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What other choice do they have? If you want to develop to iOS customers, you are forced into Apple's terms, fair or not. So now they are trying, legally, to get Apple to make changes. Change isn't easy, as we've found this year, but we shall see.
If I want a Ferrari, I am forced to pay for it, fair or not. So instead I steal one while filing suit demanding that I should get one on my own terms.


You seem to assume that Epic has some god-given right to sell to iOS customers on whatever terms it prefers. No such right exists.
 
Who do you think runs the servers of the App Store? Who do you think writes the APIs developers use...?
Apple may not be creating the content, but their software is what facilitates it being delivered to you.
So you think that storing and downloading a tiny amount of data (the app itself) is worth 30% of BILLIONS of dollars?

Sure, Apple writes the API's because they want to force developers to use and access only the features of the hardware in the way that Apple wants them to. The whole system from development to sale is controlled 100% by Apple. It's sad, really.
 
Epic developed a game and sold it to me. Why exactly does Apple deserve a cut? And if it did, then why don't they deserve similar cut for Epic games on Mac?
Because Epic may have sold a game to you, but you bought it via the App Store, for which Apple pays for the servers, APIs, code, security, testing etc... All the same reasons Epic's Game Store takes a 12% cut of any game sold on its platform from that game's developer.
Again, you can argue Apple's cut is too large (I would) but arguing there isn't a reason for a cut is pretty ridiculous.
 
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So you think that storing and downloading a tiny amount of data (the app itself) is worth 30% of BILLIONS of dollars?

Sure, Apple writes the API's because they want to force developers to use and access only the features of the hardware in the way that Apple wants them to. The whole system from development to sale is controlled 100% by Apple. It's sad, really.

Apple does a lot more than storing and transmitting that tiny amount of data. Take apple away, and there would be no app store, no concentration of customers willing to buy apps (i mean look at android where customers don’t pay for apps), no sdks for the apps to target, no operating system for the apps to run on, and devices for the operating system to run on.
 
So now they are trying, legally, to get Apple to make changes.

What????!!!!

They deliberately and methodically acting in an underhanded way to circumvent he legal agreement they had with Apple.

Then, when Apple acted in accordance with the agreement, Epic sued them.

They're not acting "legally" - they're trying to use the legal system to force Apple to make changes - just to improve their bottom line.
 
This is completely incorrect. Terminating the developer accounts will cause any apps distributed by them to stop working. That is the whole point—as it stands, Fortnite is not available for new "purchase" for those who have never downloaded it before, but anyone who has can continue using it, including the rule-breaking alternate payment system. Terminating the developer accounts end the ability to use the app, therefore ending the rule violation.
You are absolutely wrong. Developer accounts are terminated all the time because developers leave the business, sometimes forget to make their $99 payment (my boss gets two reminders from Apple and three from employees every year so this doesn't happen :) The apps continue working. Services provided by Apple stop working. That would be downloads, in-app purchases, push notifications, iCloud storage. If the app is fine with that, it continues to work.
 
The email was clearly written so it could be used in a later lawsuit for what they hope will be an advantage.

The only part of that email that appears to have been thrown in for the lawsuit was the 'open it to all devs' bit, knowing full well that there are very few companies that would actually be able to take advantage of such a thing. The rest of it is Epic being Epic, which is to say continuing their crusade to make themselves the center of the gaming universe with all profits flowing to them.
 
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Epic developed a game and sold it to me. Why exactly does Apple deserve a cut? And if it did, then why don't they deserve similar cut for Epic games on Mac?

The same way Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo ALSO take a 30% slice.

Oddly Sweeny's not said anything about that to you Epic sympathizers.
 
If I want a Ferrari, I am forced to pay for it, fair or not. So instead I steal one while filing suit demanding that I should get one on my own terms.


You seem to assume that Epic has some god-given right to sell to iOS customers on whatever terms it prefers. No such right exists.
I'm so tired of people using examples like this. No one is asking for a free game. No one is stealing anything.

Why doesn't Epic have a right (it has nothing to do with God) to sell it's own product and collect funds through it's own payment system? And why doesn't Epic have a right to have a choice how it wants to distribute it's product?

You assume Apple has some "god-given right" to 30% of everyone's hard work. Once the app is on a device no longer owned by Apple, they shouldn't collect a dime for anything that is purchased through the app. Maybe, instead of having free apps, dev's start charging and let Apple take their 30% of that, and IAP's are paid for either through the App Store (30% cut) or directly through the dev (no cut for Apple)? Seems fair.
 
So you think that storing and downloading a tiny amount of data (the app itself) is worth 30% of BILLIONS of dollars?

Sure, Apple writes the API's because they want to force developers to use and access only the features of the hardware in the way that Apple wants them to. The whole system from development to sale is controlled 100% by Apple. It's sad, really.
No, my point was that Apple delivers content, contrary to the OP's comment to which I replied.You brought up the 30%, but since you have: I never said it was worth 30% (in fact, I've repeatedly said I personally think it's too high), but the argument that Apple doesn't deserve anything is a non-starter to me. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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They have a LEGAL right. As do Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo AND Google.

They all charge the same 30%.
As do Steam and as do Epic, who charge a commission of 12% on the Epic Game Store with the exact same legal underpinning: you agreed to it when you signed up. No amount of whining changes that.
 
Apple does a lot more than storing and transmitting that tiny amount of data. Take apple away, and there would be no app store, no concentration of customers willing to buy apps (i mean look at android where customers don’t pay for apps), no sdks for the apps to target, no operating system for the apps to run on, and devices for the operating system to run on.
Take the internet away and nothing would work. So your ISP should get 30% too, according to your logic?

There is a million miles of middle ground between how things are now and "take apple away". No one is suggesting Apple go away.
 
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Take the internet away and nothing would work. So your ISP should get 30% too, according to your logic?

There is a million miles of middle ground between how things are now and "take apple away". No one is suggesting Apple go away.
If my internet provider wanted to try it, they could.

This is a standard business model - cable companies get 50% of HBO subscriptions, movie theater chains get 50% of ticket sales, malls get 15% of sales revenues. It works like this in every industry.
 
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Take the internet away and nothing would work. So your ISP should get 30% too, according to your logic?

There is a million miles of middle ground between how things are now and "take apple away". No one is suggesting Apple go away.
If your ISP made you sign a document saying you had to send them 30%, then yes, you would have to pay them. But they don't, so you don't have to.
What you can't do is sign that document, then expect to get round it, then shake your fists when you don't get your way. If they didn't want to pay Apple what they asked for, they were welcome not to use the App Store...
 
No, my point was that Apple delivers content, contrary to the OP's comment to which I replied.You brought up the 30%, but since you have: I never said it was worth 30% (in fact, I've repeatedly said I personally think it's too high), but the argument that Apple doesn't deserve anything is a non-starter to me. 🤷🏻‍♂️
There is that argument that Apple deserves something, and there is the argument that there should be other ways to deliver content that doesn't cost 30% (or anything at all outside the costs the dev pays to process payments).
 
Take the internet away and nothing would work. So your ISP should get 30% too, according to your logic?

If that was a legal agreement that all sides agreed upon. Sure.

You don't seem to grasp this simple fact: Epic agreed to Apple's terms and conditions.

Then they broke them and are mad Apple's doing EXACTLY what they said they would do if Epic breached the agreement.
 
Can somebody explain how this Restraining Order thing would even work? The way i read it is as though you are a married person and have an affair, your partner kicks you out the house because you broke the contract of your marriage and so you file a restraining order to allow you to share the same house. I just seems completely backwards to me.
Apple announced they want to cancel Epic's developer contract, and Epic doesn't like it. So Epic goes to a court and tells them "tell Apple they can't do that". The judge can refuse to do this. But if they agree, the judge will likely say something like "Apple can't cancel the contract until a court has properly decided about this. But I recognise that this restraining order may cost Apple x million dollars in damages. So to get the restraining order, Epic must pay $x million into escrow, and if Apple wins the court case, the court will use that money to pay Apple's damages, and there's nothing Epic can do about it. If Apple loses, Epic gets their money back".
 
No, my point was that Apple delivers content, contrary to the OP's comment to which I replied.You brought up the 30%, but since you have: I never said it was worth 30% (in fact, I've repeatedly said I personally think it's too high), but the argument that Apple doesn't deserve anything is a non-starter to me. 🤷🏻‍♂️

It's not really content that apple delivers, it's customers. Apples entire business is built on the idea of cultivating loyal customers who keep spending money. Thus despite their smaller market share, every app developer wants to be on iOS to have access to Apples customers. But now that Apple has grown so big, they don't think it's fair that they don't get that access for free.

Apple engaging in antitrust and anti-competitive practices would have raised rates, and would have punished app makers who refused to make things exclusive to iOS. They would charge more to access more useful tiers of APIs, they would offer preferred developers the ability to be preinstalled, etc.

Realistically this entire debate has nothing to do with the 30% and everything to do with the customers. Epic wants to completely bypass Apple and have direct access and interaction with customers and more than that they want the freedom to also give others access to those customers for a (slightly smaller) fee.

Apple's customers are valuable, so it's understandable that Epic wants this, but I don't see how anyone can argue they are entitled to it. It wasn't easy for Apple to create such a large, loyal and spendy customer base, and THAT is the value that apple provides. Every developer and app maker knows it, they just like to avoid the issue because its counter to their arguments.
 
I'm so tired of people using examples like this. No one is asking for a free game. No one is stealing anything.

Yes they are. Epic is stealing the use of Apple’s SDKs, developer resources, App Store, etc., by not paying what they are contractually obligated to pay.

Why doesn't Epic have a right (it has nothing to do with God) to sell it's own product and collect funds through it's own payment system? And why doesn't Epic have a right to have a choice how it wants to distribute it's product?

They have that right. But that right ends on someone else’s properTy. Guess what - if Epic wants to distribute its product by selling CDs on my front lawn, they are NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT. Apple has rights, that stem from intellectual property law and contract. Epic’s “rights” don’t trump those.


You assume Apple has some "god-given right" to 30% of everyone's hard work. Once the app is on a device no longer owned by Apple, they shouldn't collect a dime for anything that is purchased through the app.

Except that even after apple sells the device, the copyright to the software still belongs to Apple. ANd you are trying to force apple to change its software, against its own will, to do things that apple doesn’t want it to do.

I would like the Mona Lisa to have a mustache - does that mean I have a legal right to go to the Louvre and paint one?
 
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Who do you think runs the servers of the App Store? Who do you think writes the APIs developers use...?
Apple may not be creating the content, but their software is what facilitates it being delivered to you.
Incorrect. Video streaming, games etc. are delivered by Netflix, Epic etc. servers. Apple has nothing to do with it.
 
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