Doesn't matter. It could be 45%. Epic agreed to the terms. Now they don't like it their only remedy was to volunteer to leave the App store then complain as to the why.
They chose instead to break the contract then whine about it...
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Epic Games Sought Side Deal for Fortnite Prior to Lawsuit, Apple Says in Court Filing [Updated]
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Doesn't matter. It could be 45%. Epic agreed to the terms. Now they don't like it their only remedy was to volunteer to leave the App store then complain as to the why.
They chose instead to break the contract then whine about it...
I’m on Epics side. It’s brave of them to come out like this. And it’s easy to see it from their angle - on PC and Mac they have their own Epic Games store and platform - why not on phones and mobile devices?
The truth is Apple has been going down two roads for years. In one, iOS, they have complete control. Locked down, non upgradeable technology they have complete control of with iOS devices, the newer style of Apple device.
The Mac, which comes from a different era still belongs to the ethos of an open playing field and upgradeable tech, which Apple just aren’t able to have full control of, even tho they try to shoehorn in anything they can’t like soldered in hard drives and FileVault protection, pushing everyone to the Mac App Store.
And while people appear excited about ARM, I think Apples true intention, tho we would see it yet, is a Mac that winds up as locked in as iOS devices.
I hope there is some movement here due to Epics injunction. I’m all for Apple continuing to be awesome, but they also need to be reigned in from time to time, too.
The truth is Apple has been going down two roads for years. In one, iOS, they have complete control. Locked down, non upgradeable technology they have complete control of with iOS devices, the newer style of Apple device.
The Mac, which comes from a different era still belongs to the ethos of an open playing field and upgradeable tech, which Apple just aren’t able to have full control of, even tho they try to shoehorn in anything they can’t like soldered in hard drives and FileVault protection, pushing everyone to the Mac App Store.
And while people appear excited about ARM, I think Apples true intention, tho we would see it yet, is a Mac that winds up as locked in as iOS devices.
I hope there is some movement here due to Epics injunction. I’m all for Apple continuing to be awesome, but they also need to be reigned in from time to time, too.
You're missing the point. Those examples are not the same as Epic. Apart from processing the payment, Apple has nothing to do with in app purchases. And, Apple doesn't even need to process the payment (which most payment companies charge 3% or less, not 30%) when Epic can accept and process payment for a much cheaper price. The games do not run on Apple servers. Apple does nothing after I've downloaded the app onto MY device. They delivered it to me...that's all. If they want to charge devs 25 cents to transfer a few MB's to me, fine. But not 30% of BILLIONS.
That’s an absolute lie. Apple provides the sdk. They provide this operating system. They provide servers for the transaction. They provide the customer base. They provide a LOT.
The phone is my property not Appe's. As far as SDK is concerned, Epic would not necessarily need the one from Apple if Apple did not require that only their SDK can be used. Nor does Epic need App Store. In this case Apple first demands that everybody use their tools and then sets whatever price they want. That's not normal and should be fixed legislatively.
Because apple and google are entitled to have their own business plans.
Unless I'm mistaken (very possible), Fortnite gets updated like every 2 weeks (hence the name) with new game content ("seasons") that allows players to continue all playing on synced servers. So unless Epic has found a way to allow these updates to happen in spite of Apple's revocation, the app will be dead-in-the-water within a couple of weeks. Maybe I should ask my nephews, they play non-stop.
The odds are always stacked in favour of the house. It's always been that way and always will be.
Personally I think IAPs in games should be banned, but the devs and Apple make far too much money off kids for that to happen.
Personally I think IAPs in games should be banned, but the devs and Apple make far too much money off kids for that to happen.
Are you for real?
In what universe is anyone who makes BILLIONS of dollars from selling digital "assets" such as dance moves, "Brave" when they deliberately and methodically break the terms and conditions they had previously agreed upon?
Epic does not need any of this from Apple. Apple requires them to use Apple store, API, etc. The only thing Apple testing does is to guarantee that the app does not break Apple rules (which are there to maximize Apple profits)
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**** Apple.
Apple thinks it is doing the world a favor by providing Xcode, the APIs for development etc. Let them not provide any of these and then lets see how far can the Apple ecosystem get. If it is a pain to develop apps on the iPhone, do you think devs will be motivated enough to develop apps for the phone? If there are no apps, will anyone buy Apple's overpriced phones?
Apple is just greedy here and in their own echo chamber. They might have provided APIs but it is devs who assemble those APIs and combine them with their artistic vision to make money off it. Apple has already made money by selling the consumer his phone, charging the dev his annual fee and perhaps a small, competitive fee for payment processing.
30% for Xcode, APIs, App Store etc...that is just ridiculous. These things exist so that Apple can make its products more attractive to devs and consumer alike...and therefore sell more of these devices. They do not need to leech of the devs work once the sale is made
Apple thinks it is doing the world a favor by providing Xcode, the APIs for development etc. Let them not provide any of these and then lets see how far can the Apple ecosystem get. If it is a pain to develop apps on the iPhone, do you think devs will be motivated enough to develop apps for the phone? If there are no apps, will anyone buy Apple's overpriced phones?
Apple is just greedy here and in their own echo chamber. They might have provided APIs but it is devs who assemble those APIs and combine them with their artistic vision to make money off it. Apple has already made money by selling the consumer his phone, charging the dev his annual fee and perhaps a small, competitive fee for payment processing.
30% for Xcode, APIs, App Store etc...that is just ridiculous. These things exist so that Apple can make its products more attractive to devs and consumer alike...and therefore sell more of these devices. They do not need to leech of the devs work once the sale is made
What a load of crap this comment is
That's like saying everytime you buy an item on your debit/credit card in a shop the bank takes a 30% each time as well on top, bypass using the card and you may as well be stealing from the bank.
Apple has a monopoly and is acting no different to how IE was in the late 90's/00's. Apple will pay for it eventually.
That's like saying everytime you buy an item on your debit/credit card in a shop the bank takes a 30% each time as well on top, bypass using the card and you may as well be stealing from the bank.
Apple has a monopoly and is acting no different to how IE was in the late 90's/00's. Apple will pay for it eventually.
Personally, I feel that this is bigger than any one app or developer.
What is really at stake here is App Store viability and vitality, both of which are important to Apple and Apple users, but which the critics seem to be all too ready to cast out in the same of some arbitrary notion of "openness" and "freedom".
One cannot deny that the App Store has benefited hundreds of millions of people and millions of developers. The App Store is an equalizing force which has made it possible for an independent developer to reach a billion Apple users, by virtue of Apple having aggregated the best users (thanks to the iPhone) and making it extremely easy for them to spend money (thanks to iTunes having all their payment information on hand, and biometrics making the buying experience fairly seamless).
What Epic wants is to be about to go around all this and have their own App Store. Regardless of whatever Epic says about wanting to fight for the benefit of the average developer, I don't believe their words one bit. They aren’t going against the App Store to empower users or developers. The idea that Epic is looking out for the user is just a ploy. Instead, Epic is focused on grabbing more power. As such, it's not surprising that Epic isn't going after Sony (since Sony has a small stake in Epic). Epic of all companies knows very that the future of gaming is on mobile. That's where the money is, and it's controlled by Apple and Google.
Over the weekend, it has become painfully clear that Epic isn't so much going after what they viewed as unfair or illegal App Store guidelines as much as they are looking for power on mobile operating systems. Epic sees the power Apple wields with their ecosystem, a power that Apple has painstakingly built up over the past decade, and Epic just wants to barge in and help itself to a generous serving of the pie just like that just because.
I continue to maintain that the current design of the iOS App Store results in the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of users. Apple continues to focus on doing what is best for consumers, and it is in consumers' best interests that the App Store not become a loss leader that is being propped up by cash from elsewhere, or see users abandoning the App Store and seeking apps elsewhere (eg: alternate app stores).
In this context, I think I am starting to understand why Apple is hesitatant to allow game streaming platforms like xCloud in their App Store. While it's probably more similar to Netflix as far as technology is concerned, Apple probably feels that such services have the potential to eventually become their own app stores some day. Which then goes back to my original statement about them possibly disrupting the viability and vitality of the App Store.
Apple doesn't have a monopoly in smartphones or (by extension) app distribution. What Apple does have a monopoly in is a premium user experience, and this really says more about the state of the competition than it does about Apple.
Epic's "I want to burn down the current world order and replace it with my own" argument isn't finding much traction or resonating with many people, and it shows how over the weekend, even the comments on this matter have largely become more positive in favour of Apple. They are going about it all wrong, and while Apple probably doesn't want to appear too vengeful so as not to come across as being a big bully, I wouldn't be averse to them making it hurt for Epic just a little bit more.
I don’t know about that analogy, I think your kinda stretching it too far there. I mean, I do believe Apple should be more flexible with Epic... but then again Epic is kinda asking for too much.
guess what - every time you buy something with a credit card, the bank DOES take a percentage.
Epic is arguing that the terms are illegal. If the terms are found to be illegal, it's irrelevant that they have been agreed upon.
I'm asking you to do "X" in my favor and consider doing the same to others... what happens if Apple is willing to do the deal but say no in consider the same deal for other developers... will Epic not take the deal???
As a full time professional software develope, I just have to say, you literally have no idea what you are talking about. Good luck doing ANYTHING without APIs. Good luck connecting to the network, the file system, the GPU, the touchscreen, creating notifications, etc.
It is literally impossible to make a functional app without device APIs. You can write your own... you just have to build your own own device/drivers/kernel/os and plumb them all together.
Heck, just losing access to the Metal api would gimp like 95% of all games on the App Store.
I totally get why people are against Apple. And I totally think 30% is a bit high. But that doesn’t make it wrong or unjustified. And whether Apple is right or wrong, Epic is 100% wrong in this instance.
More this drags on, more likely that judge in this case will force both parties into arbitration, not court case.
And this is like Apple having fallout with nvidia. Epic will likely not come back to Apple ecosystem after this, even if this case is settled or Epic wins the case.
And this is like Apple having fallout with nvidia. Epic will likely not come back to Apple ecosystem after this, even if this case is settled or Epic wins the case.
If the App Store offers so much value to the developers and users, where is the problem in it to have to compete with alternatives on iOS?
The fear of competition is IMHO in itself a sign of lack of confidence.
The problem is that Epic, and it’s devoted followers here, are not arguing that 30% is too high. They are arguing that it should be free - Epic should be free to pay NOTHING.
And, btw, 30% is the industry standard, and is less than what networks pay cable providers, less that what movie studios pay movie theaters, etc.
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Unless there is an arbitration clause in the agreement, a judge can’t force arbitration.
Such an Epic Fail. How could Sweeney not know Apple would use the attempt from June.
Definitely flawed communication between Leadership and Legal at Epic.
Sweeney will be gone by the end of the year. Millions of children being used by a Man Child. I fully support Apple on this one.
Definitely flawed communication between Leadership and Legal at Epic.
Sweeney will be gone by the end of the year. Millions of children being used by a Man Child. I fully support Apple on this one.
Yeah, I think your spot on about this. And with your point that future gaming is mobile while Google and Apple are the gatekeepers. That’s why Microsoft is pushing xCloud so much and I’m definitely watching that closely. I have an Android phone.. so Apple withholding xCloud doesn’t really affect me much.
But this idea that Apple wants to protect the disruption of their App Store seems to hold up. They have built this platform and provided a “premium” experience to customers, it makes sense to want to protect it.