Epic's Case Against Apple in Australia Might Be Over

[I7guy]

I think they are trying to say, everyone including Australians are having to pay more because, Epic is being forced to pay Apple.

Do you believe (or better, does anyone believe?) that if the app store is dismanteled and alternate app stores and side-loaded is somehow allowed, the consumers and developers will benefit? Either a race to the bottom will happen or devs will want to keep the extra x% from the alleged reduction in fees. If an IAP or purchase price is .99 is a dev going to lower it to .90? Not likely.

The flipside is the race to the bottom in quality, malware/spyware etc.

[...]

I held a law degree once. I was helping a friend hang it on his wall. (For that one moment, he was the hanging judge.)

[...]

Nice one. lol.

 

[1258186]

As far as Kindle, you still can only buy books on a Kindle, or through a convoluted process from the app on a computer (MacOS) You and't buy books on the regular pages of Amaon.com

You can buy Kindle books on the Amazon website. I do it every day. You can’t buy them on the iPhone or iPad apps which is a pain.

 

[1258186]

I hope Epic wins and Apple are forced to allow alternative app stores.

 

[cmaier]

It has nothing to do for being an American Company or not. Usually you have to sue where the Company is registered and operate. E.g here in Germany it’s “Apple GmbH. Katharina-von-Bora-Str. 3 80333 München Deutschland”, but they can try over the EU route, or sue over each Country.
In Australia its “Apple Pty Limited ABN 46 002 510 054. Our registered office is at 20 Martin Place, Sydney NSW 2000, Australia.”

Australia simply depends of the USA, and fear getting into any economic troubles, and prefer being USA’s pet.

No. Whether or not the named parties are the local subsidiaries doesn’t change the fact that all of the relevant witnesses, the allegedly bad actions, and the alleged harm, took place in the United States. If an Apple maps car ran over an epic employee in San Francisco, and the epic employee had a summer house in Australia, no Australian court is going to hear the case. This is a fundamental principle of law - when the nexus to a jurisdiction is slim, the jurisdiction won’t take the case unless it turns out that justice requires it. In this case, if the california judge refuses to take the Australian case (and she will refuse), then Australia will revisit.

 

[cmaier]

I hope Epic wins and Apple are forced to allow alternative app stores.

I hope that after that happens, the attack vectors that are opened up (allowing apps signed by other arbitrary app stores to execute, resulting in you visiting a website and an app silently being installed in the background) don’t result in you losing to much of the money in your bank account.

 

[PlainBelliedSneetch]

It has nothing to do for being an American Company or not. Usually you have to sue where the Company is registered and operate. E.g here in Germany it’s “Apple GmbH. Katharina-von-Bora-Str. 3 80333 München Deutschland”, but they can try over the EU route, or sue over each Country.
In Australia its “Apple Pty Limited ABN 46 002 510 054. Our registered office is at 20 Martin Place, Sydney NSW 2000, Australia.”

Australia simply depends of the USA, and fear getting into any economic troubles, and prefer being USA’s pet.

Isn’t part of the case about breaking a signed contract.

https://developer.apple.com/terms/apple-developer-agreement/Apple-Developer-Agreement-English.pdf

17. Governing Law. This Agreement will be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California, excluding its conflict of law provisions. The parties further submit to and waive any objections to personal jurisdiction of and venue in any of the following forums: U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, California Superior Court for Santa Clara County, Santa Clara County Municipal Court, or any other forum in Santa Clara County, for any disputes arising out of this Agreement.

 

[cmaier]

Isn’t part of the case about breaking a signed contract.

https://developer.apple.com/terms/apple-developer-agreement/Apple-Developer-Agreement-English.pdf

17. Governing Law. This Agreement will be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California, excluding its conflict of law provisions. The parties further submit to and waive any objections to personal jurisdiction of and venue in any of the following forums: U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, California Superior Court for Santa Clara County, Santa Clara County Municipal Court, or any other forum in Santa Clara County, for any disputes arising out of this Agreement.

No, that is not part of the Australian case.

 

[Morgenland]

Not only, the EU won't climb up into usa's ass in the case...

What is the point of this unpleasant comment?

 

[PlainBelliedSneetch]

No, that is not part of the Australian case.

Oh, I guess that was Apple’s barrister who made that comment. I assumed it was because it was part of the case.

'Two Goliaths': Apple labels Epic's Australian challenge to in-app purchases 'self-serving'

Federal court to decide whether Fortnite maker’s case can be heard while legal action under way in US

www.theguardian.com

“Epic wants to ignore its … contractual promise to litigate only in the northern district of California.”

 

[Morgenland]

I want to see the final bill for the lawyers when this is all said and done. No way Epic will recoup that money anytime soon.

Emotional player or rational strategist. I think Epic are the former.

 

[I7guy]

That's not what this decision means. It just means that if Apple is found guilty in US, it will automatically be considered guilty in Australia. The article title is obviously misleading.

And conversely, of course.

 

[I7guy]

What blows my mind that with all the legal fights, Tim still says Epic can come back to the store if they reverse their actions and comply. Steve wouldn’t be as nice.

Why not? If epic uploaded a compliant app; customers, epic and apple all win.

 

[Morgenland]

I think the most chic thing Epic has come up with are the woman's leggings. But even these are just copied.

 

[Morgenland]

No. Whether or not the named parties are the local subsidiaries doesn’t change the fact that all of the relevant witnesses, the allegedly bad actions, and the alleged harm, took place in the United States. If an Apple maps car ran over an epic employee in San Francisco, and the epic employee had a summer house in Australia, no Australian court is going to hear the case. This is a fundamental principle of law - when the nexus to a jurisdiction is slim, the jurisdiction won’t take the case unless it turns out that justice requires it. In this case, if the california judge refuses to take the Australian case (and she will refuse), then Australia will revisit.

...until November at the earliest. This early date announcement means: no interest in the game.

 

[Lihp8270]

As far as Kindle, you still can only buy books on a Kindle, or through a convoluted process from the app on a computer (MacOS) You and't buy books on the regular pages of Amaon.com

Maybe that’s regional. I bought a book for kindle from Amazon.Co.uk last week. Which I read via the kindle app on the iPad.

Bit of a pain I couldn’t buy in the kindle app, but I just bought it via the site on safari

 

[cmaier]

Oh, I guess that was Apple’s barrister who made that comment. I assumed it was because it was part of the case.

'Two Goliaths': Apple labels Epic's Australian challenge to in-app purchases 'self-serving'

Federal court to decide whether Fortnite maker’s case can be heard while legal action under way in US

www.theguardian.com

“Epic wants to ignore its … contractual promise to litigate only in the northern district of California.”

That’s a different issue. Apple is not asserting its contract claims (the ones it asserted in California) in Australia.

They did, however, argue that Epic was contractually obligated to sue only in California; they didn’t assert that as a breach of contract in Australia, however. They simply argued, to the court, that because of the contract, the court in australia could not hear Epic’s complaints.

 

[theotherphil]

As far as Kindle, you still can only buy books on a Kindle, or through a convoluted process from the app on a computer (MacOS) You and't buy books on the regular pages of Amaon.com

Yes you can, I buy all my kindle books this way. Navigate to amazon.com and in the top left menu, select kindle books. You can even decide what device to send it to.

 

[theotherphil]

It has nothing to do for being an American Company or not. Usually you have to sue where the Company is registered and operate. E.g here in Germany it’s “Apple GmbH. Katharina-von-Bora-Str. 3 80333 München Deutschland”, but they can try over the EU route, or sue over each Country.
In Australia its “Apple Pty Limited ABN 46 002 510 054. Our registered office is at 20 Martin Place, Sydney NSW 2000, Australia.”

Australia simply depends of the USA, and fear getting into any economic troubles, and prefer being USA’s pet.

Not at all, both companies are headquartered in the US and that's where all the decision making is done from. Nobody from Apple Germany or Australia makes ANY decisions on the iOS App Store. All discovery, depositions, witnesses and fact finding will need to be done from the US as this is where ALL the decisions are made around the iOS App Store. Once that trial has ran, other jurisdictions will be in a position to make judgements based on that information, translated into local laws.

It would only go ahead here in Australia if a) This was the first jurisdiction Epic filed claim in or b) the iOS App Store was fundamentally different from the US store and was ran locally from Apple Australia, which it is not.

 

[Lwio]

What was that game that Epic makes....

 

[1258186]

I hope that after that happens, the attack vectors that are opened up (allowing apps signed by other arbitrary app stores to execute, resulting in you visiting a website and an app silently being installed in the background) don’t result in you losing to much of the money in your bank account.

I have download hundreds of apps onto my Mac from outside the Mac AppStore and that has never happened to me once.

Conspiracy theories and scare stories will not put me off wanting more choice.

 

[1258186]

I hope that after that happens, the attack vectors that are opened up (allowing apps signed by other arbitrary app stores to execute, resulting in you visiting a website and an app silently being installed in the background) don’t result in you losing to much of the money in your bank account.

Plenty of people have lost money from scam apps in the iOS AppStore. How do you explain that?

 

[qoop]

I think the most chic thing Epic has come up with are the woman's leggings. But even these are just copied.

View attachment 1756068

I think they're disco pants

 

[1258186]

I'm still baffled that Epic thought the best way to mitigate their declining revenue is to spend even more money in lawsuits.

What is your source for the claim their revenues were declining? From what I’ve read they seem to be a successful company growing rapidly.

 

[cmaier]

Plenty of people have lost money from scam apps in the iOS AppStore. How do you explain that?

How many people?
So because it’s not perfect now, it’s not a problem to make it much worse?

 

[JHV2]

Just like Facebook and the privacy opt-in the real reason is corporate profits, but it is more palatable if we pretend it’s for the consumers.