EU Competition Chief Tells Apple Not to Use Privacy as a Shield Against Competition

[Grey Area]

Or Apple will just pull all of their devices out of the EU while the rest of the world gets to enjoy Apple’s products.

Apple will argue and complain in the EU, but if they cannot win their case I am sure they will do as they are told, rather than pull out and lose all those EU-profits. Europe is a (slightly) more valuable market than China, vastly more valuable than Russia, and Apple was willing to compromise its sacred stance on privacy to keep the Chinese and Russian markets.

Granted, China has additional leverage via Apple's addiction to Chinese manufacturing. But the EU-demands are considerably less questionable from a moral perspective, if they can be considered questionable at all. If Apple is willing to bend over backwards in China and Russia, doing a little curtsy in the EU is a small concession to secure the profits at stake.

I think it is great how Apple is standing up against Facebook, tracking and the like. But I have no doubt that profit is their only constant guiding principle, and that Apple will adjust or abandon their ethics whenever necessary to protect their profits.

 

[genovelle]

Someone sees pass Apple's veiled excuses for what it really is: an attempt to stiffle competition to it's Appstore. Most people won't bother with sideloading or alternative appstores, but let those who dare jump in with eyes wide open.

Standard practice for software problems is to do a factory reset, ie wipe all your data. Anyone who wants to sideload shouldn't come weeping to Apple to fix user error.

The bigger problem with sideloading is that the outside stores becomes equal and the difference will be required to be unknown. If the problem is supposed to be competition, Apple will be banned from promoting their solution as better. So, when a non techie clicks on a link to a popular app they may go to Apple or some Russian server that looks like the App Store and download a counterfeit app that secretly takes over your device and collects all of your credit card numbers, passwords and account info.

 

[bollman]

If people in this thread is by any means to be considered "the general public", we are all doomed.

 

[Solomani]

EU: Hey Apple, stop using "privacy rights" as an excuse to monopolistic abuses.

Apple: Hey EU, stop using "consumer protection" as an excuse to totalitarian state control.



If the EU (a political body) wants to keep butting into Apple's business, then Apple should have every right to meddle in EU politics, and spend millions lobbying and funding dissident Euro politicians that will overthrow the current administration in Brussels.

 

[Velli]

EU: Hey Apple, stop using "privacy rights" as an excuse to monopolistic abuses.

Apple: Hey EU, stop using "consumer protection" as an excuse to totalitarian state control.



If the EU (a political body) wants to keep butting into Apple's business, then Apple should have every right to meddle in EU politics, and spend millions lobbying and funding dissident Euro politicians that will overthrow the current administration in Brussels.

Yeah, that’s how democracy works 🙄

 

[Velli]

If people in this thread is by any means to be considered "the general public", we are all doomed.

Luckily, we are not. We are the types of customers that Apple specifically do not design iOS devices for. Which is very hard to grasp for most of us, especially those of us that are extremist fanboys.

I’m willing to bet that the majority of the actual target audience doesn’t even know which company runs the app store. A large proportion would probably say “Google”.

 

[justperry]

They can raise the taxes margin. That's all they can go after. Money Talks.

I'm sure if Apple offers $$$ to this chief.. he won't be talking this nonsense.

These Government officials needs to stay out. They do not know what they are talking about.

You have no idea what you're talking about, starting with HE
this chief is actually a she.

 

[AlexESP]

Saying that giving the option to sideload won’t have any effect on people who don’t want to use it is the kind of thinking why some short sighted Apple competitors fail. “Giving users the option” is usually not caring about the product: throw as many ports as you can, use you phone with mouse and keyboard, three biometric authentification methods at once… and it’s a shame that regulators want to decide how Apple should develop their products because they don’t agree. I have heard ZERO people demanding that Android should be closed, why is it admissible the other way around?

 

[One2Grift]

Let's ask the Americans who haven't had health insurance for the longest of times.

Senator Bernie Sanders suggested lowering Medicare to age 50, then upped it to 55. He got very few backers.(I would have thought that one an easy thing to get support)
Americans haven’t supported British style government healthcare. Don’t be offended, that’s just not for us (as of right now at least).
small side note, most have health insurance through work or through government subsidy.

 

[Glideslope]

There's bigger problems besides privacy if you need Apple's protection from your boss or government

10 years ago I would have agreed with this comment. Not so sure any longer. A lot more out in the open nefarious players in 2021 than 2011.

 

[Glideslope]

EU: Hey Apple, stop using "privacy rights" as an excuse to monopolistic abuses.

Apple: Hey EU, stop using "consumer protection" as an excuse to totalitarian state control.



If the EU (a political body) wants to keep butting into Apple's business, then Apple should have every right to meddle in EU politics, and spend millions lobbying and funding dissident Euro politicians that will overthrow the current administration in Brussels.

It’s coming. Get your popcorn out…………. 😉

 

[One2Grift]

Luckily, we are not. We are the types of customers that Apple specifically do not design iOS devices for. Which is very hard to grasp for most of us, especially those of us that are extremist fanboys.

I’m willing to bet that the majority of the actual target audience doesn’t even know which company runs the app store. A large proportion would probably say “Google”.

That’s well said. Apple designs much of their products for someone not particularly technically adept. They’re trying to keep it simple and allow fewest ways to get ‘into trouble’ (Fortunately there’s things to do on device and certainly if you put the eco together). Basically a ‘you don’t need to be concerned with it, just start using it’ user.

 

[One2Grift]

It’s coming. Get your popcorn out…………. 😉

Don’t bet on it quite yet. Some of it is bluster. The rest, They’re going to argue, in effect, Apple is a monopoly within Apple. That in itself may not fly. Further, if a malware hits big (which it could, unfortunately, at anytime), it’s going to be an interesting sell that Apple must expose phones to the internet, for consumers.
And if a big data breach happens to a competitor, it could be interesting for any argument against Apple.
Lastly, I assume this is capable of being appealed. The appeal will be gone to fullest and amount to more time. And at the end if this somehow goes against Apple, it won’t amount to much change. You can be sure Apple will have a plan for that (and Apple will not be pulling out of the EU).

 

[Grey Area]

I have heard ZERO people demanding that Android should be closed, why is it admissible the other way around?

Of course, why would anyone demand that Android should be closed? Doing so would hurt everyone except Google, and Google knows it is already on thin ice regarding monopolistic behavior. A step like that would take it even closer to a forced breakup.

 

[luigi408]

Works on Windows, Linux, and MacOS… it works for me. Make it happen EU and USA! I want to be able to download apps outside of the Apple Store!

Tired of all the apps going subscription? Well… I’m sure someone will make open source alternatives to compete.

Tired of Apple taking ideas (aka copying) from existing apps, and then forcing those app developers out of business? A side loaded app will probably be able to have access to the same APIs that Apple gets to use. Hopefully allowing developers to create better apps than Apple does. I wonder how Apple applications will fare once they aren’t allowed to force their apps on people vs the competition. I’m sure most people will start replacing Apple Photos with Google Photos or Adobe Lightroom. Safari browser with Chrome, Edge, or Firefox. Mail with Outlook or Gmail. Apple Music with Spotify or Tidal. Apple cannot compete (see MacOS). Which will force them to make better apps!!!!!

You all are kidding yourselves thinking Apple cares about you. They are in it for profit. They WANT you to be stuck with their own App Store so they can up sell you subscription to their own services and forcing developers to convert their app to subscriptions lol.

 

[gnipgnop]

Works on Windows, Linux, and MacOS… it works for me. Make it happen EU and USA! I want to be able to download apps outside of the Apple Store!

The problem is that the EU is claiming iOS is anticompetitive for software, yet software prices on iOS are definitely cheaper than they are on Windows/macOS. The EU has no actual proof that iOS is harmful to consumers on a cost basis.

 

[makitango]

"I think customers will not give up neither security nor privacy if they use another app store or if they sideload."

This is pretty laughable. Of course there is more risk to both security and privacy if you are side loading apps. That doesn't mean something bad will happen, but there is more risk - clearly.

Like that sideloaded apps don‘t get permission prompts for use of contact data, mic, camera and health data? Yeah right... actually they all do.
And just like when you „ask“ not to track you, tracking is „disabled“?

 

[Abazigal]

You all are kidding yourselves thinking Apple cares about you. They are in it for profit. They WANT you to be stuck with their own App Store so they can up sell you subscription to their own services and forcing developers to convert their app to subscriptions lol.

Of course Apple is in it for the profit. And they do so by offering me a great user experience, made possible by their control over hardware, software and services, that I happily pay a premium for.

In this regard, our interests are aligned. If anything, I feel Apple is not going far enough. ATT should have been released with iOS 14 last year. I want lockdown preinstalled on all iOS devices to enable tracker-blocking on a system level.

I have no qualms about paying for subscriptions either, if it means apps get updated in a timely fashion.

As I said - give me a good experience, and I will gladly pay.

 

[Ramchi]

"I think customers will not give up neither security nor privacy if they use another app store or if they sideload."

This is pretty laughable. Of course there is more risk to both security and privacy if you are side loading apps. That doesn't mean something bad will happen, but there is more risk - clearly.

Scare monsters are generally used against gullible to trap them into a predefined thought process, often seems to be legitimate. We all know that Apple is not fearing about privacy or security it is all about losing revenue through losing the control. I don't blame Apple for what they say or do, but people toeing their lines like soldiers really amuses me.

 

[Ramchi]

Of course Apple is in it for the profit. And they do so by offering me a great user experience, made possible by their control over hardware, software and services, that I happily pay a premium for.

In this regard, our interests are aligned. If anything, I feel Apple is not going far enough. ATT should have been released with iOS 14 last year. I want lockdown preinstalled on all iOS devices to enable tracker-blocking on a system level.

I have no qualms about paying for subscriptions either, if it means apps get updated in a timely fashion.

As I said - give me a good experience, and I will gladly pay.

You are welcome to pay premium and pay your entire earnings for Apple, and enjoy your experience. That doesn't mean other options cannot exist. Afterall, Apple charging users premium to own the devices. If cosumers are denied to have access to other App Stores then it is not the best interest of the customers! Apple never bated for the customers but use them against themselves through scare crows like Privacy, Security etc....

Having said that Apple indeed puts importance to these aspects but use them as their strategy to have control than otherwise

 

[Nuno Lopes]

They have a point. Currently you can install on your device hundreds of catfish applications, phishing applications, and data mining applications through Apple's own App Store. If they Apple wants to make this claim they better get their **** together.

Absolutely.

The commissioner is spot on. I don’t have a problem with Apple trying to brand Privacy and Security. I do have a problem when within that branding fences are being created to financially siphon and reduce competition when paired with their huge market share.

I believe that competition is key to assure security of user / citizen's. Totalitarian systems, either public or private aren’t the way for a better future. Even though China as far as financial and economical growth go … it’s quite fashionable.

For my surprise MS App Store in Windows 11 is showing innovation on this field.

Here is the thing that Apple all policy defenders can’t really answer. They postulate that if other forms of payment where allowed up the system would be less secure, private or even less profitable for developers. If that was the case why would people and devs choose alternative forms within iOS or macOS? This argument makes no sense.

 

[genovelle]

Senator Bernie Sanders suggested lowering Medicare to age 50, then upped it to 55. He got very few backers.(I would have thought that one an easy thing to get support)
Americans haven’t supported British style government healthcare. Don’t be offended, that’s just not for us (as of right now at least).
small side note, most have health insurance through work or through government subsidy.

I can tell you healthcare through employers is fragile, because if their group gets older and sicker the coverage gets weaker and more expensive for the employees as they adjust for more profitability. I had a friend get pushed out of a company after 10 years because he was too expensive on their insurance. Of course they never said it, but they started finding anything they could to have a problem with him.

 

[gnipgnop]

The commissioner is spot on. I don’t have a problem with Apple trying to brand Privacy and Security. I do have a problem when within that branding fences are being created to financially siphon and reduce competition when paired with their huge market share.

So why isn't Vestager citing actual examples of reduced competition instead of focusing on Apple's privacy and security features? Answer: the EU doesn't have any significant examples of reduced competition. They tried to make a big deal out of Spotify, but it turned out that most iOS users were paying for their subscription via the internet instead of the App Store.

 

[jeffg819]

A government that can dictate a company’s business strategy is a government without bounds. It’s appetite for control will only increase with time. And using government as a weapon to get the holy grail of side loading on Apple devices will extract a cost far greater than any savings from cheaper apps.

Let Apple be Apple and Android be Android and keep the government out of it.

 

[Mescagnus]

These EU officials know nothing about tech, were raised in an android world and went into politics because they were unable to found a company.

That, or as is typically the case in my country, politicians who are the outcasts in domestic politics get send off to the EU parliament.