Epic Games Wins Antitrust Lawsuit Against Google Play Store

[Velli]

Simple, just make a law that any App Store is not allowed to collect more than 10%. Should be plenty to cover infrastructure costs and moderation.

This verdict does NOT state that an app store cannot charge 30%. The verdict states that Google "engaged in anticompetitive conduct". It is, and should be, possible to charge whichever margin you feel like, for any product. As long as you don't misuse a monopoly or in other ways take part in anticompetitive behaviour, to artificially inflate it. If you are able to charge 99% in open competition, noone is to blame but the competitors.

If you DO have a monopoly, then you will be under scrutiny not to inflate margins. But Google's problem here was that they acted like they are open to competitors, but behind the scenes they made shady deals to push out competitors. Conversely, having a 5% margin does not somehow allow you "engage in anticompetitive conduct". It's about the behaviour, not about the margin. And anyone believing that all of this will end up in lower prices for the consumers, are hallucinating.

 

[windowsblowsass]

Seriously. This whole “locked in” boogeyman is just strange. I’m more locked in with my Internet Service Provider yet people don’t care about that fight. How are you this locked in to an iPhone? I would have no issues switching and I have Apple One and have a massive library of music, tv shows and movies totaling in over $30,000 over 15 years.

People care it’s just that home internet isn’t easy to create a competitor too. Infrastructure is complex and expensive, there’s a reason Apple and Google don’t own cell towers. Right now we’re in as good of place for ISP competition as we’ve been in a while with starlink and fixed cellular being reasonable alternatives for people who do not have very heavy use cases.

 

[scorpio vega]

Really? Why would Microsoft make a mobile OS, when it is not allowed to make money from it? And Microsoft already tried and failed horribly.

Microsoft doesn't even care about Windows these days as it's not where Microsoft makes their money from.

AS the lone windows phone fangirl here, I will always defend WP to the death haha.

I honestly think both Windows 8 and Windows Phone were ahead of their time.

Windows 11 now is what windows 8 should have been and I think NOW would have been a good time to introducde whatever they were trying to do with Windows phone back in mid 2010s.

We do need a 3rd viable options. What I have notice about Android users (not saying you are) is that they talk about choice or openness but only if it somehow benefits Android. Most would be happy if Apple somehow died out today and left just different flavors of Android.

 

[4743913]

All because you feel that you have the right to sideload low quality apps (Pirate more than likely) on a closed software

kids that got their first computers in the 90s and 00s seem to a lot more submissive than 80s kids when it comes to things like this.. weird

 

[Velli]

That seems to be the overwhelming opinion here with people siding with the behemoth corporate greed companies.
But hey, Spotify doesn't pay artists enough and everyone craps on them. I can't figure out which side people are on anymore.

Do you have to be on someones "side"? When I am presented with a topic, I consider what I personally think about the subject, and base my opinion on that. I don't care if that fits with what a specific company, or political party for that matter, believes or benefits from.

I think that if people would focus a little more on what they themselves think about a topic, and less about whether it fits with whoever they have pre-determined that they want to agree with, the political climate in the world would be in a much healthier state. Everything is about picking a side, and whoever is on the other side are morons. Not healthy.

 

[McTaste]

So dumb for Apple to win and Google to lose. **** Epic.

 

[cocky jeremy]

EU has entered the chat...

I don't give a **** what happens over there.

 

[webkit]

Well, in this case and directly in line with your previous post, I have said many times that Google entered into anticompetitive agreements with its horizontal competitors to install Google Play Services.

An agreement to pre-install something like Google Play is one thing but an agreement that also incentivizes companies to not offer a competitive alternative (e.g., own store/distribution in the case of developers, alternative app stores in the case of phone makers) takes it to another level as we seem to have here.

 

[webkit]

All these developers will start crying when Google pulls the plug from Android. Because in the end, Google is not making that much money from Android.

And Google is known for exiting businesses it doesn't consider profitable.

Even if restrictions are lifted on Android (i.e., no more incentivizing companies to not offer alternative app stores/distribution options), Google Play will likely continue to be a significant player on Android and Google makes a lot of money from Google Play. Android is too valuable to Google and device makers to go away.

 

[jarman92]

Apple is next

Is it? It’s extremely unlikely SCOTUS will hear Epic v. Apple, meaning Apple’s Ninth Circuit win will remain in place. And Epic can’t sue Apple again on these facts or issues.

 

[BaldiMac]

So dumb for Apple to win and Google to lose. **** Epic.

Not really. The facts were different. For example, Google destroyed evidence and entered into anticompetitive agreements.

An agreement to pre-install something like Google Play is one thing but an agreement that also incentivizes companies to not offer a competitive alternative (e.g., own store/distribution in the case of developers, alternative app stores in the case of phone makers) takes it to another level as we seem to have here.

That's exactly what I said. Not simply agreements to pre-install. "Anticompetitive agreements".

 

[Michael Scrip]

That would kill the console market if they could no longer collect these fees. With the exception of Nintendo console makers main source of revenue is software

But fees are fees.

Are you telling me that Epic is happy paying 30% in fees to Sony and Microsoft... while taking Google and Apple to court trying not to pay those very same fees?

The developers can't have it both ways. Either they pay fees to all platforms... or none of the platforms.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Epic is a bunch of whiners. Apple and Google deserve their success. Maybe Epic should try building their own phone platform

They want to have their apps and their own app store on Apple and google's platform and not pay anything. They basically want a free ride.

 

[MRxROBOT]

They want to have their apps and their own app store on Apple and google's platform and not pay anything. They basically want a free ride.

Curious. Do you consider Windows / macOS apps on your computer a free ride if they're not purchased from the official App Store?

 

[Velli]

I don't give a **** what happens over there.

Welcome to a world where what happens on the other side actually affects you. Europeans have reacted to what happened in America for a century. Now it's your turn. US of A is no longer the center of the earth. Deal with it.

Your cars are already made for China.

 

[Velli]

Curios. Do you consider Windows / macOS apps on your computer a free ride if they're not purchased from the official App Store?

Not sure about Microsoft, but I think it is pretty clear that Apple does, and they would kill that option if it was feasible.

 

[4743913]

Emulators are illegal.

lol. no.

 

[4743913]

US of A is no longer the center of the earth.

Actually USA money is the center of the earth and always will be until other countries can support themselves.

 

[dannydan]

Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft should be next.

I'm pretty sure those platforms collect 30% of every purchase regardless of whether you buy stuff at GameStop, Walmart, or from the online platform stores.

If Apple and Google are prohibited from collecting "unduly high fees" then other platforms should be prohibited too, right?

This should be interesting...

😋

The primary issue is that Apple and Google don’t allow third-party payment systems. The secondary issue is that the fees are unduly high. Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft are not concerned as you can buy keys for their apps in third-party stores.

 

[cthompson94]

Business model of Nintendo is selling affordable gaming hardware at loss and recovering losses with this 30% cut. Sounds fair to me. And sounds fair enough for game publishers to not argue against it.

Business model of Apple is to scam you twice: first when you have to purchase overpriced uncompetitive device because your friends use iMessage, and then by taxing everything you do on an iPhone with 30%.

what?!?! a simple Google search "does Nintendo lose money on the switch" will show results of no they certainly make profit on the switch and even an article back in 2016 herehttps://venturebeat.com/games/nintendo-wont-sell-switch-at-a-loss-plans-to-ship-2-million-units-in-march/

"Kimishima also explained that the company will make a profit on Switch hardware, but it also wants to ensure that the device comes out at a price that is in line with consumer expectations."

 

[Velli]

AS the lone windows phone fangirl here, I will always defend WP to the death haha.

I never owned one, but was seriously considering it. So I never lived through what the downsides were, but I really liked the interface. Especially the fact that it was original and not just an uglier iOS ripoff. It had something that Android has never had: Style and flair. Same for some of the phones that came with it, actually. While all the Android makers were trying to argue that there was simply no way to design a smartphone that didn't look exactly like the iPhone, Nokia made the Lumia 800.

I am also one of few if any people I know that actually liked the Windows 8 interface. It was the fact that it felt like using two different OS'es at the same time that killed me. MS did not have the guts (wisely, probably) to go all-out on the Metro interface and kill backwards compatibility. This is where having to support a legacy of software will limit your ability to innovate.

On the upside, in the end it was what pushed me towards Apple products, which dates me as a newbie in that regard 😊

 

[hans1972]

Closed ecosystems are not built with your benefit in mind, my friend. They're there to establish vendor lock-in and ensure maximum profit for the shareholders. Marketing teams have successfully made gullible consumers believe it's about you.

It is for some of us. Apple's closed system removes power from third parties like developers and those who offer services like Spotify.

Since I consider these evil (unless proven otherwise) a closed system can work as a shield against third parties.

I don't want any contact with app developers or companies like Spotify. I just want to use their app or services, preferably anonymously.

 

[Michael Scrip]

The primary issue is that Apple and Google don’t allow third-party payment systems.

Actually they do in certain areas. Remember the Dutch Dating App saga?

They let some developers use their own payment solution and will lower the platform fees by 4%... but the developer still has to pay the remaining 26% to the platform owner.

Remember... the 15% or 30% fee isn't just a "credit card" fee... it's an all-encompassing "platform" fee.

Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft are not concerned as you can buy keys for their apps in third-party stores.

Yes the consumer can buy games in many stores.

But the developer still has to pay a fee to Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft.

Whether you buy a game at Walmart, Target, GameStop or somewhere online... the platform owners get their cut!

 

[bigjnyc]

Live look-in at epic’s lawyers:

 

[wilhoitm]

Is Apple next as Apple is arguably even more restrictive than android with no ability to install an alternative App Store on iOS (yet).

Where have you been? Apple already won the same case against Epic!

Apple wins antitrust court battle with Epic Games, appeals court rules | TechCrunch

Apple won its antitrust-focused appeals court battle with Fortnite maker Epic Games over its App Store policies.

techcrunch.com