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Epic Games Unlikely to Win Injunction in Ongoing Fortnite Battle With Apple, Jury Trial Possible
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I actually found that to be a bit of a bizarre point to make. I mean, why not 30%? Why not 40% you can ask this in reverse.
Also, more generally why does any company set any rate to charge? Companies exist to make a profit and they do so through margin on products. Why does Epic charge $9.99 for a game? Why not $8.99? Etc.
The Google Playstore version of Fortnite _is_ terminated already, and Epic is suing Google. Was terminated quite exactly at the same time as the iOS version.
Google already has the 30% rule just like Apple, they just didn't enforce it strongly. Somehow Epic must have upset them, so Google decided to enforce its rules against Fortnite.
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They should, but they don’t. At least in that case I have the right to take my business elsewhere or make my own burger.
I agree ~ Apple would probably welcome them back with open arms, just like they did with Qualcomm (though I don’t believe they were as arrogant as Epic in this case).
I would substitute the word “principles” for “pride”. It is a bitter pill to swallow for some.
Epic can do the same thing...android. Or epic can make its own phone, infrastructure, etc...going along with this analogy.
Hmm ... we need alternative App stores.
Strange how she's asking when Apple became a monopoly -does it matter? They were a monopoly from day 1 but when they're very small and up against industry giants like Nokia and Blackberry (remember those??)- then no one cares. Monopoly has to do with market position. They are a duopoly along with Google in the mobile app market.
Google allows alternative app stores although they do pretty much everything they can to prevent people using that, and they're very good at it. Still there are alternative stores.
Apple needs to allow alternative stores for its own good. My device I can install whatever the hell I want on the hardware that I bought. No?
Strange how she's asking when Apple became a monopoly -does it matter? They were a monopoly from day 1 but when they're very small and up against industry giants like Nokia and Blackberry (remember those??)- then no one cares. Monopoly has to do with market position. They are a duopoly along with Google in the mobile app market.
Google allows alternative app stores although they do pretty much everything they can to prevent people using that, and they're very good at it. Still there are alternative stores.
Apple needs to allow alternative stores for its own good. My device I can install whatever the hell I want on the hardware that I bought. No?
It is very possible that Epic will loos this battle, which is a shame, but in the long run Apple undoubtedly will loos the battle over the argument that they are not a factual monopoly. A 30 % fee is simply too much for what they or any platform offer.
You can always buy an Android phone. Don't know if you can still buy Windows phones...
It seems pretty clear to me that Epic's main strategy was to win public opinion and essentially "shame" Apple into changing Apple's policies. Epic wanted to make an enormous deal about it, release videos and press releases, encourage other developers to join them, etc. I don't think the public reaction was what they were hoping for and they likely know that their legal arguments are not particularly strong, but don't want to reverse course.
The fact that Epic rejected the escrow approach as a temporary solution further cements this in my opinion. They want to cause annoyances for their customer and point the finger at Apple, trying to get people to blame Apple. If the goal was to win a legal argument, using an escrow would be excellent for them as there isn't much of a downside and keeps Fortnight on the App Store.
The fact that Epic rejected the escrow approach as a temporary solution further cements this in my opinion. They want to cause annoyances for their customer and point the finger at Apple, trying to get people to blame Apple. If the goal was to win a legal argument, using an escrow would be excellent for them as there isn't much of a downside and keeps Fortnight on the App Store.
Because retail is 40-50% and guessing they figured out what their cost to run developer program and app store would be...
I know google had already done it, just now they will be preventing the workaround epic was using
Epic has plenty of other "store--fronts" to sell their product and to take their business. No matter how large, or successful, Apple's store front is, doesn't change the fact that Epic has other options. Lots of other platforms - and they make up the majority of ways to play Fortnite. From PCs, to Consoles and Androids - lots of ways to access the customer. By simple math, Apple does not actually have a "monopoly" that controls a majority of the customers. They simply control their own store. And Walmart is one of the world's largest retailers that gets to set the terms for pricing and percent of revenue for all the products in their store too. Most importantly, Epic set the precedent of agreeing to the terms for years to build their customer base. Now they want those customers for free essentially, or at least any of their continued purchases though the store.
While some may hate Apple or cheer for Epic the reality is Epic never really had a legal case at all. That is precisely why they did the very carefully orchestrated PR and media campaign to try to embarrass Apple and get consumer support. They played the victim card and the underdog angle hoping to get enough public support to feel sorry for them.
This is is not about antitrust and anti competitive either. While some of this things are up for debate to many people this case is not about those things at all. Epic broke the rules and until those rules are made illegal by Congress, the President and the courts what Epic did was break the law. One doesn't get to just violate a contract because they don't think it should be legal. Thats not how the law works.
Epic went about this the wrong way. They should have been lobbying Congress to do something if they felt it was unfair. Instead they planned a smear campaign against Apple hoping to cause enough negative press that Apple would cave and bend over for Epic.
Epic doesn't want a fair system. They want a system where they can make their own rules but not follow the rules of anybody else. They want to bypass the work of those that provided a platform for Epic to develop products and force the system to let them use it for free and pay no dues.
I have said this a lot I'm sure but Epic is never going to get the public support because 99% of the humans on the planet are not impacted by this at all. Developers profit margins may be impacted but what Apple does has absolutely no financial impact on consumers. In fact they provide consumer protections that Epic themselves would need bother to provide to customers. The consumer actually greatly benefits by Apples very strict payment and security policies.
99% of consumers also don't give any crap at all about this fight. Only the media looking for a juicy story because hell we are all kind of bored right now during Covid. None of us would even be talking about this if every tech site didn't write articles as if it was the fight of the century.
This is is not about antitrust and anti competitive either. While some of this things are up for debate to many people this case is not about those things at all. Epic broke the rules and until those rules are made illegal by Congress, the President and the courts what Epic did was break the law. One doesn't get to just violate a contract because they don't think it should be legal. Thats not how the law works.
Epic went about this the wrong way. They should have been lobbying Congress to do something if they felt it was unfair. Instead they planned a smear campaign against Apple hoping to cause enough negative press that Apple would cave and bend over for Epic.
Epic doesn't want a fair system. They want a system where they can make their own rules but not follow the rules of anybody else. They want to bypass the work of those that provided a platform for Epic to develop products and force the system to let them use it for free and pay no dues.
I have said this a lot I'm sure but Epic is never going to get the public support because 99% of the humans on the planet are not impacted by this at all. Developers profit margins may be impacted but what Apple does has absolutely no financial impact on consumers. In fact they provide consumer protections that Epic themselves would need bother to provide to customers. The consumer actually greatly benefits by Apples very strict payment and security policies.
99% of consumers also don't give any crap at all about this fight. Only the media looking for a juicy story because hell we are all kind of bored right now during Covid. None of us would even be talking about this if every tech site didn't write articles as if it was the fight of the century.
And you can buy one of a thousand android phones. And if you’re a software developer, you can support lots of other platforms.
I hate to break it to you but the federal government does have a 37% tax bracket.
Being a monopoly isn't a crime, becoming a monopoly through market forces isn't a crime, creating or maintaining a monopoly through improper conduct is problematic. The judge is posing the question that Apple when they created the App Store they were a small player and defined their revenue sharing arrangement as 30%. Apple haven't used their monopoly power to raise the market rate because they defined if from a place of weakness. Had Apple set their revenue sharing arrangement at 5% or 10% and then as they grew more dominant increased their percentages then this would be a different scenario. This is what the judge is fishing for with the question.
You left Microsoft off the list which had roughly half of the smartphone device market in 2007/2008 when the iPhone was released and subsequently the App Store.
Well said. People forgot how the titans viewed Apple back then. Just priceless.
People who are rooting for Apple on this: do you realize that if Epic loses you all get to keep paying Apple up to 30% tax every time you buy something from their App Store (even if it has nothing to do with Fortnite)? You're basically happy to pay more money to the company who has made $15 billion in revenue from the App Store alone last year. Do you actually believe it costs them $15 billion a year to run an online store?!
The fact that so many companies are charging the 30% tax while there's definitely a lot of backlash from developers (big and small) smells like some sort of price fixing to me. Maybe they're thinking: "If Apple are charging 30% and people are willing to pay why should we charge less?"
The fact that so many companies are charging the 30% tax while there's definitely a lot of backlash from developers (big and small) smells like some sort of price fixing to me. Maybe they're thinking: "If Apple are charging 30% and people are willing to pay why should we charge less?"
People might be apple shareholders.
But it's like saying, should we root for a thief that robs from apple? Why would we root for a billion dollar company over a common thief who is worth much less? Is what Epic attempted to do any better than that of a common thief?
Also you are making a huge assumption that developers will automatically pass the savings on to consumers which isn't very convincing. Most of these developers are selling shovel-ware for money that doesn't compete across apps/games. This is very much who gets more money, apple or developers, but at the end of the day it won't be you and me (unless you are a developer).
This bears repeating: Microsoft's position with Windows is not analogous to Apple's iOS. Microsoft software runs on hardware designed and manufactured by other companies. Apple has designed and constructed the entire iOS platform. Other developers are mere guests.
it also bears repeating that microsoft has created such a hardware that doesn't have competing app stores. it's called the xbox.