Epic Games Not Satisfied With Ruling in Case Against Apple, Files Appeal

[cmaier]

As if sideloading would remove all security and turn your iToy into windows xp machine

That’s what we call a straw man. I never said that. I said it will *weaken* security, and make it more akin to a Mac.

What I don’t get is why you are so intent on removing choice? There’s already a mobile operating system that behaves precisely like you prefer. Go use that and leave the good OS for the rest of us discerning few.

 

[elptdbi3lYI]

Removing choice? Why are you so intent on not allowing choice? I have already told you that iOS with free software + macOS would be better than android + macOS.

 

[zarmanto]

The average IOS user spends TEN times more than the average Android user. ...

Quite possibly. I admit that I wasn't entirely clear on this point, but I was actually quoting an aggregate figure; that is to say, the entire iOS customer base's app spending still amounts to double that of the entire Android customer base's app spending, in spite of there being significantly more Android users overall. Reference: statista.com - Apple Users More Willing to Pay for Apps

(That older article had the best "at-a-glance" graphical representation that I could find, but it's also worth noting that more recent articles seem to suggest that the revenue statistics have actually shifted more in favor of Apple, over time.)

 

[cmaier]

Removing choice? Why are you so intent on not allowing choice? I have already told you that iOS with free software + macOS would be better than android + macOS.

Of course it removes choice. Right now you can choose between a highly secure OS and a very open OS. You want there to be only one model - the Android model.

 

[elptdbi3lYI]

Open doesn't mean less secure, actually you can achieve better security while being open, e.g. you could configure firewall and fine grain on what applications get to make incoming or outgoing connections.

 

[holupwaitaminute]

but the judge ruled that apple is not a monopoly under CA State law, which is more stringent than the federal anti-trust/monopoly laws. Please read the ruling before you make blanket statements and sound so ignorant.

It's only a matter of time. It's like the IE6 and Windows. Apple ain't winning this.

 

[cmaier]

Open doesn't mean less secure, actually you can achieve better security while being open, e.g. you could configure firewall and fine grain on what applications get to make incoming or outgoing connections.

I just explained exactly how “open” (the type of open we are talking about - allowing sideloading) makes things less secure. I pointed out that even Epic’s expert witness agreed to that. I asked you to name one security expert who agrees with you.

Still waiting.

 

[matram]

It's only a matter of time. It's like the IE6 and Windows. Apple ain't winning this.

The judge used specific limits for "market power" and "monopoly power" based in law. And noted that Apple does not reach the level of monopoly power based on their share of "global mobile game transactions".

She seemed to indicate that as other player may enter (e.g. cloud based gaming) Apples share may actually go down.

 

[elptdbi3lYI]

I just explained exactly how “open” (the type of open we are talking about - allowing sideloading) makes things less secure. I pointed out that even Epic’s expert witness agreed to that. I asked you to name one security expert who agrees with you.

Still waiting.

I do not disagree that it's less secure, I disagree that having an option to enable sideloading makes your phone less secure. Enabling it requires explicit user action disregarding your belief that it doesn't (see macOS).

 

[cmaier]

I do not disagree that it's less secure, I disagree that having an option to enable sideloading makes your phone less secure. Enabling it requires explicit user action disregarding your belief that it doesn't (see macOS).

Having the *option* makes it less secure. Epic could not find an expert to disagree with that. Any mechanism that allows sideloading to be permitted is a potential exploit.

Add to that Carl’s point that when developer’s pull out of the App Store and critical apps only become available by sideloading, the user ends up not having a choice.

Not *one* security expert agrees with you. Not a one.

 

[Homme]

Of course they appealed. Epic didn’t actually win anything since they aren’t allowed back on the App Store.

Take the L Timmy boy and cry to your Chinese overlords at tencent that you failed them.

exactly, no matter how many times I said epic lost this case to the epic fans of this world because they can’t be back in the App Store for epic to take advantage of, epic stans are in denial

If Epic can't build their own app store on iOS... can they build one on Android? It's more open, after all.

And there are about a billion more users on Android!

BTW... did I hear that iOS represented only about 6% of all Fortnite players? So it seems crazy that they're fighting soooo hard for their own iOS app store.

pretty sure there is a epic store for Android

they want to destroy iOS as a whole. That is the main reason.

In 90 days the boom gets dropped on Epic and Spotify.

Anyone who stops using the App Store purchasing system and stops paying Apple it's 15-30% is going to start to get charged hosting and network transfer fees for their apps in proportion to their data volume based on app size, downloads and updates. My estimate is that both Epic and Spotify will be charged over $10M a month if they want to stay on the store.

except epic is banned from being in the App Store even after 90 days and probably forever

 

[elptdbi3lYI]

And if critical apps are not even allowed on the app store it's okay?

 

[Ethosik]

No it doesn’t work absolutely fine on macOS. That’s why there is 10x more malware on macOS than iOS.

You said allowing sideloading doesn’t affect me, but now you admit that I lose the security of iOS and am stuck with the inferior security of macOS.

Not to mention people also forget that any and all infected devices does in some way impact everyone. Want less spam? Want less DDoS? It would be nice to get all of these zombie systems cleaned up.

 

[WiseAJ]

And if critical apps are not even allowed on the app store it's okay?

Since when is Fortnite, or anything Epic makes considered critical?

 

[elptdbi3lYI]

She meant critical for the user, maybe fortnite is critical to some

 

[FreedomPenguin]

She meant critical for the user, maybe fortnite is critical to some

they always have the option to use android.

people who want to game don't buy iMac's, is apple going to be forced to make iMacs and MacBooks stronger to let them game? force them to change their coding to allow windows games?

if I need an gas economic vehicle, should I buy a Dodge Viper and then make Dodge Viper put a hybrid in it? No. don't bend the rules, you buy what you buy and deal with it. there's a trial period you can return within so many days, its not like they are stuck with an item not knowing what they can and cannot do.

 

[WiseAJ]

It's only a matter of time. It's like the IE6 and Windows. Apple ain't winning this.

These are completely different circumstances than that case. Nothing is certain. Apple could end up losing (not to epic) or they could end up continuing to win. But you can’t compare it to Microsoft/IE anti trust/monopoly case as that was a completely different business model and market share. Windows did (and still does) have a majority market share on the PC market. Apple does not have a significant majority market share for anything they sell. (Profits ≠ Market share) and no monopoly either.

 

[WiseAJ]

She meant critical for the user, maybe fortnite is critical to some

Again how is a game critical? There is no right to play Fortnite or any other game. It doesn’t save lives, it doesn’t feed you, it’s a form of entertainment and there are many other games out there like Fortnite that aren’t banned. No one is going to die because they don’t have access to virtual fight people and then tea bag or do the floss after.

 

[Ethosik]

These are completely different circumstances than that case. Nothing is certain. Apple could end up losing (not to epic) or they could end up continuing to win. But you can’t compare it to Microsoft/IE anti trust/monopoly case as that was a completely different business model and market share. Windows did (and still does) have a majority market share on the PC market. Apple does not have a significant majority market share for anything they sell. (Profits ≠ Market share) and no monopoly either.

Also Microsoft was trying to prevent competitors (Netscape) from being developed or distributed. Same issue with the Sun Java anti-competitive behavior. It’s not even close to what this is about.

 

[elptdbi3lYI]

they always have the option to use android.

people who want to game don't buy iMac's, is apple going to be forced to make iMacs and MacBooks stronger to let them game? force them to change their coding to allow windows games?

if I need an gas economic vehicle, should I buy a Dodge Viper and then make Dodge Viper put a hybrid in it? No. don't bend the rules, you buy what you buy and deal with it. there's a trial period you can return within so many days, its not like they are stuck with an item not knowing what they can and cannot do.

I read this forum for analogies posted here.

 

[LaFrentz]

Lol ... Tim Sweany ... go ahead and keep burning your companies money. You will also have to pay a provision even when you use other ways for IAPs.

 

[iPrabhu]

Epic getting ready for another EPIC fail. Epic's lawyers should be really enjoying their new invoices.

 

[3xBoom]

This Was an Epic Fail All Along...

 

[Hammerd]

If you are tired of the Apple Walled Garden, go buy and Android phone. Tim Cook isn't holding a gun to your head making you stay on iOS.

Stupid reply. What if I love iOS and the hardware but that I’d like to be able to install softwares from various sources, just like a computer?

 

[cmaier]

Stupid reply. What if I love iOS and the hardware but that I’d like to be able to install softwares from various sources, just like a computer?

This is like “I love my girlfriend, but I wish she wouldn’t snore.” You take it or you leave it. You don’t get to decide what product a company makes; the decision you do get to make is what product you buy. If the ability to install other software is so important to you, buy an Android phone. If Android has enough shortcoming that it makes it not viable for you, then buy an iPhone. But you don’t get to force Apple to merge the two.