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Epic Games Sought Side Deal for Fortnite Prior to Lawsuit, Apple Says in Court Filing [Updated]
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Your system is both biased and rigged, but that's got nothing to do with the Epic/Apple case.
Meaning the IAP has a value? Say, perhaps 30%?
BTW, you say this as if it was a bad thing. Microtransactions in games, especially ones that are largely played by kids, are the epitome of greed IMO.
So you think that giving epic what it wants - the ability to install apps on iphones that have full access - has no technical implications that make the sandbox weaker for everyone else?
Because that’s simply false.
Meaning the IAP has a value? Say, perhaps 30%?
BTW, you say this as if it was a bad thing. Microtransactions in games, especially ones that are largely played by kids, are the epitome of greed IMO.
I agree, and I refuse to play any game that runs off IAPs. However, the developer is the one who decides whether to implement IAPs and how, and so it makes sense to consider their POV when thinking about something will be done or not, even if we may not agree with it.
So while using gift cards might be a way to circumvent Apple’s cut of IAPs (assuming they even work that way), they are going to be very inconvenient to use, and would massively lower the amount of money Epic earns. So while Epic may hate having to pay Apple their 30% cut, 70% of a lot of money is still better than 100% of a small sum, especially when it comes to something like virtual IAPs which has virtually zero marginal cost for the company to provide.
I don’t play Fortnite so I honestly don’t know. I hate game IAP though. The only thing I pay for in a game is to get rid of ads. And I only do that if it’s a game I play a lot. But I’d rather just pay up front for the game. And if Apple allowed upgrade pricing I’d probably pay when apps came out with a significant upgrade. But paying $4.99 to get additional dice rolls or coins is disgusting.
Perhaps a poor job by Cook to make a vague statement. Although, developers are (mostly) treated similarly -- there may still be occasional exceptions on a case by case -- in their associated app category/type.
What's wrong with categorization? And with the current rules, the developer decides if they are willing to share revenue. For example, originally, Netflix had the option to subscribe/sign-up within their app. Then, they took it out but linked to their Website. Apple didn't like that idea as it was a direct circumvent -- which you can arguably say is petty. In response, Apple said, as long as you (a subscription service company) don't grab new members via our efforts (i.e. people discovering the app via store search, etc) and direct customers to bypass in-app avenues, we're okay with it. So, finally, Netflix made their iOS app login only, that is, you'd get/download the app as instructed offered by Netflix's website or another source as a "Now that you have our service, here's another way to access it recommendation." Nevertheless, Netflix can return to allowing sign-up through their iOS app but then would need to accept the 70/30 (followed by 85/15) revenue sharing of users who subscribe via the app. Make sense?
Yes, and I'm not suggestiing Apple should ban any apps or developers that are following the IAP guidelines/rules. I'm trying to highlight that companies such as Epic and Scopely, just to name a couple, probably hate the 70/30 revenue share on IAPs because Apple is also benefiting from these developers' scheme. In other words, Epic is raking in tons of money with players frequently/constantly investing in virtual currency, which supporters of Epic have claimed of Apple's App Store services, beyond initial development costs Epic little or nothing extra to provide and almost entirely profit -- again, what I feel is a dirty model but that's my opinion. Basically, Epic is now yelling, Apple is no longer going to benefit from our cash cow -- completely leaving out the hypocrisy, of course.
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Agreed, though I respect that companies are allowed to offer. On the other hand, as mentioned earlier, it's the creation/addition of this type of IAP that broke the revenue system.
Lastly, again, I'm not opposed to developers pressuring Apple, Google, etc into re-evaluating the revenue share percentages.
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You are taking a very narrow view of the situation.
1. There is a lot more t support than just calling up somebody. Support is also the stability of the platform and how easy it is for a kid to make a cool game and make some serious cash without a lot of complications getting in the way.
2. Marketing is also being part of the App Store and having a well known and used by millions of users globally way of finding, paying for and distributing your app. Also seamlessly handles updates and provides details about the app which doesn't require a website. If the app is very popular Apple will feature it for free. Marketing is users knowing when they see an app on the store its likely going to be a familiar and safe user experience. Something many Apple users prefer. They don't want to fart around.
3. Xcode is far from a nightmare. I use Xcode and Android Studio and Xcode is vastly better to work with. Myself and colleagues use Xcode every day and rarely have crashes.
4. There are plenty of other materials to learn like coding boot camps that are not just WWDC. Most iOS developers I know never went to WWDC and learned iOS development just fine without it. It was just one example of a resource and some people do love attending.
5. Most payment systems are complex. If they are not there is a good chance it may be as secure. No matter what issues there may be the reality is Apple handles all the payments. No setting up a transaction service and worrying about their fees and what level fo security they provide. Users trust the Apple payment system and don't think twice about tapping a single button to make a purchase. Forcing users to fill out all payment their details is a cumbersome experience and most users would prefer to just tap and be done with it. Of course any payment system always has room for improvement but developers going out on their own to handle that isn't a better option at all.
Yeah but that's the problem here. Everybody would do that to bypass paying Apple and the app store would not earn any money anymore. Everybody would find 10,000 tutorials online about how to add in their own digital payment system to bypass Apple and the App Store would essentially be done.
The 30% fee is like a tax. We pay taxes on our income no matter how that income is made. Same for the fee. An app can be a flat fee, have an in-app purchase to unlock the app or an in-app purchase for digital goods. Either way its transactions taking place in the marketplace and Platform Apple created.
What Epic wants to do is essentially the same as working for cash under the table and not claiming it for taxes. A person could say they only made $5,000 for the year and pay practically nothing in taxes but pulled in $100,000 in cash through whatever means their imagination allows them to do so. That person made $105,000 for the year but pull a Trump and pay taxes on only $5,000.
This is why its wrong. If Epic charged $10 for Fortnite apple would make their 30% which would be a good amount. If Epic had an in-app purchase for $10 to unlock the game Apple would make a good amount on the sales. What Epic is doing is saying screw Apple. We will use their roads, infrastructure, services and avoid paying taxes. They will think they are clever and from a greedy turd perspective they may be but in the end it will increase the cost to the smaller developers which isn't fair at all.
Thats a fee to have a license to develop and use the tools to develop apps. It has absolutely nothing to do with the App Store which is for hosting, marketing and distribution of the app and future updates. You can develop apps that never make it to the store such as enterprise apps.
Maybe you misread my statement but I said every app should cost something and Apple should get a cut of that. If every app had to be $0.99 or higher and Apple got a cut of that transaction that would keep the App Store running. I think the worst thing to happen with the App Store is most apps being ”freemium” with IAP. My argument is I don’t think its fair a small percentage of apps subsidize all the free apps on the App Store. And I don’t agree with Apple’s rent seeking. Phil Schiller and Eddy Cue might think if you’re successful its because of Apple and therefore Apple deserves a cut of your business. But I think one could make an argument this was maybe true in the early days of the App Store but isn’t any more. And if they‘re going to make that argument then why doesn’t it apply to Uber or Lyft or food delivery services? Apple deserves 30% of Office 365 subs but nothing from Uber or Lyft? Also if Apple deserves a cut then do AT&T and Verizon as well? What about ISPs? None of this would be possible without the internet.
How much does IBM pay for The Weather Channel app to be hosted and distributed through the App Store? I guarantee you most people who download that app are just using the basic free app. Or how about the CNN app? Their app is free and doesn’t offer any IAP. Apple is still hosting and distributing it.
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App Store has nothing to do with delivering digital content. Using its servers as justification for charging 30% fee for digital content is just ridiculous.
There’s no winner here. This could go on for a year or more in court
The customer is the biggest loser
And what Epic fails to realize is that my iPhone is more important than their App.
The customer is the biggest loser
And what Epic fails to realize is that my iPhone is more important than their App.
You can buy v-bucks in the PC Fortnite and use them in the iOS Fortnite when you log in to them using the same account.
Is not it obvious? When Netflix streams the movie from their server to your phone, what does App Store [server] has to do with it? Nothing. But you knew it.
It should be "my phone" not "my iPhone". You can get equally good (if not better) Android phone that has everything iPhone has plus Epic games.
