Epic Games Wins Antitrust Lawsuit Against Google Play Store

[Ethosik]

Just want to say I saw this coming a mile away. Why do you think some of us pushed so hard with the Apple case. Learn from History, see how Epic acts in the PC space, see how they handled their Fortnite lawsuits and you would know where we are going.

Epic sued Google because it’s “too difficult “ to side load. Therefore, expect big changes now in both Android and Apple. This is what happens when you don’t push back and just want to take Apple down for the sake of it.

 

[Ethosik]

To be frank, 30% is way too much for a platform, be it Google or Apple. Even 10% would be pushing it. This needs to be addressed. Both companies dug their own hole with their race to the bottom app pricing, which directly led to the proliferation of subscription services. And now we pay 10€ a month for a note taking app or a novelty photo filter app. Everything is 10€ a month.

Do you have a breakdown that shows 30% is too much? In what way is it too much and how is even 10% pushing it?

 

[scorpio vega]

Closed ecosystems are not built with your benefit in mind, my friend. They're there to establish vendor lock-in and ensure maximum profit for the shareholders. Marketing teams have successfully made gullible consumers believe it's about you.

You guys really overthink this thing and make it seem like Apple is some big evil. None of these companies truly have our benefits in the minds because it is a Capitalist world. Meaning they, like the rest of us, want to make money. Some companies are worse than others, this is true. But in the end, how am I going to fault them for making money.

You guys make it seem like consumers are stupid. I am not worried about being "locked-in" becuase at any given time, I can choose to go elsewhere.

Because that is the beauty of a Capitalist world. My money works very well and when someone annoys me (Google) i can easily go somewhere else (microsoft) and when Microsoft let me down I can go to (Apple) and back to Google if i am ridiculous enough to do.

Nobody is locked in. I never said Apple is about me. I personally couldnt care less about what they do for their shareholders as long as my phone and the entire ecosystem works for me and it does.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Surely all these lawsuits will lower prices for consumers.

Right? RIGHT?

😋

 

[scorpio vega]

I would pay even more to bust up apple's gatekeeping goblins

This weird har*on you guys have for Apple having some sort of comeuppance (for what exactly?) is kind of disturbing.
I strongly dislike Google and while this definitely made me smirk I am not actively campaigning for Google's downfall. Subpar Android aside, I recognize Google is necessary for Choice. But the EU is definitely even more annoying and going down a slippery slope of overstepping.

All because you feel that you have the right to sideload low quality apps (Pirate more than likely) on a closed software

 

[Ethosik]

And not a moment too soon. Soon it won't have to worry about region locked apps anymore and we can get so many fun new apps for iOS, like retro game emulators or Xbox Game Pass for Cloud.

Emulators are illegal. Not sure why everyone wants Android and iOS to be destroyed for it.

 

[Ethosik]

You guys really overthink this thing and make it seem like Apple is some big evil. None of these companies truly have our benefits in the minds because it is a Capitalist world. Meaning they, like the rest of us, want to make money. Some companies are worse than others, this is true. But in the end, how am I going to fault them for making money.

You guys make it seem like consumers are stupid. I am not worried about being "locked-in" becuase at any given time, I can choose to go elsewhere.

Because that is the beauty of a Capitalist world. My money works very well and when someone annoys me (Google) i can easily go somewhere else (microsoft) and when Microsoft let me down I can go to (Apple) and back to Google if i am ridiculous enough to do.

Nobody is locked in. I never said Apple is about me. I personally couldnt care less about what they do for their shareholders as long as my phone and the entire ecosystem works for me and it does.

Seriously. This whole “locked in” boogeyman is just strange. I’m more locked in with my Internet Service Provider yet people don’t care about that fight. How are you this locked in to an iPhone? I would have no issues switching and I have Apple One and have a massive library of music, tv shows and movies totaling in over $30,000 over 15 years.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Emulators are illegal. Not sure why everyone wants Android and iOS to be destroyed for it.

Why are you pushing that already debunked myth? Emulation was declared legal through case law in Sony vs Connectix, Sony vs Bleem, and Apple vs Correllium. Downloading BIOS and ROMs is illegal as that's software piracy, but if the BIOS and ROMs were dumped from legally obtained original hardware and emulated on nonoriginal hardware then it's considered Fair Use from those court cases

I'd like to remind you Steve Jobs and Phil Schiller demo'd said emulators during Macworld 1999.

 

[Erwin-Br]

You guys really overthink this thing and make it seem like Apple is some big evil. None of these companies truly have our benefits in the minds because it is a Capitalist world. Meaning they, like the rest of us, want to make money. Some companies are worse than others, this is true. But in the end, how am I going to fault them for making money.

You guys make it seem like consumers are stupid. I am not worried about being "locked-in" becuase at any given time, I can choose to go elsewhere.

Because that is the beauty of a Capitalist world. My money works very well and when someone annoys me (Google) i can easily go somewhere else (microsoft) and when Microsoft let me down I can go to (Apple) and back to Google if i am ridiculous enough to do.

Nobody is locked in. I never said Apple is about me. I personally couldnt care less about what they do for their shareholders as long as my phone and the entire ecosystem works for me and it does.

We're not over-thinking, you are over-simplifying. Unconstrained capitalism doesn't work, hence we have rules and regulations, including competition law, or antitrust law. Without these safeguards your perceived "choice", which is already under pressure, will be completely wiped out. But what I gather from your reasoning is that you don't give a damn as long as it doesn't affect your personal preferences.

 

[webkit]

Weird how the Apple and Google cases vs Epic both played out exactly in line with my arguments.

Which arguments are you referring to?

 

[Abazigal]

Business model of Nintendo is selling affordable gaming hardware at loss and recovering losses with this 30% cut. Sounds fair to me. And sounds fair enough for game publishers to not argue against it.

Business model of Apple is to scam you twice: first when you have to purchase overpriced uncompetitive device because your friends use iMessage, and then by taxing everything you do on an iPhone with 30%.

I can also turn this argument around on its head, by arguing that it should not be the duty of the people to prop up poor business models. If you need to charge a 30% cut in order to make up for your selling the gaming hardware at a loss, then maybe don't sell it at a loss in the first place?

From the perspective of the game developer, if I publish a game on both iOS and the Nintendo Switch App Store, and I know I will be paying 30% to the companies either way, I don't see the logic as to why I might have an issue with paying Apple their cut, but would otherwise be fine with paying Nintendo their 30%.

Likewise, I don't see what the price of the iPhone has to do with developers. They are not the ones paying for it in the first place, so what do they care? If anything, it's precisely because the iPhone costs so much that Apple customers are largely self-selecting, and developers get to target a lucrative user base for less effort compared to Android. I will argue that 30% is not an unreasonable rate to reflect the role Apple plays in growing the overall pie for App developers.

What Epic ultimately wants is the network effect of the App Store and free access to Apple's user base, while getting to use their own billing system (thus keeping 100% of revenue). In short, they want to have their cake and eat it too. They are not the heroes in this story.

 

[Ethosik]

Why are you pushing that already debunked myth? Emulation was declared legal through case law in Sony vs Connectix, Sony vs Bleem, and Apple vs Correllium. Downloading BIOS and ROMs is illegal as that's software piracy, but if the BIOS and ROMs were dumped from the original hardware and emulated on nonoriginal hardware then it's considered Fair Use from those court cases

I'd like to remind you Steve Jobs and Phil Schiller demo'd said emulators during Macworld 1999.

It’s illegal to break encryption. So while you can have emulation software, you can’t have any games that are not yours (as in you didn’t make it).

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Epic is a bunch of whiners. Apple and Google deserve their success. Maybe Epic should try building their own phone platform

What a ridiculous comment. Should every manufacturer of products also build their own stores to sell their wares? Epic isn't in the business of making phones. Apple and Google (to some extent) force developers and users to use their stores, and make up terms that you either are forced to agree to or go out of business. Doesn't sound fair to me, and the jury thought so too.

 

[Remy149]

Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft should be next.

I'm pretty sure those platforms collect 30% of every purchase regardless of whether you buy stuff at GameStop, Walmart, or from the online platform stores.

If Apple and Google are prohibited from collecting "unduly high fees" then other platforms should be prohibited too, right?

This should be interesting...

😋

That would kill the console market if they could no longer collect these fees. With the exception of Nintendo console makers main source of revenue is software

 

[AdamHarbour]

I am so sick of hearing about Epic. Can you just focus on making a good product/offering instead of whining in court because you apparently can't.

Can you read the headline and ignore the rest ! 🤷‍♂️

 

[BaldiMac]

Which arguments are you referring to?

Well, in this case and directly in line with your previous post, I have said many times that Google entered into anticompetitive agreements with its horizontal competitors to install Google Play Services.

 

[BugeyeSTI]

Apple is next

Supreme court will never accept the case so Epic will have to bend over and take it where the sun don't shine...

 

[scorpio vega]

What a ridiculous comment. Should every manufacturer of products also build their own stores to sell their wares? Epic isn't in the business of making phones. Apple and Goolgle (to some extent) force developers and users to use their stores, and make up terms that you either are forced to agree to or go out of business. Doesn't sound fair to me, and the jury thought so too.

If you are wanting to get the exposure from Apple and Google then yes you should pay a Fee to access the store. Some people can say 30 percent is too much but what is too much for one and too little for the other?

The key difference here is Apple flat out refused Epic. Google literally committed Anticompetive acts by giving one company a free/cheap deal (Spotify) yet not offering the same advantage to another.

Seriously. This whole “locked in” boogeyman is just strange. I’m more locked in with my Internet Service Provider yet people don’t care about that fight. How are you this locked in to an iPhone? I would have no issues switching and I have Apple One and have a massive library of music, tv shows and movies totaling in over $30,000 over 15 years.

Exactly. It's ridiculous. I have Apple music so my music will literally transfer to my Galaxy 22. All my pictures. My emails. I can still access Apple stuff through the browser if need be.

I am not locked in.

I am more locked in with my current lease that I can't break even though I have a terrible roommate. That i do feel trapped in. I am not trapped with Apple.

It's hilarious and even more so kind of sad.

We're not over-thinking, you are over-simplifying. Unconstrained capitalism doesn't work, hence we have rules and regulations, including competition law, or antitrust law. Without these safeguards your perceived "choice", which is already under pressure, will be completely wiped out. But what I gather from your reasoning is that you don't give a damn as long as it doesn't affect your personal preferences.

My perceived choice is already at risk of being wiped out or changing becuase the Government is forcing it to be something it never was. If apple was actively doing something to stifle competition with messaging for example, go for it. But it is not becuase iMessage (while default) is not widely used and there are dozens of options.

I now have Apple music but i also have youtube music, spotify, pandora, and Tidal on my phone. Meaning, I am not locked into Apple's stuff.

I have choice and apple is not being anti-compeitive. It's the sense of entitlement that a sucessful company is this big evil because they don't give away their software to a company who can't create their own.
Google has had 20 years making messaging apps and had ample time before Apple became iPhone/Imessage to create something. Ample time to create something before Whatsapp. And yet they can't.

I just think it's ridiculous. And yes, if it does not affect me or the greater good, then No i really don't care. Because Apple's actions are not harming my needs nor the greater good for the consumer.

You have the choice as a Consumer to not buy Apple or buy into the ecosystem. Apple can't force you.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

We're not over-thinking, you are over-simplifying. Unconstrained capitalism doesn't work, hence we have rules and regulations, including competition law, or antitrust law. Without these safeguards your perceived "choice", which is already under pressure, will be completely wiped out. But what I gather from your reasoning is that you don't give a damn as long as it doesn't affect your personal preferences.

That seems to be the overwhelming opinion here with people siding with the behemoth corporate greed companies.
But hey, Spotify doesn't pay artists enough and everyone craps on them. I can't figure out which side people are on anymore.

 

[Zest28]

I am guessing part of the ruling is that Google is sort of bribing certain developers to keep their apps exclusively in the Playstore. Just like they demand their Google apps to be pre-installed on the Home Screen or not at all (if I am not mistaken)

All these developers will start crying when Google pulls the plug from Android. Because in the end, Google is not making that much money from Android.

And Google is known for exiting businesses it doesn't consider profitable.

 

[Ethosik]

All these developers will start crying when Google pulls the plug from Android. Because in the end, Google is not making that much money from Android.

And Google is known for exiting businesses it doesn't consider profitable.

This is why we need more options and focus towards that than impacting the two we already have. Offer assistance, tax breaks, etc to another company to have a third option available.

 

[Remy149]

Business model of Nintendo is selling affordable gaming hardware at loss and recovering losses with this 30% cut. Sounds fair to me. And sounds fair enough for game publishers to not argue against it.

Business model of Apple is to scam you twice: first when you have to purchase overpriced uncompetitive device because your friends use iMessage, and then by taxing everything you do on an iPhone with 30%.

Nintendo hasn’t sold hardware at a loss since the GameCube. It’s why their condones aren’t cutting edge tech. A large percentage of their revenue is from hardware

 

[Zest28]

This is why we need more options and focus towards that than impacting the two we already have. Offer assistance, tax breaks, etc to another company to have a third option available.

Really? Why would Microsoft make a mobile OS, when it is not allowed to make money from it? And Microsoft already tried and failed horribly.

Microsoft doesn't even care about Windows these days as it's not where Microsoft makes their money from.

 

[Ethosik]

Really? Why would Microsoft make a mobile OS, when it is not allowed to make money from it? And Microsoft already tried and failed horribly.

Key words in my statement: “offer assistance “

 

[scorpio vega]

Fantastic news. We're one step closer to getting Fortnite back on mobile and Mac. Makes you wonder if they opted for a jury for their case against Apple if they would've won.



They do focus on making a good product. They literally just released a Lego survival crafting game that has taken everyone by storm, even crashing the servers because of the sheer amount of people who logged in to play it. It now gets more players than the Battle Royale does.

I will fully admit that Gaming is not my area of experitse or concern. I really only known Epic because we apparently have an epic Games HQ in Cary, NC which is 15 mins from my place in downtown raleigh and they brought fornite to the mainstream.

All i do know is that anytime I hear about them, it is not because of their products. It is because of them trying to sue someone and it is annoying. Just made a good product. And stop trying to sue your way to success.