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Again, read my previous posts. People keep repeating the same quotes without the context. Context is crucial in reading and understanding legal rulings and any legal document for that matter.

The quotes apply NOT purchases outside apps, ONLY in-app purchases!

RE quote 1

The first quote relates ONLY to in-app purchases. Apple is allowed to restrict developers to use Apple’s In-App Purchasing system for in-app purchases. Said conduct has not been found in violation of the law.

My detailed explanation: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...rnative-payment-methods.2310292/post-30253609

RE quote 2

The second quote also relates to in-app purchases. Epic used their own purchasing system for in-app purchases instead of Apple’s In-App Purchasing system. That constitutes a breach of contract.

See my detailed explanation: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...s.2310292/page-25?post=30253823#post-30253823
The way that I interpret "IAP" in this order is not the act of purchasing in the app, but rather Apple's specific system for enabling these transactions. There's quite a bit of discussion on Apple's specific system, and they even call out this this distinction on page 3.

So when the order reads says "in the absence of IAP" I interpret that as in the absence of Apple's specific proprietary system for handling these transactions, not in-app vs outside of app.
 
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if i were apple, i would charge yearly developer fee based on developer revenue like many other business that offer software licensing based on usage/company size/employees or any other figure that would be fair for every body. And offer a free license for apps that stay within apple payment system
That might be a good solution if it simplifies the process. Some states employ this system to calculate corporate tax — a gross receipts tax, or as they describe it — “the cost or privilege of doing business in the state”. Obviously there is an advantage to doing business in certain states — talent pool, cost of living, status — the state created the positive environment so they want to be compensated for it. This is a tax based on total receipts with no deductions for operating expenses. This is essentially the 30% cut, but maybe the cut could be lower but apply to everything, including ad revenue for free apps?
 
This is the best possible outcome..! First, this allows Apple to continue to keep their store secure and limited, BUT will allow companies like Epic to provide for their own payment services which only allows for more payment options for consumers. Fortnight allowed for two payment types: 10 bucks for Apple and now 8 Bucks for their payment method... The consumer chooses!

Great job Judge!
I don’t think so — I believe pricing will have to be the same. Why would a store be forced to advertise lower prices elsewhere — have you seen this in any other situation, in any other market?
 
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The way that I interpret "IAP" in this order is not the act of purchasing in the app, but rather Apple's specific system for enabling these transactions. There's quite a bit of discussion on Apple's specific system, and they even call out this this distinction on page 3.

So when the order reads says "in the absence of IAP" I interpret that as in the absence of Apple's specific proprietary system for handling these transactions, not in-app vs outside of app.

Yep, IAP has a specific definition throughout.
 
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What exactly do you love about it? The fact Apple can use its monopoly power to punish not only Epic but also discourage other developers for standing up for themselves?
What "monopoly"? Claiming Apple is a monopoly belongs in the same delusional world that Ford is a monopoly in selling new Ford vehicles (and certified used ones). I am really tired of people misusing the term "monopoly". Microsoft and Intel are more a monopoly than Apple could ever be in the PC world and no one is complaining about Microsoft's and Intel's continued effective strangle hold the PCs market.
 
People keep repeating the same quotes without the context. Context is crucial in reading and understanding legal rulings and any legal document for that matter.
You keep repeating this, but every quote you are using is out of context. The actual injunction is the text that matters and it is a very straight forward one page document with all of the relevant language in one paragraph:

Apple Inc. and its officers, agents, servants, employees, and any person in active concert or participation with them (“Apple”), are hereby permanently restrained and enjoined from prohibiting developers from (i) including in their apps and their metadata buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms, in addition to In-App Purchasing and (ii) communicating with customers through points of contact obtained voluntarily from customers through account registration within the app.

There is no modification to the commission terms imposed by Apple. This is only about information— the court found it unfair (not unlawful) to restrain developers from telling users there are other ways to pay. There are no restrictions at all on what Apple can charge for their IP or how they can collect it. It also makes clear that these alternate payment systems are in addition to IAP.

Everything else is background to this paragraph. All of that background repeats over and over that Apple has a right to charge and collect a commission to monetize its IP, that the IAP charges are merely a means of collecting that commission but other collection methods are possible, and even helpfully suggests that the Court assumes Apple will simply audit developers which will have the consequence of burdening the developers with extra cost of compliance.

The Court is aware that Apple charges a commission for enabling additional functionality in applications, it approves of that practice, and made no effort to constrain it.
 
I’m waiting for the ‘Default Search Engine’ case where Apple will not be able to make Google the default one
Why wouldn't you want google (which is the more robust of the search engines) the default one? Yahoo has been a joke for a long time and the others even more so.
 
I’m waiting for the ‘Default Search Engine’ case where Apple will not be able to make Google the default one
Well, keep waiting. There has to be some default, and this can be changed if the user wants. I’ve used other engines — I just prefer Google.
 
so Wall Street knows better? cause they're a bunch of lawyers?
They know better, because money talks, bullsh*t walks. The stock price of all big companies moves almost instantaneously on news that effects future earnings. This was not a win for Apple.
 
Yet they don't charge a fee or 30% on any sale conducted or service provided over the telephone network.
Why not? Don't these network operators wish they could?
Well, they could try as nothing is stopping them from doing it. Don’t forget that they collect subscription from the users of their network every month to help pay for their investment on infrastructure and making a profit at the same time.

At the end of the day, it’s just the business model of the market they operate in. IMHO, comparing the business models are not meaningful.
 
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I....just don't understand this argument either. Apple is not collecting ALL TRANSACTIONS on iPhone. I can buy something with Safari and Apple gets 0 from it.
Your example is Safari??? An Apple app. Can other company load app not through the app store? No. Holy smokes. Name me an app that can be loaded on the iphone where a company doesn't have to give apple a cut? Can Netflix? Can Spotify?
 
Your example is Safari??? An Apple app. Can other company load app not through the app store? No. Holy smokes. Name me an app that can be loaded on the iphone where a company doesn't have to give apple a cut? Can Netflix? Can Spotify?
He just did. You can load any web app you want, using safari or any other available web browser. You can save them as icons on your home screen. Netflix could. Spotify could. In the early days of iphone, that’s all ANYBODY did.
 
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Why wouldn't you want google (which is the more robust of the search engines) the default one? Yahoo has been a joke for a long time and the others even more so.
Not saying I don’t want Google, but there’s an argument that having it as the default is anti-competitive, it’s only default because Google give Apple money for it.
 
Not saying I don’t want Google, but there’s an argument that having it as the default is anti-competitive, it’s only default because Google give Apple money for it.

Since Apple is the one doing it, and it’s not Apple’s search engine, no court is going to say Apple is doing anything anti-competitive. In fact, how could it be?
 
Surprised nobody is reporting that Apple is permitted to terminate Epic’s primary and subsidiary developer accounts. No more Fortnite on the App Store, no more development of Unreal Engine. Love it! See page 180 of the ruling, attached here.
Wasn’t it big news that Apple was going to kill all games that used the Unreal Engine?

So they legally can do that now?
 
Because it enables extra functionality within the app in exchange for a payment. This is already in the developer agreement. Apple is entitled to charge for the use of it’s IP. The judge stated that many times in the judgement.
Buying more coins in a game app enables extra functionality?
 
As a consumer, I like the convenience of having a single place that subscriptions are managed and billed from. I have paid for content that I would not have because of this convenience. It seems fair to me that Apple takes a cut.
No one is going to stop you from being able to do that.
 
Well, they could try as nothing is stopping them from doing it. Don’t forget that they collect subscription from the users of their network every month to help pay for their investment on infrastructure and making a profit at the same time.

At the end of the day, it’s just the business model of the market they operate in. IMHO, comparing the business models are not meaningful.
So when someone purchases a $1000 iPhone where does that go? Does none of that support the App Store?
 
Your example is Safari??? An Apple app. Can other company load app not through the app store? No. Holy smokes. Name me an app that can be loaded on the iphone where a company doesn't have to give apple a cut? Can Netflix? Can Spotify?
Uber and Lyft to name two.
 
You're not getting it. Epic got EXACTLY what it wanted. It will now be able to completely bypass Apple's pay mechanism for everything. They have to pay the 30% while they were required to, now, they don't have to pay anything. They just link to their store.

Barring appeals, this going to cripple Apple's revenue from their app store.

Download a game for free. Here's a link to purchase the unlock code. 100% profits for developer. 0% profit for Apple.
You miss the part where Apple is given permission to permanently ban not only Epic Games but the Epic developer accounts for Unreal Engine. Basically Epic not only owes Apple money for their stunt, but they lost a year of revenue and tons of customers, and basically it is up to Apple if they can ever post a game or app on iOS again, on top of that Apple can even block the Unreal Engine which means some developers may chose other game engines to avoid the chance of that the their game gets blocked because the Unreal Engine becomes disqualified for approval on the app store . Basically Epic lost well... hate to use the pun.. but Epic took an Epic loss on this one.
 
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Clearly none of you are game or app developers. If you worked really hard on your app or game just to have Apple/Steam/Google take 30% of all profits on your app/game. I'd be pissed too. Epic pleaded with them to take a more reasonable cut, and they all said no. But, then of course there are sweetheart deals with Netflix and Spotify to allow people to purchase their subscription outside of Apple ecosystem. Just shady and a big ol middle finger to your average dev company.

I love Apple as much as the next person, but when they stop robbing the developers that make their platform so good, it does nothing but help everyone.
So let me get this right... Apple created a whole industry (there was no market for apps in any comparison before apple) and you feel that you are some how owed a free ride on that network to get rich and Apple should just eat the cost for you? Try making any other product and selling it in a mall, you know where most malls rent spaces by the square foot and you have to pay rent regardless of how poor your sales are for your crummy product. The so called Sweetheart deals is that both Spotify and Netflix do not have any in app purchases to begin with, lots of people had accounts before that Apple was not really getting much anyway and any app can do that, not just netflix and spotify, if you want to charge for something you can sell codes on your website and customers can enter it themselves, just no one click solution where you pocket all the earnings. There are plenty of apps that do this and nothing stopping app developers from doing same.

So tired of developers who feel that they should proffit 100% of the back of others work. You didnt spend the billions developing hardware and software and network distribution but you feel you should be entitled to get all the profits without any expenses and be subsidized by Apple for it. It is greedy little app developers who have zero appreciation for the fact that the industry they profit from that was made for them by Apple and Google. End of the day like every other industry there are costs of doing business, if you can't succeed without a handout from Apple because that is what you are demanding in expecting everything to be done for you for no cost, then frankly your business deserves to fail and you should move on to something else. It is not Apple, Google, or Microsofts responsibilty to make it so it "does nothing but help everyone", last I checked they were a business and not the charity business. Look at it this way, without Apple and Google making the hardware and software backends, you would be earning 100% of 0 dollars instead of 70% of whatever your product actually makes.
 
So when someone purchases a $1000 iPhone where does that go? Does none of that support the App Store?
Only Apple knows.

But I know that bringing iPhones to market cost a lot of money. Samsung sells smartphones that cost as much as iPhones, but I don't see people complaining that Samsung should be providing free apps and services? And Samsung does not even expand costs in maintaining Android, AFAIK. They just take what Google provides and add extra fluffs onto it.

Again, this is the business model that company chooses in the market they operate in. Consumers are not force into buying an iPhone or a Galaxy phone or any phones. It's a choice and every choice comes with pros and cons.
 
Wasn’t it big news that Apple was going to kill all games that used the Unreal Engine?

So they legally can do that now?
That wasn’t exactly what they were going to do, I think. I believe that the point was they were going to ban the Unreal developer account, which means the unreal engine couldn’t be signed, etc., and incorporated into future apps (at least not with any further updates). So existing apps would be fine, but since there wouldn’t be any further unreal updates, the end result is the same, just after more time.
 
Right. So this argument that the 30% commission is necessary to fund running the App Store is crap. Basically what you have is game developers subsidizing everyone else. The App Store didn’t start out with IAP but once Apple realized how much money they were making off of micro transactions in games they were never going to give it up. In some ways it’s kind of gross how one of Apple’s biggest growth areas has come from addictive games that get people to spend lots of money buying coins and stuff. I don’t think that’s something to be proud of.
So we should go back to prohibition and ban cigarettes anything addictive by your logic since isnt it a bit gross that these massive alchohol and tabacco companies are able to make fortunes out of people for buying addictive stuff... And if you think 100 dollars pays for storage, server security, bandwidth, advertising, payment processing, dispute resolution, technical support and development of APIs you are really not understanding it. The more successful developers do in many ways subsidize the the smaller developers. If the small developers had to pay the honest price for all that, without any garauntee on returns most would be out of business before they got anywhere. There are literally millions of games that are 100% free, millions of Apps like netflix and spotify that are 100% yet get the same support from Apple as the high value paid apps. And lets be reasonable, Apple is a business not a charity. Asking them to invest millions in creating new APIs, new software and hardware features that independant developers can exploit to create new software and new functions without any financial incentive is pretty sad. Shouldnt app developers have to put some back into the system? I mean if they were selling shirts they would have to pay rent at a mall or give a percentive to amazon etc, why should Apple have to do all that without making profit?
 
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