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Amazon's app store works differently, from what I remember - Amazon buys X copies of an app and sells it at whatever price they want. I have no idea how that works for DL content. IMO that's a worse model for app developers, but I guess it works for those on Amazon's app store.

This is exactly what Apple could do if it lost this case. Fortnite would still be shut out. Lots of independent developers would now need to sell Apple on the merits of the app. Many more would be out of work. The plethora of free apps would be gone. And this would likely be completely legal.
 
I can't help make note of how much Epic screwed its users here. By intentionally breaking the app rules, they got kicked out. Theoretically, they could have just sued Apple for monopolistic or whatever arguments, without breaking the rules (and doing so in an underhanded way). If they had gone that route, not sure a judge would let Apple pull them from the App Stores while the case played out. It seems like this whole approach has been sensationalist (i.e. the "1984" commercial), rather than strategic.

I suspect they thought that the timing was good to launch this kind of an attack (Congressional Hearings, Spotify) And with the 1984 commercial in hand they attacked. Hard to say if the strategy was bad or that Apple was ready and the attack failed.
 
Apple would never lose a Pricing Battle with Epic OR any company.

There is NO risk there to Apple.

The ONLY risk to Apple is if some company can prove that Apple "intentionally suppressed" third-party App Innovation (for their own benefit) !

For that case, the risk to Apple is extremely high !

If proven, they will lose control / ownership of the App Store !
 
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they should offer to sell all the Fortnite objects inside the Mac version without the apple store tax, and with the 30% for the iOS version.... Fortnite wins, and Apple also wins cause they are promoting playing on Mac...

That would require re-instatement of their developer account though wouldn't it ?
 
Long time Fortnite player. Epic will never get another dime from me. They embarrassed themselves with their stupid #FreeFortnite and deserve to lose. Play stupid games (breach of contract) win stupid prizes. :rolleyes:

Fortnite won't even be relevant a year from now, and everyone will be off to the next new game.

U mean like among us or fall guys
 
“The 30 percent rate that Apple collects is the ‘industry rate’ collected by PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo, Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, Google, and more. It's all 30 percent and you just want to gloss over it," the judge said.

Case In Point
 
I think Epic over played their hand. They thought Apple would be more hurt, and they didn't think Apple would revoke their developer account.
 
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The day that Epic decided that 70% wasn't enough.
They’re literally going to bankrupt themselves over this, and financially win or lose it isn’t even a drop on a bucket for Apple. No clue what they hope to gain from such a dumb battle
 
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I read a twitter thread of the hearing. Epic really doesn't seem at all prepared for this even though they are the ones that asked for it. I think they just assumed that it would be easy and they wouldn't have to provide any real evidence and just say "Apple is a Monopoly" several times.

I also love how the judge commented how no one is entitled to make billions of dollars.
I have the impression that Epic never planned to win in a court of law. The plan was to press Apple in the court of public opinion, using Fortnite as leverage. Since Apple has more to lose by allowing rival App stores than Epic has to gain by Fortnite on iPad, I expect Apple will prevail, and Fortnite will not return on Apple platforms.
 
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“The 30 percent rate that Apple collects is the ‘industry rate’ collected by PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo, Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, Google, and more. It's all 30 percent and you just want to gloss over it," the judge said.

Case In Point

But YGR also questioned why Apple set the rate at 30% in the first place, noting that Apple was the key innovator of the mobile app market and that many other companies had simply followed Apple's lead. Claiming it's the "industry rate" when the judge is convinced that you help create/form that rate isn't the best defense. YGR was seeking a more concrete reason, and I am sure Apple will formulate one if this goes to a bench trial.

The "because I say so" argument may work well at home, but not necessarily in court haha
 
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Apple would never lose a Pricing Battle with Epic OR any company.

There is NO risk there to Apple.

The ONLY risk to Apple is if some company can prove that Apple "intentionally suppressed" third-party App Innovation (for their own benefit) !

For that case, the risk to Apple is extremely high !

If proven, they will lose control / ownership of the App Store !

Huh? That all came out of left field. And pretty far fetched to boot.
 
I'm not a big Apple fan. I buy and love their products but some of their actions and stances over the years have been morally reprehensible.

However, I think Apple will win this case. They built a secure platform and they're free to charge what they like. Epic knew this when they first signed up. Why are they (and quite a few other whiners) complaining now?

Epic should build their own store if they're that bothered about it. They just want to use Apple's infrastructure but not pay for it. They don't even have a case, I believe.
What if Epic charged $9.99 for the game in the App Store? Playing by the rules, Apple gets their 30% for all the development tools, App Store "marketing", distribution, etc. Now, Apple's job is done. They're happy. Later, a player wants to buy something in the game, that is run on Epic servers and has nothing to do with Apple. Why should Apple get 30% of that just to process the payment? At that point, Epic has nothing to do with Apple and should be able to process their own in-app purchases without Apple raping them.
 
Clearly Epic has acted in bad faith and baited Apple openly with the intent of slapping them with this lawsuit. I don't think they should win on that merit, but I also do not support the level of control and restriction that Apple has over our computing devices.

iPhones / iPads are not single purpose devices like PlayStation, Xbox, etc. They are essentially general purpose computers, and going forward they are going to continue to overtake traditional computers. Why shouldn't I be allowed to install the software that I want on my handheld computer? We've been doing it just fine on full size computers for many years. I understand that security is a legitimate concern for many, and so if you're happy with the App Store then that's fine. I think choices are a good thing.

If Microsoft said "sorry you can ONLY install applications from the Windows store" on your PC, would everyone be OK with that? Clearly not. To be fair, Microsoft nearly does have a monopoly on desktop market, so that's not the best comparison, but the philosophical point still stands. Saying "well, if you want to have options then go to Android" is not much of an argument.
 


The ongoing legal dispute between Apple and Epic Games continued on today, with a preliminary injunction hearing taking place this morning. We're still waiting to hear the judge's official ruling, but it looks like Epic is not going to be granted an injunction to allow Fortnite back into the App Store as the case unfolds.

fortnite-apple-logo-2.5.jpg

Many of the arguments that lawyers for Apple and Epic Games made were similar to the original arguments made in the hearing for the temporary restraining order, which did not exactly go in Epic's favor as Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers, who is overseeing the case, declined to order Apple to allow Fortnite back into the store at that time.

Epic Games continued to argue that Apple has an App Store monopoly and charges excessive fees, but the judge pointed out that the 30 percent rate that Apple collects is the "industry rate" collected by PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo, Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, Google, and more. "It's all 30 percent and you just want to gloss over it," the judge said to Epic's lawyers.

In response, Epic claimed that consoles are "different" because the hardware is sold at a loss, but the judge was unconvinced. "There doesn't seem to be evidence supporting what you're saying," she said.

Epic said that it wants to create its own store to distribute apps on iOS, but Apple's anticompetitive behavior prohibits it. In response, Apple's lawyers said the request was an indictment of Apple's "entire business model" focused on the "safety, security, and privacy of its users."

Judge Rogers questioned Epic on when, exactly Apple became a monopoly given that its App Store rules have remained unchanged since the App Store launched, which Epic had no solid answer for, responding only that it was a monopoly when Fortnite came to iOS in 2018. She also said that walled gardens have existed for four decades and that what Apple's doing isn't too different. "They created a platform," she said.

She also reiterated that Epic Games made a "calculated decision" to defy Apple's App Store rules, and the court doesn't provide injunctions for contractual disputes. Epic was "not forthright," she said. "There are people in the public who consider you guys heroes for what you did, but it's not honest."

There was a suggestion that the 30 percent fee Epic is meant to be paying Apple could be put into an escrow account that would be doled out at the end of the legal dispute, which is one potentially way that Fortnite could make it back into the App Store in the near future, but it's not clear if the two companies will agree to that.

As noted by CNET, Judge Gonzalez Rogers recommended that Apple and Epic Games consider a trial by jury, which would ensure that the final judgement is better able to stand up to a future appeal. Apple and Epic will need to request the jury trial, however. Regardless of whether there is a trial by jury, the full case is expected to be heard in July 2021.

Article Link: Epic Games Unlikely to Win Injunction in Ongoing Fortnite Battle With Apple, Jury Trial Possible
Hell no, epic screwed themselves, their clients and Apple. They do not deserve getting back in with fortnite. Fortnite is a direct ripoff of PUBG. Epic clients should sue epic for damages Instead.
 
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Apple needs to project it's investors! Lower the price of The App store will hurt their Stocks and profits! Unless the entire industry doing it, then it's ok.
 
Clearly Epic has acted in bad faith and baited Apple openly with the intent of slapping them with this lawsuit. I don't think they should win on that merit, but I also do not support the level of control and restriction that Apple has over our computing devices.

iPhones / iPads are not single purpose devices like PlayStation, Xbox, etc. They are essentially general purpose computers, and going forward they are going to continue to overtake traditional computers. Why shouldn't I be allowed to install the software that I want on my handheld computer? We've been doing it just fine on full size computers for many years. I understand that security is a legitimate concern for many, and so if you're happy with the App Store then that's fine. I think choices are a good thing.

If Microsoft said "sorry you can ONLY install applications from the Windows store" on your PC, would everyone be OK with that? Clearly not. To be fair, Microsoft nearly does have a monopoly on desktop market, so that's not the best comparison, but the philosophical point still stands. Saying "well, if you want to have options then go to Android" is not much of an argument.
When you buy a car, can you install what ever you want in it, without voiding the manufacturer warranty or insurance policy?
 
Epic’s arguments were never intended to stand up to scrutiny in court. They were designed to win a few brownie points in the court of opinion, and it worked for a while. We see Epic’s case falling apart and its “epic”.
 
I get this is an Apple fanboy forum but I don't get why people defend apple for charging such high prices, not even the government charges 30% and nobody really likes paying taxes, but at least taxes give you something in return. Apple doesn't give you anything in return and sticks it's 30% in you and you defend them as if they care about you, and your 3-year-lifetime cheap Chinese garbage products that are just contributing on more garbage on an already huge trash world problem.
 
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What if Epic charged $9.99 for the game in the App Store? Playing by the rules, Apple gets their 30% for all the development tools, App Store "marketing", distribution, etc. Now, Apple's job is done. They're happy. Later, a player wants to buy something in the game, that is run on Epic servers and has nothing to do with Apple. Why should Apple get 30% of that just to process the payment? At that point, Epic has nothing to do with Apple and should be able to process their own in-app purchases without Apple raping them.
Because apple did much more than just process the payment. Without apple, that player wouldn’t be there to buy something in the game running on apple’s devices.

There is no rule that the price of something should be proportional to the cost of providing that thing.
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Imagine serving jury duty for a case as petty as this.
That‘s why i keep posting my biased anti-Epic posts here. Trying to get disqualified from the jury.
 
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