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Then Apple should start marketing the iPhone for children instead of adults.

Users can stay with the default option if they choose that, iPhones aren’t in any shape or form becoming pre 2007. It becomes like 2024 macOS.

Such as? You are infantilizing adults and isn’t an accepted legal right to harm the market.
No adults are required to be geek on gadgets. Same applies to almost everything. A law should not ask you to get a degree in whatever context it covers.

"Don't ask end user any question they cannot answer" is a UX design philosophy. If you don't like it then don't buy it. We all know that this is how iPhone becomes THE smart device that everyone can use. Children and elder are all welcomed by this instead of your elitist geeky invention. You will one day become elder and hope you like your own altitude towards them today.
 
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That is a false dilemma. The rest of the post is just an exploration of it. Which of course can only lead to equally false conclusions and justifications.

You are nevertheless correct in one thing. Such argumentation tactics works well with stupid people. Nice try though.

PS: False dillema
Having any option is still false dilemma since the user have no idea what those choices means.
If now you are giving an option to make and it's written in enigma, how will you choose it?

As an end user no option is the best option. I don't want to be crazy with phone, I just want to use it. The default may not works best for everyone but definitely works okay enough to make everyone happy and nobody need to get a degree in computer science to get this okay enough result.
That's how Apple beat Nokia and Windows Mobile out of the business. Finally a device that is built for user not for programmers.
 
I never quite understand someone defending a trillion dollar company whose sole intent with the changes they've done is to make more money.
I'm not defending trillion $ company, but I hate when government interferes with my life. I hate that stupid android companies want apple to be the same SH*t as android. I hate that they are making my preferred company to change in complete opposite direction. I choose iphone, ipad because I lake the way they are and that it is the biggest selling point for me. If they destroys this experience I have, and I premium for it, then I will have no choice!
 
I'm not defending trillion $ company, but I hate when government interferes with my life. I hate that stupid android companies want apple to be the same SH*t as android. I hate that they are making my preferred company to change in complete opposite direction. I choose iphone, ipad because I lake the way they are and that it is the biggest selling point for me. If they destroys this experience I have, and I premium for it, then I will have no choice!

Same as Android? You don't feel Apple with its talent and resources can create a quality iOS that gives users the option to sideload, use alternative app stores, alternative payment options, alternative browser engines, etc. (allowing more choice and competition) while keeping it a better experience than Android whether the user continues to use it the "old way" or tries new alternatives?
 
Same as Android? You don't feel Apple with its talent and resources can create a quality iOS that gives users the option to sideload, use alternative app stores, alternative payment options, alternative browser engines, etc. (allowing more choice and competition) while keeping it a better experience than Android whether the user continues to use it the "old way" or tries new alternatives?
By the logic of people who are fighting against this macOS and Windows are exactly the same in terms of usability, quality, and enjoyability, because they both allow sideloading and alternative browser engines.
 
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I'm not defending trillion $ company, but I hate when government interferes with my life. I hate that stupid android companies want apple to be the same SH*t as android. I hate that they are making my preferred company to change in complete opposite direction. I choose iphone, ipad because I lake the way they are and that it is the biggest selling point for me. If they destroys this experience I have, and I premium for it, then I will have no choice!
Calm down. Its a cell phone, there is no reason to be hateful about anything here.
 
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As an end user no option is the best option.

If there are no options in context, nothing is an option. On top of this arguing in such context that something is the best option its a false argument. This phrase is a contradiction in terms, hence eternally false no matter the context.

Having any option is still false dilemma since the user have no idea what those choices means.
If now you are giving an option to make and it's written in enigma, how will you choose it?

Again you proceed with false dilemmas. You manufactured a scenario where for someone to have options, such as the ones under discussion, the user can no longer understand them. Which of course is not a representation of what happens in reality. When was the last time you went outside your pocket?

I respect your need not to have options on your iPhone. Just accept the defaults manufacturer as provided you and stick with it. How difficult is that? You can ignore the entire Settings page … maybe you should have the option to remove it entirely and throw away the key when setting up your device.

Look. In the EU open communication infrastructure (open regarding people access and supply of digital services, content and software at their discretion and according to the law) members with mass scale business and technical platforms need to conform with some regulations that aim to keep it just like that. That is all. It has proven to be a model that had created unimaginable wealth, it made possible the existence of Apple as an example. No company will be able to hack its openness to their profit trough any kind of device as well intentioned and innovative it might be at some point.

The EU does not seam inclined to implement models as the ones being implemented by China. For instance, making deals with specific companies like Apple, telling Apple which Apps they may or not have in the App Store, including, default Apps all for the give to be able to spy on their citizens in real time. It’s quite the contrary, neither govs or private companies should have such power over hundreds of millions of people and businesses.

Take for instance Amazon, a massive retail close system, yet at no cost, with a touch a button, users can choose a different retailer. Yes they also sell devices locked into their retail business, yet this part of their business it’s not yet at a scale of a Gatekeeper … if that comes they will need to comply with the DMA regulations as well if that isn’t the case.

So the DMA. Take it or leave it. Of course it can change as the problem domain is better understood with the help its members, including Apple. What the EU does not seam inclined to do, is to let companies build super massive closed platforms as part of their open Internet & General Communication infrastructure. That seams to be the kind of approach that more closed economies such as China seam to be more interested in. The Apple challenge of today in China, Tim Cook Apple, is that it’s not a Chinese company, otherwise its policies and marketing would fit like a glove in that region.

Cheers.
 
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Same as Android? You don't feel Apple with its talent and resources can create a quality iOS that gives users the option to sideload, use alternative app stores, alternative payment options, alternative browser engines, etc. (allowing more choice and competition) while keeping it a better experience than Android whether the user continues to use it the "old way" or tries new alternatives?
Why should apple do any of the above? Microsoft already tried that.
 
Why should apple do any of the above? Microsoft already tried that.

Because they want to give customers a quality Apple/iOS/iPhone experience that provides them with an option to sideload, an option to use alternative app stores, an option to use alternative payment systems, an option to use alternative browser engines, etc.
 
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Because they want to give customers a quality Apple/iOS/iPhone experience that provides them with an option to sideload, an option to use alternative app stores, an option to use alternative payment systems, an option to use alternative browser engines, etc.
Their market valuation and number of users says all that needs to be said about how their ecosystem is structured.

Because some here on macrumors want other functionality doesn’t mean the majority do.
 
Their market valuation and number of users says all that needs to be said about how their ecosystem is structured.

Number of iPhone users ... well my assumption is that iOS/iPhone market share is unrelated to the fact that there is only one place iPhone users have to get their Apps and Digital Services, one supplier, aka the App Store. Your assumption is that it is precisely because of that, iPhones got the market share it enjoys in the EU.

Will see how the DMA compliance affects the iOS/iPhone marketshare in the EU. If it affects negatively you are right. If not, I am.

The DMA is not concerned with how shareholders evaluate a specific company, so such issue is totally tangent. Is up to Apple to bring more value to its users and shareholders according to the laws and regulation in a place and at a time.

It is as simple as that.

PS: How is this not news around here?
 
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Number of iPhone users ... well my assumption is that iOS/iPhone market share is unrelated the fact that there is only one place iPhone users have to get their Apps and Digital Services, one supplier, aka the App Store. Your assumption is that it is precisely because of that, iPhones got the market share it enjoys in the EU.

Will see how the DMA compliance affects the iOS/iPhone marketshare in the EU. If it affects negatively you are right. If not, I am.

The DMA is not concerned with how shareholders evaluate a specific company, so such issue is totally tangent. Is up to Apple to bring more value to its users and shareholders according to the laws and regulation in a place and at a time.

It is as simple as that.
Ask blackberry if keeping users “happy” is important.
PS: How is this not news around here?
Because similar things happened on intel chips?
 
Their market valuation and number of users says all that needs to be said about how their ecosystem is structured.

Because some here on macrumors want other functionality doesn’t mean the majority do.

Why do you assume if Apple were to create an iOS that adequately maintained the qualities which some may prefer (one app store, one payment system, no sideloading, etc.) while also providing the option to sideload, use alternative app stores, use alternative payment systems, etc. it wouldn’t potentially help make the iPhone attractive to an even greater or wider range of customers?

"Open garden" Android-based phones are more popular in many countries, including wealthy ones, so your "number of users" argument can go both ways and therefore doesn't necessarily show anything re: open versus closed.
 
No adults are required to be geek on gadgets. Same applies to almost everything. A law should not ask you to get a degree in whatever context it covers.
Giving the user a choice of a browser and store isn’t computer science or the need for a degree.
"Don't ask end user any question they cannot answer" is a UX design philosophy. If you don't like it then don't buy it. We all know that this is how iPhone becomes THE smart device that everyone can use. Children and elder are all welcomed by this instead of your elitist geeky invention. You will one day become elder and hope you like your own altitude towards them today.
Such as? What’s question do you think users can’t answer? Giving clear consent? Getting a clear choice in a curated list once ?
 
Why do you assume if Apple were to create an iOS that adequately maintained the qualities which some may prefer (one app store, one payment system, no sideloading, etc.) while also providing the option to sideload, use alternative app stores, use alternative payment systems, etc. it wouldn’t potentially help make the iPhone attractive to an even greater or wider range of customers?

"Open garden" Android-based phones are more popular in many countries, including wealthy ones, so your "number of users" argument can go both ways and therefore doesn't necessarily show anything re: open versus closed.
What I assume is that apple did their homework as to what their customers want. Seems like they know their roadmap better than MR posters and balance out the functionality against their requirements.
 
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What I assume is that apple did their homework as to what their customers want. Seems like they know their roadmap better than MR posters and balance out the functionality against their requirements.
Historicaly speaking they haven’t. Seems to be more to what the stock owners want.

Knowing their roadmap doesn’t mean it’s what customers want.
I'm not defending trillion $ company, but I hate when government interferes with my life. I hate that stupid android companies want apple to be the same SH*t as android. I hate that they are making my preferred company to change in complete opposite direction. I choose iphone, ipad because I lake the way they are and that it is the biggest selling point for me. If they destroys this experience I have, and I premium for it, then I will have no choice!
So would you say MacOS is the same crap as android? That macOS is just a carbon copy of the android and windows system?

Could we not perhaps make iOS closer to macOS is some of the design features? Such as running software from outside the store, using other browser engines etc?
 
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Ask blackberry if keeping users “happy” is important.

Did you need to ask them? I could tell you that it is and that it is not an easy task at all.

Don’t understand how this is a counter argument to what I’ve said. BlackBerry was “nothing” in the EU, but Nokia, Ericsson, Sony, HTC (windows mobile) …. were. The iPhone was just a way better smartphone, a technology jump. The Web Browser, Photos, Music Player / iPod, GPS/Google Maps, Mail along with smooth visuals and an extremely responsive touch language was a killer combination. The ability to install apps just took over it the board.

Just the responsive touch language took years for the competition to get close. It did not just stop there. Take Siri, the first workable voice enabled digital assistant … so many innovations in the space of 5 years.

On top of this, its price. Inspite of being double the price of many smartphones at the time yet it worked and it was also half price of many flagships of its competitors and miles better. Pair this with a subsidized model … man. Steve Jobs was an incredible leader.
 
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What I assume is that apple did their homework as to what their customers want. Seems like they know their roadmap better than MR posters and balance out the functionality against their requirements.

So, you think Apple's "homework" showed that users wouldn't want the option to sideload, use alternative app stores, alternative payment options, alternative browser engines, etc. (allowing more choice and competition) while keeping it a better experience than Android whether the user continues to use it the "old way" or tries new alternatives?
 
So, you think Apple's "homework" showed that users wouldn't want the option to sideload, use alternative app stores, alternative payment options, alternative browser engines, etc. (allowing more choice and competition) while keeping it a better experience than Android whether the user continues to use it the "old way" or tries new alternatives?
Yes. That’s what I think apples homework showed. In my opinion.
 
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Did you need to ask them? I could tell you that it is and that it is not an easy task at all.
Yes. You should. Because they went from the top of the heap to nothing.
Don’t understand how this is a counter argument to what I’ve said. BlackBerry was “nothing” in the EU, but Nokia, Ericsson, Sony, HTC (windows mobile) …. were. The iPhone was just a way better smartphone, a technology jump. The Web Browser, Photos, Music Player / iPod, GPS/Google Maps, Mail along with smooth visuals and an extremely responsive touch language was a killer combination. The ability to install apps just took over it the board.

Just the responsive touch language took years for the competition to get close. It did not just stop there. Take Siri, the first workable voice enabled digital assistant … so many innovations in the space of 5 years.

On top of this, it’s price. Inspite of being double the price of many smartphones at the time yet it worked and it was also half price of many flagships of its competitors and miles better. Pair this with a subsidized model … man. Steve Jobs was an incredible leader.
Apple spent time, money and effort to get the iPhone right and operate their business in a legal way in every location.
 
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Historicaly speaking they haven’t. Seems to be more to what the stock owners want.
I disagree. I think they have.
Knowing their roadmap doesn’t mean it’s what customers want.
Again. I believe apple knows what it’s customers want better than Mac rumors posters.
So would you say MacOS is the same crap as android? That macOS is just a carbon copy of the android and windows system?
What does this have to do with apple knows what it’s customers want?
Could we not perhaps make iOS closer to macOS is some of the design features? Such as running software from outside the store, using other browser engines etc?
Sure. But is that what the majority of its customers want? I mean laws could come out forcing apple to do that.
 
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