Epic Games Submits Fortnite to U.S. App Store

[surferfb]

You and me know that a PC virus cannot affect a Mac (and the opposite), but the message sent to non-tech people was different; it was "no virus here".

And it was largely correct. 99% of viruses were for PCs. And had you asked anyone at Apple “can Macs get a virus” they would have said yes.

I’m glad you brought up non-tech people though, because what you are advocating for is significantly worse for the vast majority of non-technical users! Moving apps off the store will result in many falling for spoofs of the Facebook, Epic, Spotify etc. websites that leads them to download malware and/or spyware on their devices. Which is bad for Apple, bad for its customers.

There’s a reason Android is significantly worse from a security perspective. Users who side load are 80% more likely to have viruses running on their phones! Apple is absolutely correct in preventing it.

 

[I7guy]

They already have platforms! It's only a$$le that should go away between a user who bought a phone and a software developer!

Then let the user wipe the phone and load their own operating system. Why bother with iOS?

 

[I7guy]

Europe is already forcing apple to open up the app store and USA is doing the same with a new bill (app store freedom act), apple can start their own country if they want to force anything.

Apple has enough money to do that. Good luck getting this passed. The bills sponsor even admits what we have been saying about the DMA all along.

 

[wbeasley]

I love Apple but they got greedy with 30%. If it was 15% for everyone, not just small businesses, no one would complain.

if it's more than 0 people will complain.
And I'm beginning to think even then some would find a way to still complain...

30% is still a lot better than regular store distribution was. Wasteful physical products and marketing materials that had shelf lives. Middlemen who exist solely to add their cut to the end price. The AppStore centralised all this. It's why Nintendo and Sony push software sales online. They make more than putting a box on a shelf. They tolerate physical stores to get hardware into buyers hands. The real money maker is downloadable content.

 

[aidler]

Good news for Fortnite players.

 

[Stuwil]

I don’t follow your “just think about it” logic, but glad you’re so confident! We’ll see what happens.

Because surferfb probably in your opinion and certain others then epic should not be allowed back on the iOS App Store because according to some they went against Apple’s terms got kicked off the App Store and then took them to court and as a consequence of that then that is why epic should not be allowed back on the iOS App Store
is that correct
Now if that is the case
Then that is why Tim Sweeney is confident they will be back on

 

[davide_eu]

And it was largely correct. 99% of viruses were for PCs. And had you asked anyone at Apple “can Macs get a virus” they would have said yes.

I’m glad you brought up non-tech people though, because what you are advocating for is significantly worse for the vast majority of non-technical users! Moving apps off the store will result in many falling for spoofs of the Facebook, Epic, Spotify etc. websites that leads them to download malware and/or spyware on their devices. Which is bad for Apple, bad for its customers.

There’s a reason Android is significantly worse from a security perspective. Users who side load are 80% more likely to have viruses running on their phones! Apple is absolutely correct in preventing it.

And non-tech people will continue to download from the standard store. Pretty simple.

 

[wbeasley]

Because surferfb probably in your opinion and certain others then epic should not be allowed back on the iOS App Store because according to some they went against Apple’s terms got kicked off the App Store and then took them to court and as a consequence of that then that is why epic should not be allowed back on the iOS App Store
is that correct
Now if that is the case
Then that is why Tim Sweeney is confident they will be back on

a: Epic DID break the rules they signed up for. not "according to some".
b: Sweeny is always confident of winning. LOL

Why do Epic feel so much need to be in the store at all?
They've been out of it long enough and spent so much to get back in.

What a pity they just didnt play by the rules and sell their tokens outside the AppStore which worked without fuss...
Spotify is the same. I dont see how linking to a payment option from the app is going to result in ten times for sales.

The bad brand image will follow them. I ditched Spotify partly because of their behaviour and they didnt deliver the higher quality music they promised more than two years ago.

 

[davide_eu]

Then let the user wipe the phone and load their own operating system. Why bother with iOS?

Because the OS was bundled in the product... is there a standard procedure to remove the os?

 

[sdf]

It’s not impossible that it would be approved, but Apple’s only direct motivation for allowing these jokers back in the store would be a share of the money, which they’re not getting. Unless they feel this would impact how the courts treat them, I don’t see them doing this.

 

[wbeasley]

And non-tech people will continue to download from the standard store. Pretty simple.

And tech people, if they really want to download whatever, are savvy enough to know Apple devices dont make that easy and that Android devices exist if thats what they really want.

I dont like my Hisense projector having a SPDIF port but wont output audio to is and the HDMI port at the same time.
Every other TV I've used does allow this. But I can only ask them to restore this functionality. I cant demand it. Sometimes that's just life.

 

[wbeasley]

Because the OS was bundled in the product... is there a standard procedure to remove the os?

so if Apple provide a "wipe OS" function you'll be happy?

then you can load whatever you like.
Someone might port Android to it for you to load.

I'd be happy with that.

In fact, I'd be happy if Apple gave you a choice on first boot to select iOS or Android.
Would get around a lot of the pesky legal cases...

I'd still pick iOS.

 

[surferfb]

Because surferfb probably in your opinion and certain others then epic should not be allowed back on the iOS App Store because according to some they went against Apple’s terms got kicked off the App Store and then took them to court

According to some? Those are the facts of the case agreed upon by everyone, including Epic, and most importantly, the judge.

and as a consequence of that then that is why epic should not be allowed back on the iOS App Store
is that correct

Just as a point of clarification, I don’t care one way or the other whether Epic is let on the store or not. It’s entirely Apple’s call. I know I wouldn’t be inclined to let them back on, but Apple could have different priorities or different reasons to want to do so. And that’s their choice - their store, their rules.

Now if that is the case
Then that is why Tim Sweeney is confident they will be back on

As to why Sweeney is so confident? I don’t think he is. Sweeney has been doing everything with an eye to PR. I suspect he wants to make Apple reject him so he can use it to “prove” big bad Apple needs to be reigned in (how dare Apple not want to do business with someone who lied to them, tried to cheat them and then sued them). Since the judge said Apple wasn’t a monopoly and didn’t have to offer alternate app stores, he needs to try to get them some other way, so he’ll push and try to get the public on his side while his lobbyists to try to get that Congresswoman’s bill passed.

 

[surferfb]

Because the OS was bundled in the product... is there a standard procedure to remove the os?

Apple isn’t obligated to help you use their product in a way that wasn’t intended. They can’t stop you from doing so, but they don’t have to make it easy for you.

Anyone who wants to can jailbreak their phone and install apps from anywhere. They can do that today.

 

[jz0309]

Because surferfb probably in your opinion and certain others then epic should not be allowed back on the iOS App Store because according to some they went against Apple’s terms got kicked off the App Store and then took them to court and as a consequence of that then that is why epic should not be allowed back on the iOS App Store
is that correct
Now if that is the case
Then that is why Tim Sweeney is confident they will be back on

I look at it differently:
Epic was found guilty in court to willfully and knowingly breaking rules set forth in a business agreement.
Therefore they have proven to be untrustworthy.
Personally, I do not want to conduct business with an untrustworthy entity, I hope Apple feels the same.

If at any point Epic would have come forth and said something along the lines "we did wrong and apologize" - that might have changed my mind, but that didn't happen.

 

[Stuwil]

if it's more than 0 people will complain.
And I'm beginning to think even then some would find a way to still complain...

30% is still a lot better than regular store distribution was. Wasteful physical products and marketing materials that had shelf lives. Middlemen who exist solely to add their cut to the end price. The AppStore centralised all this. It's why Nintendo and Sony push software sales online. They make more than putting a box on a shelf. They tolerate physical stores to get hardware into buyers hands. The real money maker is downloadable content.

Because they only bring out a new generation of consoles every 7 years
So that is why downloadable content is important in that industry
Where as for Apple it’s different
People don’t think it should be zero but it should be realistic

 

[Paddle1]

Interesting. Based on the image provided below Epic's intention appears to be allowing Apple's in-app purchases alongside their separate payment system. That in itself is an incentive for Apple to allow the app. Both companies would be profiting from this move.

 

[Stuwil]

I look at it differently:
Epic was found guilty in court to willfully and knowingly breaking rules set forth in a business agreement.
Therefore they have proven to be untrustworthy.
Personally, I do not want to conduct business with an untrustworthy entity, I hope Apple feels the same.

If at any point Epic would have come forth and said something along the lines "we did wrong and apologize" - that might have changed my mind, but that didn't happen.

Because jz0309
What that essentially says is this
How dare you challenge our authority
And as a consequence of that then you will not get back on our iOS store
So then that essentially says this to any developer that if you dare challenge us then you know the consequences you will face
That is why certain people need to look at the bigger picture
In regards to epic getting back on the iOS App Store
It doesn’t matter if you think that epic where wrong in your opinion it’s about optics

 

[jinnj]

It's a known quantity. It's not well-regarded (you could say looked down upon) in the desktop gaming space, Steam forums make that abundantly clear. It's skibidy toilet in game form.

Actually in the mobile space they were dying as most of those users eventually migrate over to console/PC. This was the reason Epic decided that it was the right time to go after Apple and Google for the same practices (and fees) that Sony, XBOX and Nintendo have on their platforms.

 

[surferfb]

Because jz0309
What that essentially says is this
How dare you challenge our authority
And as a consequence of that then you will not get back on our iOS store
So then that essentially says this to any developer that if you dare challenge us then you know the consequences you will face
That is why certain people need to look at the bigger picture
In regards to epic getting back on the iOS App Store
It doesn’t matter if you think that epic where wrong in your opinion it’s about optics

No, what it’s saying is “if you intentionally break the rules to cheat us, you have to deal with the consequences.”

Spotify has been just as vocal about how bad Apple’s actions are and how they should be regulated - to the point of working with the EU to specifically get parts of Apple’s rules deemed illegal in the EU - and Spotify hasn’t been kicked off the store.

 

[Stuwil]

According to some? Those are the facts of the case agreed upon by everyone, including Epic, and most importantly, the judge.


Just as a point of clarification, I don’t care one way or the other whether Epic is let on the store or not. It’s entirely Apple’s call. I know I wouldn’t be inclined to let them back on, but Apple could have different priorities or different reasons to want to do so. And that’s their choice - their store, their rules.



As to why Sweeney is so confident? I don’t think he is. Sweeney has been doing everything with an eye to PR. I suspect he wants to make Apple reject him so he can use it to “prove” big bad Apple needs to be reigned in (how dare Apple not want to do business with someone who lied to them, tried to cheat them and then sued them). Since the judge said Apple wasn’t a monopoly and didn’t have to offer alternate app stores, he needs to try to get them some other way, so he’ll push and try to get the public on his side while his lobbyists to try to get that Congresswoman’s bill passed.

I said according to some in case somebody amends the wording

What do you think will happen if epic gets rejected it will shine a light on their business practices
So it is essentially not worth rejecting their developer application sooner or later

 

[jz0309]

Because jz0309
What that essentially says is this
How dare you challenge our authority
And as a consequence of that then you will not get back on our iOS store
So then that essentially says this to any developer that if you dare challenge us then you know the consequences you will face
That is why certain people need to look at the bigger picture
In regards to epic getting back on the iOS App Store
It doesn’t matter if you think that epic where wrong in your opinion it’s about optics

"How dare you challenge our authority"
what part of the court ruling do you not understand? They were found guilty, simple as that, and final.

I have worked with quite a few purchasing managers in my career, if they are finding out that a supplier for instance has broken an agreement willfully, they are blacklisted. simple as that, doesn't matter what "optics" say or what outside people think.

But, we have different viewpoints nd that's fine, let's just agree to disagree.

 

[I7guy]

Because the OS was bundled in the product... is there a standard procedure to remove the os?

Going on theme of it’s your phone, do what you want with it. Was my point.

 

[Stevez67]

You are right, anyone saying that doesn't understand computer... it was told by a$$le: https://www.wired.com/2012/06/mac-viruses/

At some point I have to go to their webpage? It's my dream! I hope it will happen soon, I don't want to use "a store"... I'm not a kid, I don't need them... let's get rid of the store asap...

You sound like a little kid on the playground threatening to take your ball and go home if you can't have your way.

 

[Abazigal]

Because there is a big difference now
You need to look at the bigger picture that is why Tim Sweeney is confident epic will be back on sooner or later

Nobody says they are under any obligation to bring them back however it’s not going to achieve anything in the long term if they reject epic from being on the App Store

You are talking about the same Apple who, for well over a decade, refused to use Nvidia graphics cards over an issue that happened in 2008.

The bigger picture, in my opinion, is that the judge’s ruling is a violation of Apple’s property rights, hence the appeal.

There is still a chance that all of this gets reversed on appeal, and until all avenues are exhausted, I don’t see Apple having to allow Fortnite back into the App Store. It’s all one-sided wishful thinking on Epic’s side.

Maybe you are right. Maybe it’s not to Apple’s advantage to continue banning Fortnite, and maybe it’s something Apple should just continue to do regardless. Let it be a hill Apple dies on. Even if their lawsuit ultimately fails, let it be so Epic has no place in this new world order that they helped usher in.