EU Competition Chief Tells Apple Not to Use Privacy as a Shield Against Competition

[britboyj]

Once they are not forced to do that, they will begin to stop supporting the App Store, just as many developers do on macOS.

And yet most reputable developers on Android continue to use the Play Store, which has many of the same restrictions on user data and access as iOS (Not all, obviously, but many).

Google has proven the idea that opening Android to side-loading doesn't make the platform itself any less safe, and Apple's failure to identify some flagrant apps that are cheating their own system, as well as so many low-quality apps burns down Apple's "quality" argument from the inside out.

I CAN see the argument that sideloaded apps don't technically have to comply with Apple's other policies, but Apple has another weapon in that arsenal: They can have the OS refuse to load certain binaries, just like in MacOS.

 

[grandM]

It’s very obvious that those who insist the government must not interfere were raised under US ideology.

Lol I am from a neighboring country. You have choice. You can go android.
Truly. VW. Do they allow to choose which cockpit software is installed? Can you walk into a VW dealer and ask for Peugeot tires? No? Guess that's a monopoly then. Why doesn't Berlin or Brussels act?

 

[grandM]

And yet most reputable developers on Android continue to use the Play Store, which has many of the same restrictions on user data and access as iOS (Not all, obviously, but many).

Google has proven the idea that opening Android to side-loading doesn't make the platform itself any less safe, and Apple's failure to identify some flagrant apps that are cheating their own system, as well as so many low-quality apps burns down Apple's "quality" argument from the inside out.

I CAN see the argument that sideloaded apps don't technically have to comply with Apple's other policies, but Apple has another weapon in that arsenal: They can have the OS refuse to load certain binaries, just like in MacOS.

Are you calling the android ecosystem safe?

 

[Naraxus]

Other than this forum? No, I have no source and neither does anyone on the opposite side saying the majority of iOS users want to be able to sideload apps. It’s all conjecture at this point and personal experience or preference. Not a single person I know has the least interest or even knows what “sideloading” is outside of one developer who used to jailbreak his iPhone and did so back when devs wanted to start building their own apps. I no longer speak to him, so I have no idea what his opinion is now. The loud minority on this forum will, however, try to demonstrate that this is some mainstream movement. Nice try with the “Source” bit, though…makes newbs think you’re more credible. Not.

Awww newbs. How cute. I never claimed to be credible. You were the one who made the claim and I simply asked you to back it up by citing a source which you are unable to do.

As for your statement of the "loud minority will somehow try to demonstrate...." line there is a mountain of evidence to support people wanting multiple app stores and the sideloading of apps and has been ever since the iPhone debuted.

It's one of the major reasons people have been jailbreaking their iPhones for years and why the Cydia Store existed

 

[Glideslope]

These people had their own vaccination center guaranteeing themselves vaccines while they negotiated so on price the general population was dying because we had none.

And don't think the common people can get into that fortress.

My issues have always been with the Leadership in Brussels. Not the existence of the EU or any particular country. I agree with your point I believe you are trying to make. IMO, the Leadership in Brussels is far less accessible to the common EU Member than the images in the Press Releases would like to portray. Brussels is quite an elitist group.

Personally, I'm just going to sit back with my popcorn and watch China work it's way into every fiber of the EU.

 

[grandM]

Vestager believes in other stores. Kapersky, antivirus software company, thinks otherwise.

'

Final Takeaway — 10 Tips for keeping your mobile phone safe and secure​

1. Stay on native app stores and stay off third-party app stores. As a rule of thumb, you should stick to the Apple, Google Play, or Microsoft stores. Even in the official stores, you should be reading app reviews and searching trusted sites for more information.'

Android vs. iOS Security Comparison 2023

Which is safer - iOS or Android? The truth: all phones are at risk. Read more here.

www.kaspersky.com

 

[meboy]

This thread is supposed to be proof of crazy koolaid drinking sheeple?

Was there some radio frequency sent out that only they can sense?

 

[grandM]

My issues have always been with the Leadership in Brussels. Not the existence of the EU or any particular country. I agree with your point I believe you are trying to make. IMO, the Leadership in Brussels is far less accessible to the common EU Member than the images in the Press Releases would like to portray. Brussels is quite an elitist group.

Personally, I'm just going to sit back with my popcorn and watch China work it's way into every fiber of the EU.

It is elite. Oh and their internship is full of dazzling stunning babes. On Tinder we saw some pass by. We started to notice a pattern.

Worst of all is they try to get the last drop from the bucket. They drive with foreign number plates to pay less road taxes. They barely pay income tax either. I know some of them.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I meant to ask this earlier in the thread… If he’s the competition chief then shouldn’t he be focused on making the EU technologies competitive?

Ok, but really, when you consider that ANY company with a good idea can have worldwide influence overnight given enough dollars, why aren’t there more huge multinational platforms being created by countries from the EU?

 

[One2Grift]

Lol I am from a neighboring country. You have choice. You can go android.
Truly. VW. Do they allow to choose which cockpit software is installed? Can you walk into a VW dealer and ask for Peugeot tires? No? Guess that's a monopoly then. Why doesn't Berlin or Brussels act?

Winner response from GandM.

Fyi, the anti Apple crowd doesn't care about Apple user choice, or any choice, or anything else regarding consumers being satisfied. Everyone, as you so accurately replied. knows that companies put out products that limit/try to limit software change (gasp! even Google!). Their argument is laughable on its face.

So then what's it about? In Q1 of 2016 Apple Services was about 6 Billion(smallest Apple revenue Sector). In Q1 of 21 Services was 16 Billion (Apple's 2nd largest revenue sector). It grew (quicj=k math) 266% in 5 years. As one came imagine, it's the fastest growing sector (by a lot). IF it's rate of growth continues it will take in nearly 90 Billion in revenue in the forward 12 months. That's nearly 60% of all the revenue of Microsoft, the second largest US company by market cap.
That Services revenue in and of itself would make Apple the 60th biggest company in the world, just! the Services sector (and Services is 1/4 of iPhone revenue). The attack on the App Store is nothing but the competition trying to be extra competitive with all the tools in their arsenal (especially as Apple pissed off a bunch of companies by significantly cutting off the data mining spigot that made so many $$$). Anyone reading this understand that this has nothing to do with choice and everything to do with business being a hard contact sport.

 

[Seoras]

"Excuses" ? The EU are hypocrites who have been legislating heavily on privacy on IT.
Now "privacy" doesn't suit their (real) agenda? She obviously doesn't want to face facts or she's an idiot.
The French and Germans obviously want their very own "Le App Store" and "Das App Store", pissed off that yet again an American company is a success in their market place.

 

[msp3]

How fitting coming from the EU police state that uses "privacy" for protectionism to beat down and harass foreign firms, while advantaging their own dishonest operators...

 

[Marshall73]

Apple should pull devices or features from these markets, publicise WHY they are doing it and let the users vent against the governments. Especially when these parties are trying to tip the playing field for the benefit of Spotify because they are European even though they are in a monopolistic position.

 

[Taipan]

I really don’t understand all the counter arguments.

Nobody will be forced to use alternative app stores so your data will not be compromised if you don’t use this option.

That what this all this is about. Giving users a choice. Just like you can basically buy every product out there in other stores at different priced and sales. Sometimes it seems people over here all have a large quantity of Apple stock. Cause all this is about profit. Nothing else.

Please remove everyone else‘s data from your phone before you exert your freedom of choice.

 

[WiseAJ]

Please remove every else‘s data from your phone before you exert your freedom of choice.

Welcome to America where everyone wants their own personal Freedom, doesn't matter if it costs someone else's.

 

[falkon-engine]

You already have a choice. Go to Android. Please do, please (oh wait you probably already do). That you feel this bizarre sense of entitlement that Apple (that is well known to wall for security) should change to accommodate your sense of choice? Sure, right, stick with that. Americans will stand up like so much of Europe, give us unvetted apps or else (laughable).

Europe is boldly standing up are they? Apple has sold their iPhone and eco this way for how long? And exactly how have they changed iPhone and eco in those many years? You may think headlines in newspapers from these, as you seem to think, pure as driven snow politicians and bureaucrats means standing up, plenty see that for what it is.
Regardless, Ain't nuttin changed yet has it? And this time next year still ain't nuttin have changed. And if it makes you Anti Apple crowd even more angry? That's like a bonus on top of the superior product and eco we already chose.

No choice of alternatives is NOT a choice... with billions of dollars of trade (in the App Store) at stake, it's just a matter of time before the domino drops. I'm so sick of you Apple Apologists stating "if you don't like Apple's locked down nonsense then go to Android." That's not good enough.

 

[Manzanito]

And who creates the API? Apple should get a cut.

Apple gets a big cut of every iPhone sold, I understand.

 

[WiseAJ]

No choice of alternatives is NOT a choice... with billions of dollars of trade (in the App Store) at stake, it's just a matter of time before the domino drops. I'm so sick of you Apple Apologists stating "if you don't like Apple's locked down nonsense then go to Android." That's not good enough.

Android is the appropriate alternative. I'm sick of people wanting to make it so there is no alternative. Only Android or Android like systems. It's not Apple's fault that a ton of people with money like their locked down secure OS.

 

[macfacts]

Sorry it does not work that way. Right now, companies that want to make apps for iOS/iPadOS/tvOS/WatchOS need to go through the App Store and so they do. They therefore support all apples privacy and tracking rules, not because they want to, but because they have not choice. Once they are not forced to do that, they will begin to stop supporting the App Store, just as many developers do on macOS. If an app one needs (including from one’s company or government) is only available outside the App Store one will have no choice.

Right now, Apple protects me from that. In a world where they do not have that control, they will not be able to protect me.

There's bigger problems besides privacy if you need Apple's protection from your boss or government

 

[Zdigital2015]

Awww newbs. How cute. I never claimed to be credible. You were the one who made the claim and I simply asked you to back it up by citing a source which you are unable to do.

As for your statement of the "loud minority will somehow try to demonstrate...." line there is a mountain of evidence to support people wanting multiple app stores and the sideloading of apps and has been ever since the iPhone debuted.

It's one of the major reasons people have been jailbreaking their iPhones for years and why the Cydia Store existed

There are over one billion active iPhones in the world and if there’s more than 2% (20,000,000) users who actually want to jailbreak or care about an alternative App Store, I’d be surprised. And I’m being REALLY, REALLY generous. There is no great movement of users wanting sideloaded apps or multiple app stores, there’s just a lot of self delusion that all or most average users want what a few users here want. They don’t.

Any clue how many people actually have their iPhones jailbroken…100,000? 50,000? Hardly a blip of people in the grand scheme of things. Hopefully, the EU will keep their big nose out of it.

 

[Abazigal]

It’s pretty much in line with how the US and EU treat antitrust. US looks at harm done to consumers, while the EU gauges harm done to small businesses. It doesn’t help that the majority of big tech giants are all US companies, so there is a very real risk of smaller EU businesses being snuffed out in the process.

 

[arvinsim]

ITT: So much ad hominems being thrown around.

 

[One2Grift]

No choice of alternatives is NOT a choice... with billions of dollars of trade (in the App Store) at stake, it's just a matter of time before the domino drops. I'm so sick of you Apple Apologists stating "if you don't like Apple's locked down nonsense then go to Android." That's not good enough.

Well let me first just say "if you don't like Apple's locked down (best selling, highest CS) product and ecosystem then go to Android".

Oh it is Billions alright, I mean BILLIONS. Forward 12 months suggest close to 70 billion in Apple's second leading revenue maker, the Services sector. Biggest part of Services sector?? You guessed it! Theeeeeee App Store. Fyi, Apple's biggest business sector is iPhones. Did you know that Apple makes more revenue from iPhones than all of Microsoft's or Google's Data mining revenue? Just iPhones are bigger than either of them. Impressive. Yet Apple is not only the biggest smartphone maker and seller in the world, it is also the highest rated. And did you know that Apple's newest-ish sector, wearables and hearables, is close to becoming their third biggest revenue sector? It's growing so robustly. Did you know just Services (with the, ahem, App Store) and Wearables/Hearables sectors alone would make Apple in the top 40 biggest companies in the world. Bigger than all of Sony. It certainly indicates, as one big market research company stated, Apple's ecosystem growth is accelerating and user's within the ecosystem tend to spend more, buy more, replace more often and report higher customer satisfaction.
That's all on top of biggest Mac sales ever. That's in part coming from their brand new in house M series chip showing significant wattage reduction while increasing power (with iPad sales seeing good growth TTM). It is believed that they will hit 400 Billion in trailing twelve months revenue very soon. Incredible! success isn't it? Apple charges a premium on their precuts yet their users buy more, more often and report higher satisfaction with the products. But you'll stop them all won't you! The hammer will fall! Oh wow...
So if you do not like that I have a suggestion that may help. You should go immediately to Android.

Where you android anti Apple people (especially you rabid ones) get this utterly fanatically warped sense of entitlement is mystifying and just a bit unnerving. That you don't like Apple and don't like they make a lot of money means nothing to me, countless millions of Apple users and pretty much anyone outside the small but vocal anti Apple group.
Your blinding hatred aside, Apple is going to continue to do it their way. How sny rational person can think that will tangibly change? That you and yours will drop the hammer to stop the App Store revenue? It's laughable and sad all at the same time. (help yourself now by going to the Android platform immediately).

On all seriousness, thank you for the Friday night fun (I suspect it was unintentional on your part but nonetheless it was fun).

 

[ikramerica]

So what happens if (when) Facebook decides they will only offer FB, Instagram, and WhatsApp in their own app store? Do users have actually have a choice at that point? Or will literally tens of millions of iOS users be forced to download the FB app store, likely with no idea what they're doing?

Many iOS users know absolutely nothing about how their phone works. My mother, for example, barely knows how to bring up the multitasking view. Do you think she will actually be able to make an educated choice about her security and privacy? Or will she just download an alt app store because she uses Facebook and the app tells her she has to?

Well, THEY should be forced to offer their apps on other stores. I mean, it’s about choice, right?

 

[grandM]

It’s pretty much in line with how the US and EU treat antitrust. US looks at harm done to consumers, while the EU gauges harm done to small businesses. It doesn’t help that the majority of big tech giants are all US companies, so there is a very real risk of smaller EU businesses being snuffed out in the process.

EU grants projects to huge EU companies. A lot of them take a substantial cut then subcontract it. Those subcontractors would never stand a chance of hauling in the contract which they wind up doing themselves. I don't think the EU is thinking of those small businesses.

Furthermore say there were no App Store small developers might have to pay again for the development suite, distribution, advertising and so on. Do you really think any random developer could put his accounting software at Walmart's shelf for free?

Or was he/she better off being refused to do so as there already were 2 accounting bundles at Walmart? Luckily the dev can then try distributing at BestBuy and then ... Only a company with several employees could manage so. Apple liberated indie devs setting off an innovation whirlpool.