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You are ignoring the fact that most people do not know which one is default due to DMA does not allow you to have a preferred option.

Actually the parameters of the default is well defined in the DMA. Users can then decide what are their preferred options. It's no different than say macOS.

Are you now rewriting the DMA? I think you are making excuses as you go along.

Apple is not one of your EU infrastructure old money natural monopoly corporation.

There is nothing monopolistic about the DMA. Quite the contrary, the objective is to keep the market as open and liberal as possible away from new steering tactics made possible through new technological advancements. It is applied to all companies, domestic or foreign.

In fact I find it interesting that in all your rhetoric around monopolistic favoritism you seam convinced the main Apple competitors in the EU are from the EU. Well, they aren't. There goes your monopolistic theory out of the Window. Instead, exposes quite the contrary.

This is not "just adding another option". This is killing the current option by adding another option that do not benefit end user but greatly benefit large corporations.

There is no current option for hundreds of millions of users on the EU open internet when it comes to buying, selling, distributing and accessing third party Apps on their smartphone. Case in case iOS users. For these there is only one way, one policy, one retailer on their smartphone. A retailer that in turn is also an apps and digital services competitor against users for users.

So it's not killing any option. It's instead requiring the above to be an option across all Gatekeepers platforms instead of a fatality when users buy a their favorite smartphone.

This regulation is illegal as hell and are hurting end user as a result.

According to which law? Obviously you failed basic law classes.

Where is it hurting end users? Is macOS built hurt users? Hallucinated rhetoric.

Oh and goodbye to the current iOS security boundary which was set by Apple since 2007. A fully closed system is considered broken whenever there's a crack.

Your closed system is systematically being broken and patched every year in case you did not noticed. Fresh this month: https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/n...es-security-vulnerabilities-in-ios-and-ipados

Now, I understand that you consider a security breach, a hack as you put it, giving users the final decision on how to access, buy, sell and distribute their digital services and Apps on their own core personal computers and smartphones regardless of platform. It is funny because, I find that Apple shareholders are usually the ones with such as far-right views for the future. I would say it not even intentional, is just their instinct to protect their holy caw as much as possible.

Your rhetoric is snake oil. Why? Well several times in this interaction you were caught in incongruent reasoning schemes. Presenting false dilemmas as an argumentation tactic to convince people. Using alternative ontologies and orthographies for well know concepts. If you were true to the nature of things, that wouldn't be the case at all.

You go to the point of using old ladies and technology illeterates as an excuse to constrain basic human liberties in favor of a private company while playing with human insecurities. I find this behavior intellectually despicable.

Stop, man, Just stop. It's just a phone. It is a very important component of an open communication infrastructure, it has grown with it. The rest is just busine$$$. The security part needs to be sorted both technically, making software easier to operate and educating users. It's definitely not by taking the ability for people to decide for themselves as the default modus operandi on such important matters as described above. Which in the end, if Apple iOS modus had its way into the open EU communication infrastructure and the Internet has whole, this practice would spread to the point that in 20 years no individual or organization would be able to sell or access a thing without authorization from these and others Gatekeepers that would for sure claim for the same rights at scale.

The DMA is here to stay. There is nothing illegal about it. In fact, is part of the EU law.
 
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Well good for you then that WhatsApp is forced by DMA to implement interoperability with other messaging services.

Yes.. 3 apps in total that works for 7 days before it must be reinstalled or stop working.

The single biggest benefactor is Apple themselves. Everyone, even small and big companies loose on it compared to Apple.

What’s illegal about it?

I do love the irony, but the apps don’t owe you access from the AppStore. If it’s a negative thing for you, then choose the apps only in the store.

Burning money? It’s doing exactly what’s the elected officials asked it to according to the founding principles of EU. How long do you think the EU takes to pass such laws compared to the U.S.?

The EU is what a small government looks like. Its budget is 1%~ of EU GDP

If they can use android phones then they can use iPhones with a few extra features.

Dozens? You mean two choices that are done once at start of curated options?
This destroys what made iPhone iPhone.
Asking Apple to go back pre-2007 is never a sane action when Apple is in the lead in the UX.

2 popups is way more than 0 popup and any popup is a deal breaker for those could not understand what the hell this question is. Do not ask user any question they can not answer is a UX rule and making this rule illegal in EU is so dumb and they are hurting real user's choice.

iPhone stopped this non-sense 17 years ago and you are saying going back to pre-2007 will not hurt anyone.
App owe me access from the AppStore because this is how Apple changed the world since 2007. Small developer finally can reach large amount of users. Going back is only benefiting huge corporation that can distribute from their own platform.
 
This destroys what made iPhone iPhone.

People having the final decision of how to legally access, buy, sell and distribute their goods and digital services on their smartphones and personal computers to their customers and from their suppliers will destroy the iPhone? Any device whose survival relies on taking this away from hundreds millions of people and organizations, absolutely should be destroyed!

But that is not the case at all. What a forest of false dilemmas you have in your pocket to swing away as you please. But I get ya. You have very little faith on what Apple as achieved and that rendered them trillions for good measure. No matter how hard you try to convince people that is the case, they can see for themselves that is not the case. Heck most even bought it before even knowing what the App Store was but the place they could download whatever Apps they wanted, supposedly. Not being able to download any legal app or access any digital service through an App because it may conflict with Apple business interests was definitely not part of the deal. In fact quite the opposite. Heck not even the App Store is in threat of destruction by such a sensible regulation.

Do not ask user any question they can not answer is a UX rule and making this rule illegal in EU is so dumb and they are hurting real user's choice.

What question users cannot answer that the UX is in this context eliminating?
 
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The DMA is protectionist, not monopolistic. It targets US companies so as to favour their own local businesses, becsuse their own rules and business climate mean that you will never see another Apple emerge from those countries. So the only alternative is to regulate the other tech giants.
 
The DMA is protectionist, not monopolistic. It targets US companies so as to favour their own local businesses, becsuse their own rules and business climate mean that you will never see another Apple emerge from those countries. So the only alternative is to regulate the other tech giants.

How can it target US companies specifically if the source of Apple contention on these matters is mostly between US companies? Epic, Microsoft, Google and so on have been discussed many times in this forum.

The fact that most large scale operators on the Internet in the EU are American is not only a testament of American entepreneuship but also EU openness to US entrepreneurs. You and other are trying to paint a dystopian reality, just because your holy cow policies are under scrutiny like many before have, domestic or foreign. Hopefully will see plenty of Apples emerging in the west provided that we all survive or avoid a third.

Now, the EU is protectionist when it comes to keeping their communication infrastructure open and the operation of the an Internet also open in their region. It's also protectionist when it comes to any and All persons and organizations having the final word regarding how they legally buy, sell, distribute legal goods and digital services as well as privacy. Not even governments can take that away for their own profit/power. It’s a society governed by the rule of law, not despotism, technical or otherwise. The EU believes this is an existential freedom that makes democracies including its economy what they are.

Technological advancements should empower choice, safety, privacy and democratic participation. Not take away. I thought America was on the same page regarding this way of organization as hard as it can be such pursue.
 
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This destroys what made iPhone iPhone.
Asking Apple to go back pre-2007 is never a sane action when Apple is in the lead in the UX.

2 popups is way more than 0 popup and any popup is a deal breaker for those could not understand what the hell this question is. Do not ask user any question they can not answer is a UX rule and making this rule illegal in EU is so dumb and they are hurting real user's choice.

iPhone stopped this non-sense 17 years ago and you are saying going back to pre-2007 will not hurt anyone.
I think you should perhaps consider how the iPhone has been sett up for many years now.

And the first year of the iPhone it didn’t have an AppStore. iPhone launched June 29, 2007 The App Store opened on July 10, 2008
App owe me access from the AppStore because this is how Apple changed the world since 2007. Small developer finally can reach large amount of users. Going back is only benefiting huge corporation that can distribute from their own platform.
No they don’t. If a developer decides to leave the AppStore and pull their app and go to the Google play store, there nothing you can legally or morally do to force them to stay.

Them leaving the AppStore (instead of multi homing) and going to an alternative store is their liberty to exercise.

This benefits small developers who can publish their apps on multiple stores and get better deals than being stuck with apples.
 
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The DMA is protectionist, not monopolistic. It targets US companies so as to favour their own local businesses, becsuse their own rules and business climate mean that you will never see another Apple emerge from those countries. So the only alternative is to regulate the other tech giants.
Why are you always spreading intentionally false information? For every 1 EU company you can think of I’ll likely able to list 10 US companies that will benefit from it as well.

you honestly think ONLY local EU businesses will benefit and any other will just suffer?

What about Microsoft, Epic games, EA, zynga, Roblox studio, PopCap games, Valve, Itch.io etc etc. you think they won’t benefit from it? Small developers won’t benefit from having a stronger negotiating power against Apple?
 
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This is a product by its whole. If you absolutely hate one part of it, don't buy it.
There's other options that you can choose.

I understand that you hate more of those other options but this is how product works. Unless you are Steve himself you cannot build something that 100% suit your requirements with nothing you hate in it.

Sideload is hurting the integrated experience for everyone. EPIC is already doing PR noise to put their popular games sideload only. If whatsapp is asking the same and pull off AppStore listing how can anyone stay with the integrated experience?

This is not "just adding another option". This is killing the current option by adding another option that do not benefit end user but greatly benefit large corporations.

Oh and goodbye to the current iOS security boundary which was set by Apple since 2007. A fully closed system is considered broken whenever there's a crack. You can never say "I want this crack for a feature". No crack should be allowed and all features have to be done in a way that do not crack the system. That's why it takes almost 10 yeas to have IME in iOS and why it takes more than 10 years to get third part JIT in iOS.

iPhone 2G can run JIT but it cannot run it securely so that any 3rd party app could use. Instead of building an insecure phone Apple wait until the phone is powerful enough to release this feature. If you open up iOS then this system is insecure as hell as you could imagine due to its security boundary was set at AppStore level instead of system level.
If adding such an innocuous option is so damaging to the ecosystem it means it was never as secure as stated in the marketing material in the first place. AKA Apple has successfully convinced you and many others to believe their lies that sideloading is inherently less secure, despite touting macOS, a system that does support sideloading, as a super secure OS.

If you think this doesn't improve users' experiences, like, at all, you need to talk to more people outside your bubble.
 
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Same as Android? You don't feel Apple with its talent and resources can create a quality iOS that gives users the option to sideload, use alternative app stores, alternative payment options, alternative browser engines, etc. (allowing more choice and competition) while keeping it a better experience than Android whether the user continues to use it the "old way" or tries new alternatives?
I have to agree with you on this. All this talent and almost infinite resources, and the things they produce and deliver lately is nothing to be super proud of. I'm not even sure what are all these people working on there. Walking in circles? I understand products and software is getting more complex, but c'mon, they can and must do better! But yes, I do agree with you. I just think that the way it should be done is different. Without government. But I guess Apple will never let go of control. If they would be willing to do this the proper way, it would be much better for everyone. I think iphone & ios is to Apple, what office is to Microsoft. Big pie that they do not want to share :)

So would you say MacOS is the same crap as android? That macOS is just a carbon copy of the android and windows system?

Could we not perhaps make iOS closer to macOS is some of the design features? Such as running software from outside the store, using other browser engines etc?
I would say that MacOS or macOS is on another level then android. But first time I hear that it is a CC of android or windows. But ok ok, I know what you mean. The experience I had with android was with all the cheap vendors, and that was horrible. I did not try newest vanilla android, so can't speak for that. But to be fair, I would like for Apple to grant us bit more freedom. The existing way of maintaining my devices is cumbersome. I would like drag&drop app installation from mac. Actually I still have some old macd with huge old .ipa library, that I still sync and maintain my older iPads, or gaming iPhones and iPods. New apps are just horrible in this regard, not to mention that you no longer are allowed to have apps on the mac. Same with music. Its either or. If I sync all my 100+gb library to my iphone, half of the album artwork is missing. If I manually manage (drag and drop) via Waltr app, there is no issues. All music is there with all proper artworks. So yes, it would be nice to have a bit more control. I'm just worried that with all this, we would loose proper and reliable tool with quite a safe envirinment.

One of the reasons why I'm on mac is that I like to use my mac and iphone as a tool. I don't like to baby it, take care of the software maintenence, security and all this other crap. I use them like simple tools that just work. I used to have windows machines, that needed babysiting, reinstaling at least once or twice a year, you need to be carefult with all the viruses and spyware. Same with android. I have to maintain, reinstall, remove spyware apps form some extended family android phones. I hate that. It is time consuming, and I just don't want to deal with it. Sorry this got out of hand. Just don't want to have the same experience with mac or ios.
 
I have to agree with you on this. All this talent and almost infinite resources, and the things they produce and deliver lately is nothing to be super proud of. I'm not even sure what are all these people working on there. Walking in circles? I understand products and software is getting more complex, but c'mon, they can and must do better! But yes, I do agree with you. I just think that the way it should be done is different. Without government. But I guess Apple will never let go of control. If they would be willing to do this the proper way, it would be much better for everyone. I think iphone & ios is to Apple, what office is to Microsoft. Big pie that they do not want to share :)


I would say that MacOS or macOS is on another level then android. But first time I hear that it is a CC of android or windows. But ok ok, I know what you mean. The experience I had with android was with all the cheap vendors, and that was horrible. I did not try newest vanilla android, so can't speak for that. But to be fair, I would like for Apple to grant us bit more freedom. The existing way of maintaining my devices is cumbersome. I would like drag&drop app installation from mac. Actually I still have some old macd with huge old .ipa library, that I still sync and maintain my older iPads, or gaming iPhones and iPods. New apps are just horrible in this regard, not to mention that you no longer are allowed to have apps on the mac. Same with music. Its either or. If I sync all my 100+gb library to my iphone, half of the album artwork is missing. If I manually manage (drag and drop) via Waltr app, there is no issues. All music is there with all proper artworks. So yes, it would be nice to have a bit more control. I'm just worried that with all this, we would loose proper and reliable tool with quite a safe envirinment.

One of the reasons why I'm on mac is that I like to use my mac and iphone as a tool. I don't like to baby it, take care of the software maintenence, security and all this other crap. I use them like simple tools that just work. I used to have windows machines, that needed babysiting, reinstaling at least once or twice a year, you need to be carefult with all the viruses and spyware. Same with android. I have to maintain, reinstall, remove spyware apps form some extended family android phones. I hate that. It is time consuming, and I just don't want to deal with it. Sorry this got out of hand. Just don't want to have the same experience with mac or ios.
I would say one thing I miss about iOS is using iTunes( even tho it was horribly bloated software) to browse the store and sync apps purchased, copying over a copy of IPA files I had backupd of an older version or no longer available. I used the old iTunes on windows until it was deprecated

And now it’s simply all done on device I find unessarily clunky in the way it’s restricted.

And do the first part, when people tend to say iPhone is becoming like android I’m always baffled as I see it getting more like MacOS. I used to own an old 2012 first generation Retina MacBook Pro. It held out amazingly well, that I sold a few years ago.

And in the beginning I really tried to only use the Macappstore for all my purchases, if an app was available in more places I would always use the Macappstore version. But I did notice it tended to be a downgraded version, be outdated and worst of all when it was a game that had a windows version, the purchase was essentially lost if I ever used windows. And Steam was just a better store in every way without sacrificing user privacy or experience.

I would love to have steam as the game store in iOS. And the fact it can’t shows the lack of innovation and competition when we just do a simple comparison of the two.
 
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