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SIM card? USB-C to HDMI cable? Microsoft Office? Cleaning cloth? Case? 4-way mains strip?
Does the Mac Mini come with everything you need to use it? Keyboard? Mouse? Monitor?

"What you need to use it" is completely personal and arbitrary - and can change with time.

In the past, you needed the charger because it was a unique, proprietary device with a proprietary connector, and using anything else was - at best - a case of "do you feel lucky". Now, any non-fake USB-C charger will charge your MacBook (if only slowly) and there's a wide choice of chargers - even from Apple - that can do the job while offering other features.

Apple already offered a choice of 2 chargers with the MacBook Pro, and all the EU required them to do was to add "no charger" to that list. Which they have done for the new MBP. The only relevant debate is whether Apple have passed on any resulting savings to the customer (rather than use the EU as scapegoat for a stealth price rise), or whether they should have shown a bit more customer respect by offering a free or discounted charger as an option.


Why tires?

OK, you need the stock tires if you want to drive it to your preferred tyre dealer to get better ones - but that's a false equivalence because you don't need to have a laptop charger in order to buy a better laptop charger.

Why not spare wheel, car stereo, heated windscreen, heated seats etc. - which are usually extras - or that anti-corrosion treatment that they always try and push on you? Why not insurance, car tax/license plates (depending on country) - last time I bought a car I actually had to prove I had it taxed and insured before the dealer would hand me the keys.

My PowerBook G4 came with a cleaning cloth, charger, various dongles for video output, etc. It felt like a complete package. I wasn’t having to buy additional accessories to turn on and use device unless I wanted to.

If you prefer to buy every part yourself that is fine - to each their own.

And others prefer to build their own computers from scratch. Again, to each their own.
 
SIM card? USB-C to HDMI cable? Microsoft Office? Cleaning cloth? Case? 4-way mains strip?
Does the Mac Mini come with everything you need to use it? Keyboard? Mouse? Monitor?

"What you need to use it" is completely personal and arbitrary - and can change with time.
Straw man argument.

Having a charger with the laptop is not the same as those things you listed. You likely know that, but couldn't just admit defeat so you went ahead with a bunch of random ideas.
 
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You missed the point where gift cards and giveaways can actually make money as 'loss leaders'.
Outside of the yearly education-only promotion Apple does not do any giveaways to my knowledge. If you want an Apple gift card you'll have to buy one. Certainly at full price if you buy it through Apple.

You also missed the point that retail prices for things like Macs just aren't calculated that way.
We do not know the specifics of how Apple sets their prices. Apple communicates very clearly to its customers that they think their most barebones charger is worth more than 50 bucks and if it's included in your purchase then one way or another you probably paid the full price for that charger. Apple aren't doing starter sets or "kits" or discounts and their business model clearly works very well that way.

its hard to see how you could stop resellers throwing in free chargers if that gives them an edge over the competition
People buy where it's convenient and plug in USB-C cables into a charger where the cable fits with no regards to charge protocols or wattage or brand. Nobody is going to pay extra attention to the retailer who throws in a charger, instead people care how far they have to drive or if they can get a next day delivery and where they might have a customer/rewards card for a lower price. Or they might go to a place where they can try out the device in person first.

Except they haven't increased prices of Macs in the UK. Everything is still the same price as it was, except the £1600 14" MBP no longer includes a £60 (retail) charger.
Following Apple's product launches and the pricing year by year it becomes clear why that is: Apple mostly updates pricing when they update the product. The reason they haven't increased Mac prices in the UK is that all of them are still the older M4 versions. Their prices won't be changed until they are updated with M5.

A side effect of this strategy is that Apple charges MSRP until a successor is announced and that has previously resulted in extremely overpriced old Macs like the very last Intel Mac Pro still being sold through Apple at MSRP despite Macs with the M1 chip already being sold.

Yet all this strange pricing is par for the course that's Apple. You compare to gardening tools and various computer components but Apple doesn't do business this way. They don't need to offer incentives because there's no other laptop like a Macbook. If you want a Mac you have no other choice but to buy an Apple Mac.
 
Having a charger with the laptop is not the same as those things you listed.
How?

Try using a phone without a SIM card (or 'eSIM'). Try using a desktop without a keyboard or display cable. Try doing anything useful without the software you need. Plenty of products in this world come without everything you need to make use of them in the box as standard. What you need depends on what you already have, or what you wish to source elsewhere.

If you want to play name-the-fallacy try "Appeal to tradition" - "we should get a charger in the box with a laptop because we always used to get a charger in the box" while ignoring the fact that they were normally proprietary and tied to the specific product, whereas we now have a universal standard.
 
Outside of the yearly education-only promotion Apple does not do any giveaways to my knowledge.
So, Apple don't do giveaways... apart from when they do giveaways.
Free AppleTV+ subscriptions with virtually everything, when they launched the service, springs to mind.
They did half-price USB-C accessories for some months after launcing the 2016 USB-C-only Macbook (but only after user complaints about the cost of replacing all their cables and adapters).

Anyway, I didn't say that they did, just that they could. Other companies do - apparently without crashing and burning.

We do not know the specifics of how Apple sets their prices.
No, but it's very clearly not "marginal cost + % mark-up" when the price points stay fixed for years. They clearly decide the price and then decide what they want to give you for that price.

Apple aren't doing starter sets or "kits" or discounts and their business model clearly works very well that way.

...but the whole point of this thread is that that's Apple's choice of business model - not the EU's decision. There were other ways they could have complied with the requirement to offer a charger-free option, rather than take the charger away for everybody.
 
Samsung Asus Dell and alike still include chargers or options to buy one (i live in Holland). So it at feels like cheap imitation of trying to make more money
Apple includes the option to buy a charger too. The fact is that the EU is requiring this change by the end of April. Other manufacturers might handle it differently than Apple is, but the situation with laptops and chargers is changing because of EU laws.
 
Apple includes the option to buy a charger too. The fact is that the EU is requiring this change by the end of April. Other manufacturers might handle it differently than Apple is, but the situation with laptops and chargers is changing because of EU laws.
Ironic you're replying in the thread with the article that showed this is false. The misinformation continues to spread even in comment sections of articles that disputed the misinformation.
 
Ironic you're replying in the thread with the article that showed this is false. The misinformation continues to spread even in comment sections of articles that disputed the misinformation.
I don't see it as misinformation.

It is true that upcoming EU legislation does not prohibit Apple from finding some way to still include a charger with their laptops while also removing it for customers who express that they don't need one. It is also likely true that trying to manage this at scale for Apple would have proven to be inconvenient (you have to maintain 2 separate product lines), and it was simply easier for them to just remove all chargers from laptops sold in the region altogether.

It is also true that Apple appears to be managing this in a manner which is financially advantageous to themselves, yet at the same time, they continue to include a charger in other countries like Singapore.

What this tells me is that EU legislation appears fond of prescribing overly broad guidelines (even if they have a specific mode of implementation in mind) to tech companies to nudge them towards certain "idealised" behaviour which is often not to their financial benefit, then everyone acts all shocked when said companies opt to adhere to those rules in the most literal manner possible in a bid to minimise the costs of compliance.

It seems to be a recurring theme around here that because Apple makes so much money with their hardware, they are expected to simply subsidise the cost of everything else (from running the App Store for free, to giving free iCloud storage, to fragmenting their product lineup just to comply with a questionable rule).

I think many of us saw this move coming a mile away. I guess I am more surprised at the people "pretending" to be surprised, than I am surprised at the way Apple has chosen to respond here. :)
 
Haha, when I saw this I thought it was hilarious. Apple sure do have beef with EU. But it says that customers should have a choice to buy with or without charger. So it makes sense to make only one product without charger. I would do the same. Of course Apple could give you one for free is you asked, and maybe some sales person will, but yeah this is a bit greedy. Or they want to upset EU customers, make them angry with EU regulation. I remember when I was buying an iMac, they gave me trackpad for 1 euro. Just because they couldn't give it for free. But Basically it was..

Anyway, don't care really. I buy my Apple products form USA. 1. Weak dollar, 2. no EU taxes, 3. no Apple EU tax.
 
As it should be - and the common charger directive should increase choice and competition. Apple are already offering Anker and Belkin chargers in their online store, and sensible people who need a charger with their Mac aren't going to spend £60 on an Apple charger if they can get a reputable 3rd party one for £40 - which is good news if you need an extra/replacement one.


...but only one is relevant to the customer, and that's how competitive markets are supposed to work. It's up to the customer to say, "hey, no, if you're not giving me the charger for free I'm not paying £60 for an Apple trickle-charger when I can get a (reputable party) fast charger for £40"

Apple sell high-value goods with substantial profit margins, and Macs are almost certainly priced based on arbitrary "what the market will bear" price points which bear little relationship to the marginal cost... Hence the dollar price of a base iMac not having changed from $1299 since 1998. Offering a free or heavily discounted charger with a £1600 MBP is well within their zone of negotiation.


Apple love to talk the talk on the environment - if they wanted to walk the walk they'd offer an incentive to leave the charger rather than use it as an opportunity for a stealth price rise (as in the UK).

"Free basic charger or a £x Apple Store credit" would seem like a good deal, where x is calculated to make a net profit by encouraging people to spend additional money in the Apple Store. I'd take the credit and use it against a high-end multiport charger, they'd still take a profit.

Apple are allowed to maximise their profits by pinching pennies, but customers don't have to take that lying down.
I agree a lot of this is true or likely true or somewhat true, except I still think nearly everyone would take a free optional charger whether or not they need it, and that would defeat the environmental purpose of excluding the charger, so I hope a free optional charger doesn't happen. If there is to be any change in the situation, in my point of view the best and most realistic option is a store credit, but I don't know what a fair amount would be.
But you're right that what's fair isn't even really the question, it's just about what the customer perceives because ultimately they have the power, and they should exercise it.
 
companies opt to adhere to those rules in the most literal manner possible in a bid to minimise the costs of compliance.
Apple actually follows the spirit of the law to reduce unnecessary e-waste. What other businesses like Valve do where they merely offer the device without the charger at the same price is the bare minimum. There's no incentive for customers to want less for the same money. What Apple did was as you said a simple solution and it's going to be effective.

This thread title is "EU didn't stop Apple from including..." and even though that's technically true there really shouldn't be any surprise that Apple is going for the simple solution that indeed will help reduce e-waste. People like me who simply don't need yet another charger are not going to pay extra for one.

...but the whole point of this thread is that that's Apple's choice of business model - not the EU's decision. There were other ways they could have complied with the requirement to offer a charger-free option, rather than take the charger away for everybody.
Apple chose the simple one that will effectively reduce e-waste instead of doing some convoluted workaround where they hand out Apple gift cards with Macbook purchases or offer the charger for free. Expecting customers to choose to get less for the same money is unrealistic. Expecting Apple to give hardware away they don't need to give away and comparing that to free trial periods for streaming services is also unrealistic.
 
Apple chose the simple one that will effectively reduce e-waste instead of doing some convoluted workaround where they hand out Apple gift cards with Macbook purchases or offer the charger for free.
...but, for the last time, that was Apple's commercial decision - not the EU's. They had other genuine choices. I've already given a bunch of examples of other companies offering optional "complete kits" at a discount over the individual parts, you've even added your own example with Valve.

Expecting Apple to give hardware away they don't need to give away and comparing that to free trial periods for streaming services is also unrealistic.
Why? They're still giving away a product/service that they could have charged money for (...and, at one point, they were giving away 6-12 months subscriptions to ATV+, not the usual 30 day freebie you'll get any streaming service).

Apple chose the simple one that will effectively reduce e-waste instead of doing some convoluted workaround where they hand out Apple gift cards with Macbook purchases or offer the charger for free.
What's convoluted about it? Many other businesses hand out vouchers/cashbacks/freebies with far cheaper/lower-margin products - it's not rocket surgery. It makes the products sound more attractive, and a carefully-pitched voucher to spend in the company store can be a loss-leader that actually makes more money.

This thread title is "EU didn't stop Apple from including..."
...and that is the whole point of this thread. Apple had other perfectly viable choices - the "Valve" solution would have satisfied the EU. A reward scheme for forgoing the charger would have potentially saved more waste. Discounts would have encouraged people to buy universal chargers that could charge all of their current and future devices. We can debate which of those would be more successful, or more "Apple like" but that's not what the EU is demanding.
(you have to maintain 2 separate product lines)
Only if the MBP packaging is so badly designed that they can't just drop the appropriate charger - or not - into the shipping carton at point-of-order (or hand it to you at the Apple Store). The chargers are already boxed-up as separate product lines. All the talk of "in the box" here is purely figurative - whether the charger goes in the glossy Mac packaging, the outer shipping box is irrelevant, the issue is how much extra you have to pay for an adaptor that was previously included in the price.

This is my main beef with Apple - they're selling premium-priced, if not luxury, high-value, high-margin products while ruthlessly stripping their logistics to the bone as if they were running Poundland and had to squeeze a living out of wafer-thin margins. If Raspberry Pi can offer a choice between bare-bones board-in-a-box and an all-you-need kit - or Ryobi can offer a choice between a bare drill and a kit with batteries, chargers and case - on products costing <£100 why do people think that it's some sort of commercial impossibility for Apple to offer two versions of a £1600 SKU?

except I still think nearly everyone would take a free optional charger whether or not they need it, and that would defeat the environmental purpose of excluding the charger
Thing is, though, the EU directive doesn't prevent that and I don't see how they could sellers from offering free or discounted chargers without resorting to the worst sort of regulatory micro-management. At some stage, you have to leave a role for the consumer to make a choice. Personally, I'd leave a free charger behind if I really didn't need it - at the moment I could probably use one more but that would be it - and I'd rather have a high-power multi-port one than what you used to get bundled with a base MBP.

I suspect that lots of people ordering Macs are just going to add a charger anyway (if £60 was a big deal you wouldn't be buying Mac) out of convenience rather than think "do I need one?". A year or two down the line people will have forgotten that the old Mac price had the charger somehow 'costed in' (which is pretty unknowable anyway). I suspect that a positive enticement saying "Drop the charger - get a £x Voucher" would be more effective at making people stop and think.

I'm skeptical about the whole "save the planet" thing anyway - these things contain lots of copper and should be profitably recyclable - but since the side-effect is to establish a common standard and reduce the old habit of price-gouging on proprietary replacement/extra/spare chargers I don't see a downside to "unbundling" beyond the likes of Apple using it as a cover for stealth price rises.
 
Why? They're still giving away a product/service that they could have charged money for (...and, at one point, they were giving away 6-12 months subscriptions to ATV+, not the usual 30 day freebie you'll get any streaming service).
Apple doesn't give you a few months of free ATV because they like doing nice things for their customers. They have run the numbers and expect to earn more money with people converting to paid subscriptions at the end of the trial period. Earn more money than they lose with gifting the free months. It's a marketing campaign.
 
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I don't see it as misinformation.

It is true that upcoming EU legislation does not prohibit Apple from finding some way to still include a charger with their laptops while also removing it for customers who express that they don't need one. It is also likely true that trying to manage this at scale for Apple would have proven to be inconvenient (you have to maintain 2 separate product lines), and it was simply easier for them to just remove all chargers from laptops sold in the region altogether.

It is also true that Apple appears to be managing this in a manner which is financially advantageous to themselves, yet at the same time, they continue to include a charger in other countries like Singapore.

What this tells me is that EU legislation appears fond of prescribing overly broad guidelines (even if they have a specific mode of implementation in mind) to tech companies to nudge them towards certain "idealised" behaviour which is often not to their financial benefit, then everyone acts all shocked when said companies opt to adhere to those rules in the most literal manner possible in a bid to minimise the costs of compliance.

It seems to be a recurring theme around here that because Apple makes so much money with their hardware, they are expected to simply subsidise the cost of everything else (from running the App Store for free, to giving free iCloud storage, to fragmenting their product lineup just to comply with a questionable rule).

I think many of us saw this move coming a mile away. I guess I am more surprised at the people "pretending" to be surprised, than I am surprised at the way Apple has chosen to respond here. :)
Well in this instance Apple did largely move towards the ideal option. It would largely be trivial for Apple to include a charger or not.
but the option they went with is much more environmentally friendly and profitable. Every pallet can contain 2-3x the number of devices while a single pallet now can contain 5x the number of chargers.

So now instead of Apple shipping let’s say 3 containers they might just need 1 container for the same amount of goods. And the vast majority probably won’t bother to get a charger anyway.

Plus depending on how the market and users react it can become mandatory to exclude the charger in 1-2 years
 
Actually, what Apple should do is create a certification program so certain third-party chargers from Anker, Baseus, Belkin and Ugreen are certified to charge certain MacBook models up to 67 watts and the higher-end MacBook Pro models up to 100 watts. And at the Apple Store, offer them to the customer at up to 45% off list price.
 
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Actually, what Apple should do is create a certification program so certain third-party chargers from Anker, Baseus, Belkin and Ugreen are certified to charge certain MacBook models up to 67 watts and the higher-end MacBook Pro models up to 100 watts. And at the Apple Store, offer them to the customer at up to 45% off list price.
The certificate already exists. It’s called USB-PD
 
Smart move by Apple. Only one box type to ship per model instead of double.
I think it's a missed opportunity by Apple.

They should have come up with an exclusive contest in the EU: "Buy the new M5 MacBook Pro and find out if the magic charger is included in the box! Odds 1 in a 100.000"
 
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You're doing the math wrong: US prices exclude state tax. European taxes, including countries that don't belong to the EU, like the UK, Switzerland et cetera, do include VAT. The rate varies (max is Hungary with 27%) just like in the US.

The Mac is € 100 (including tax) cheaper without the charger, and in many countries remain ≈ € 40 cheaper if people get the previously included charger from Apple.

Besides, have you seen this?
Microsoft also doesn't include a charger, since March, 2025:


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My math is correct, this taken into account. The Mac is more expensive than last year.
If you need I can make you a detailed explanation.
 
I would recommend then not trying to buy one in USD, but instead use local currency to save 100€
It doesn’t change anything but anyway that is what people do.
I can see that this very simple principle is not well understood on the forums here.
 
I remember the good old days where you not only got your charging brick, but you also got an extender for your brick as well.
 
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