EU Didn't Stop Apple From Including Charger With M5 MacBook Pro

[theluggage]

While the EU might not prohibit including a charger in the box, not including a charger is the logical consequence of the EU legislation. It is a distinction without a difference.

The "in the box"/"not in the box" thing is a distraction.

The EU simply requires that you have the option of buying the device. The logistics of doing that (put it in on request, take it out on request, put it in a separate box, offer a reduced-price charger as an option) is up to the seller. Thing is, now that you can legitimately use a whole range of Apple and third-party USB-C chargers with your MacBook, offering a range of different bells and whistles, not bundling a very basic charger Just Makes Sense.

The question is whether you think Apple are now gouging you by not reducing the price of the Mac to reflect cost of the charger - which looks to be the case in the UK and may be the case in the Eurozone once you factor in exchange rate changes.

Apple pulled the same trick with the iPhone a few years back - long before the EU directive - and there are a bunch of other goodies (extension cables, cleaning cloths, stickers) that have softly and silently vanished away with no inducement from the EU. It looks awfully like Apple are guinea-pigging this idea outside the US so people can blame the nasty EU if it goes wrong.

Apple already offer two charger options (70W or 96W) with the 14" MBPs in the US, so I don't know why some people think adding "no charger" to that list would triggger some sort of logistical apocalypse.

 

[theluggage]

The article says EU law requires a version without the charger. That means either only selling the charger separately or selling two versions--one with the charger and one without.

...but the EU say nothing about what the price difference between the product with or without a charger should be.

In the UK, Apple are charging £60 extra for the charger and haven't reduced the price of the MBP accordingly. That is a "stealth" price rise that is 100% on Apple.

In other EU countries, the price of the MBP has gone down by €100 so - on the surface - the charger is paid for, and if you don't need one you're quids (or euros) in, so on the surface its a mystery what anybody is complaining about (...unless they've looked deeper at the exchange rates and realised that the dollar-equivalent price hasn't gone down that much).

 

[bLackjackj]

The move to charge separately for adapters is therefore a business choice by Apple, not a legal necessity.

Did the penny just drop at Macrumors? …we’ve all said this when the article first appeared 💁‍♂️

 

[SpotOnT]

Apple already offer two charger options (70W or 96W) with the 14" MBPs in the US, so I don't know why some people think adding "no charger" to that list would triggger some sort of logistical apocalypse

One of those is considered a custom order though - meaning Apple does not stock laptops with two separate chargers in stores. You have to order it and wait for it to ship out from China.

I absolutely agree though, that Apple could probably also fulfill the EU law by making a charger-less option available as a custom order option. That said, I can also just see the logic of them reducing the price by 100 eros (which they did in the EU) and not including a charger. Done and done.

If this is indeed a test case for not including chargers worldwide, that would be pretty lame. Although it seems that most other manufacturers are also ditching the charger in the EU, many - such as Microsoft - even before Apple. So I am still hopeful this might just be another EU headache that companies have to deal with, rather than a test case for a global initiative.

 

[Abazigal]

Not surprising but still kind of amazing that only Apple fans view this as a positive change.

It's one of the things I made a conscious decision to embrace when I first decided to go all-in with Apple on more than a decade ago. That I would work at maximising the strengths of my Apple devices, while also minimising their drawbacks, and creating the right "battleground" for them to thrive in.

For example, I purchased my first iPad in 2012, and have worked hard to incorporate it into my workflow ever since. I have spent a small fortune experimenting with paid apps to find the right combination that works best for me. I paid for cloud storage (first dropbox, now onedrive) to get around the lack of support for external storage (while the iPads now support flash drives, old habits die hard). I experimented with Shortcuts to get around certain inefficiencies. I also bought adaptors (first 30-pin, then lightning to VGA and HDMI), plus extra Apple TVs so I could project them in the classroom.

Same with my MBA. Back when it had just one mini-display port, I invested the unholy trinity of adaptors (one for VGA, HDMI and DVI, even though I probably didn't need the last one), just so I wouldn't be caught dead without the right cable.

The shift towards usb-c for iPads, MacBooks and even the iMac also kickstarted my own "port" migration as well, and frankly, I am surprised that more people here don't seem on board with this paradigm shift. Investing in usb-c adaptors, purchasing Samsung T7 drives and flash drives with usb-c connectors, snapping up usb-c chargers with cables, it's been another fun exercise overall. I now have this usb-c dock / stand at my work station where I only need to connect 1 cable to my work laptop and it connects to my 4k monitor, keyboard, mouse and power.

Heck, even my Nintendo Switch 2 at home is being charged with an Anker charger (ie: not its default charger).

I also maintain a tech accessories pouch with chargers and dongles so I will never be caught dead in a situation where I can't charge or project my Apple devices. The corollary of this is that I am also the go-to person in my school that people approach when they need to borrow a certain accessory, or have a tech issue they want to troubleshoot. And I don't even consider myself tech-savvy by any means. I only know what I know, and what I know is the result of over a decade of preparing for an environment that has been fairly hostile to Apple product users. And instead of whining, I adapted (the only way I knew how), and I thrived.

And I finally have the time to sit down and unbox this little gem. Was on sale the other day and I just couldn't resist.

I would say that right now at my current state of tech adoption, I am way "over-prepared" for a future where tech purchases stop including the default chargers with them. So if Apple decides to do away with including them for all future MacBooks and iPads as well, I say - bring it on.

I do also believe that this can result in a noticeable reduction of e-waste (given the scale that Apple operates at). Or is this all just lip-service that goes out the window the moment people are expected to pay for their own charging bricks now?

 

[falainber]

Apple knows their fans who will accept any abuse.

 

[subjonas]

...but the EU say nothing about what the price difference between the product with or without a charger should be.

In the UK, Apple are charging £60 extra for the charger and haven't reduced the price of the MBP accordingly. That is a "stealth" price rise that is 100% on Apple.

In other EU countries, the price of the MBP has gone down by €100 so - on the surface - the charger is paid for, and if you don't need one you're quids (or euros) in, so on the surface its a mystery what anybody is complaining about (...unless they've looked deeper at the exchange rates and realised that the dollar-equivalent price hasn't gone down that much).

I was responding to the people saying that a laptop should never be sold without the charger, so I was just telling them that Apple is forced to in the EU.

Pricing is a little different topic, but of course related. You're right that the EU doesn't say anything about pricing (I believe)--and it's because they can't. As far as I'm aware, governments can't dictate how companies price these kinds of consumer products.

The customer knee jerk reaction is to say, it's only fair that Apple should discount the MacBook by the price of the standalone charger if it doesn't include one. But there are problems with that.
First, there is what the charger is worth to the customer, and then there is what the charger is worth to Apple--two very different numbers. Also remember standalone products always cost more than packaged products (standalone has its own overhead, packaging, specific profit, etc). So which amount discount is going to be fair? If it's the customer's cost, then Apple loses money. If it's Apple's cost, then customers still lose some money, plus it will expose specifics of Apple's pricing strategy, which is to a company's disadvantage to disclose.

But either way, I think that looks at pricing with a too simplistic view. Pricing is a complex calculation, not just a simple adding up of costs + a specific profit percentage. With a complex business, there's a lot of projection, abstraction, and strategy--different profit percentages for different products. And due to fluctuating economies and costs of doing business, costs and profits vary over time as well. You know it's not a straight sum because if it was, the price would be some weird number like $1844.72, and that price would constantly be changing like gas prices. Apple, like many similar companies, price their products at very whole round numbers, usually increments of $50 or $100 (but minus $1 for psychology) and they stay that way for a relatively long time. So if Apple charges $999 for a MacBook with the charger, and they save $18.39 by not including the charger, they won't suddenly change their pricing strategy by offering the MacBook at $987.61. If it was a very large savings to them then maybe, but small changes probably not. That's how they maintain steady prices. Because likewise, if it suddenly costs them a few dollars more to make a product or get it to shelves, they don't automatically raise the price. There's a lot of bigger picture factors that go into pricing, so I wouldn't expect the relatively tiny price of a charger to necessarily affect it.

A voucher for a free charger is an alternative to a discount and potentially the fairest option. Unfortunately, the problem with that is I think 99.9% of people will redeem the free charger just to not lose out on the value, which will defeat the EU's purpose for the law--so in my opinion that will probably be a no go. There is also a gift card, but that's basically a discount so you still run into most of the same issues. Again I think it's relatively just too small of a number to make a visible dent right now.

 

[dmw7]

It’s just penny pinching from Apple. That’s the real answer. Personally I think it’s wild that devices don’t come with the equipment needed to charge them. And for all you people who always say “I have loads of chargers lying around” how come you didn’t give them away with your previous devices? Or are they all just lying around in a big pile too? Personally when it’s time to pass my previous device on, the cables and chargers go with them.

Except for when a device gets lost, stolen, or broken. In which case the cables and charger do become redundant. Scale that up for a country and the volume of ewaste is going to be huge. I say that every device should be sold alone, and those who need the accessories can buy them.

 

[Krizoitz]

The price of the M5 plus a charger is *less* than the M4 model that came with the charger.

Stop using facts against their irrational hatred of all things Apple, it doesn’t work.

 

[Krizoitz]

So you say

“EU Didn't Stop Apple From Including Charger With M5 MacBook Pro”

And then admit

“It also stipulates that consumers must be offered the option to buy a device without a charger to limit unnecessary e-waste.”

So in fact the law did say that.

Yes Apple could double its packaging to have some that include the charger and some don’t, a less efficient solution that would create more, not less waste as the law intends. OR Apple could simply do what it’s doing now, lower the overall price of the device and let people who need a new charger buy one optionally.

This was the perfect choice to comply with an unnecessary EU law.

 

[dwaite]

Just a quick reminder that Macrumors always reports pro-Apple on EU issues, twisting the truth beyond recognition.

Counterexample: the article you are posting a comment against.

 

[dwaite]

This seems to be what Apple has done in the EU and I can’t see any reason to object, other than the fact that you appear to only be able to easily add a charger to a non standard build. I assume you can just add one as a separate item in your basket. I would have thought that this was an easy fix.

Yes, you seem to have two options:

1. Include a charger in the box for a BTO machine
2. Include a charger on the order for a stock machine

Both are the same cost

 

[svish]

Apple will always mention that lack of charger is due to it's environmental efforts. But actual reasons include profit margins. Slowly globally the charger will be removed from in box contents of all the devices. Don't think there will be a price reduction globally due to this.

 

[dwaite]

I thought the confirmation bias is pretty strong over here. Apple solution is clean to follow the spirit of the law. The alternative is to include a $0 charger option, which defeats the purpose of the law isn’t it.

My interpretation as well is that this is the spirit of the law. Chargers should be unbundled from products, as part of efforts to reduce ewaste from redundancy.

Having a same-price SKU with the charger would then be against the spirit of the law, as would a reduced price to bundle at checkout. Both of these would encourage people to acquire a charger they don't need, and thus build up e-waste.

The EU will be reevaluating whether to make Apple's approach here mandatory for all sub 100W laptops at the end of next year - manufacturers being forbidden from bundling USB-C chargers as an option.

 

[dwaite]

Look at the YoY change in USD to EUR exchange rate and do the math. The price slightly increased in USD converted and there is one less charger.

I would recommend then not trying to buy one in USD, but instead use local currency to save 100€

 

[Kottu]

If I buy a new Mac, I don’t necessarily need a charger to be included — but there should at least be an option to opt out. What about people buying a Mac for the first time? Apple’s decision clearly seems driven by profit rather than environmental concern. This so-called “eco-friendly” move feels more like a cover story.

Apple stands to gain a lot from this. I’m certain the packaging will differ between the EU and the US so Apple can cut costs on materials and shipping, while still selling chargers separately at full price. It would’ve been far more reasonable if Apple had given customers a choice — either buy the Mac with a charger included, or opt out and pay less. In Sweden, for example, a 70 W charger costs around $90 with taxes included.

 

[Innovati0n]

This was devastating news to the people spreading misinformation continuously about this the past few days.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple will always mention that lack of charger is due to it's environmental efforts. But actual reasons include profit margins. Slowly globally the charger will be removed from in box contents of all the devices. Don't think there will be a price reduction globally due to this.

The two can be true at the same time. Apple saves money from not having to include a charger, and there is one less charger out there in the wild if the customer elects to use an existing charger (or plans to use a different charger altogether). Perhaps Apple could have lowered the price of their MacBooks a little, but they didn't for the iPhone either, and the practice seems to have been more or less normalised now.

 

[okkibs]

What use is a Mac without power? Do BMW sell cars … Wheels not included??

You mean a tank full of gas. And no they don't include the gas. Or the electric charge for the battery if it's an electric car. When you buy an electric car they ask you if you want a charger installed in your garage. It's optional. You went out of your way to turn a perfect car comparison into one that doesn't make any sense. The wheels of a car are more like the laptop display. The direct comparison for charging a Macbook is filling a car tank or charging the electric battery on an electric car.

The stores already have charges you could include. It’s more likely they baseline laptops in store will be without the charger and ask if you want to include one.

That is just what I am saying. It's easier to package Macbooks and chargers separately and let the customer decide what they want. It's the logical application of these regulatory requirements where Apple can stock various Macbook configs at their stores that can be handed out to all customers.

One of those is considered a custom order though - meaning Apple does not stock laptops with two separate chargers in stores. You have to order it and wait for it to ship out from China.

...and now these customers will no longer have to wait for it to ship from overseas just because of their charger choice. All common Macbook configs that are already in stock can be paired with any charger you like. You could even decide not to buy the charger in the Apple store and instead go to target or microcenter or buy something like an Anker Nano on sale from Amazon. If you do want the Apple charger you might find it's slightly cheaper at various retailers.

Apple not forcing customers to buy their own oversized overpriced single port chargers is a good thing in my books. The only reason I even have a single Apple charger is that it came with an Apple device and I wasn't given a choice. I would never pay extra for an Apple charger if I had the choice to buy the device without it. Unfortunately in the States we are still forced to buy a charger with every iPad and Macbook. And somehow people in this thread are claiming that's a good thing?

If this is indeed a test case for not including chargers worldwide, that would be pretty lame.

Why? I am hoping this change comes worldwide so I am no longer forced to pay for an Apple charger that I don't want. (Of course we all pay for the included charger, even if "included" with the Mac. Apple prices that in. They aren't in the business of handing out anything for free.)

If I buy a new Mac, I don’t necessarily need a charger to be included — but there should at least be an option to opt out. What about people buying a Mac for the first time?

But that option exists. When you add the device to the basket Apple asks you if you want a charger and gives you the usual 2 choices for the 65W baseline adapter and the bigger fast charging adapter. It's the same screen where they previously asked if you want Applecare and now they ask you about the charger as well. They make it clear there won't be a charger included unless you add one. So you can easily "opt out" by adding a charger when prompted.

Some people buying a Mac for the first time might decide not to buy a charger at the Apple Store at all and might instead want to go to the retailer of their choice where they might have a membership or find an adapter that fits their needs better like a compact one or a charger with multiple ports.

Having a same-price SKU with the charger would then be against the spirit of the law

Yet that is indeed what other manufacturers have been doing. And of course very few people are opting to leave out the charger if they still have to pay the full price. And customers even complain that there should be a discount if they don't want the charger. Apple is actually doing it correctly yet people in this thread claim it's bad or crazy or absurd. They conveniently don't reply when asked what is so bad about that.

account for the rising Euro.

I have asked in this thread at least 3 times now why we should account for that but not take inflation into consideration. There hasn't been a single reply so far. Presumably that's because you only take into account what fits your narrative.

 

[theluggage]

One of those is considered a custom order though - meaning Apple does not stock laptops with two separate chargers in stores. You have to order it and wait for it to ship out from China.

If so, that's just lazy logistics/bad packaging design on Apple's part - plus it's already the case (nothing to do with EU) if you want a discounted 96W charger rather than the minimum 70W charger with your MBP.

It's not like they have to build the Mac specially (if you order a MacBook with 16GB RAM and 8TB SSD then perhaps), just pop a box containing Charger A or Charger B in the top of the packing box. I can go to Amazon, order a box of tea bags, a USB-C dongle and a dog toy for a total of less than £10 & they can contrive to put them all together in a box and send it next day, in return for a very slim profit margin. Apple are selling premium, high-value items with a huge profit margin, yet (esp. under Cook) they pare every possible penny off their logistics costs, at detriment to the customer. That's on Apple, not the EU.

That said, I can also just see the logic of them reducing the price by 100 eros (which they did in the EU) and not including a charger. Done and done.

Except, in the UK, they didn't reduce the price, and still removed the charger... and Apple's "generosity" in the EU price could just be because the euro has risen against the dollar - i.e. the "price cut" was probably coming anyway.

Although it seems that most other manufacturers are also ditching the charger in the EU, many - such as Microsoft - even before Apple.

Apple dropped the bundled charger from the iPhone long before the EU required it.

Thing is, though, EU regardless, now there is a genuine choice of chargers for MacBooks (basic, fast-charge, multi-port, TB dock & reliable 3rd party options) unbundling the basic charger makes perfect sense - and that's been coming since Apple started switching to USB-C charging on Macs years ago.

Pricing is a little different topic, but of course related. You're right that the EU doesn't say anything about pricing (I believe)--and it's because they can't. As far as I'm aware, governments can't dictate how companies price these kinds of consumer products.

As it should be - and the common charger directive should increase choice and competition. Apple are already offering Anker and Belkin chargers in their online store, and sensible people who need a charger with their Mac aren't going to spend £60 on an Apple charger if they can get a reputable 3rd party one for £40 - which is good news if you need an extra/replacement one.

First, there is what the charger is worth to the customer, and then there is what the charger is worth to Apple--two very different numbers.

...but only one is relevant to the customer, and that's how competitive markets are supposed to work. It's up to the customer to say, "hey, no, if you're not giving me the charger for free I'm not paying £60 for an Apple trickle-charger when I can get a (reputable party) fast charger for £40"

Apple sell high-value goods with substantial profit margins, and Macs are almost certainly priced based on arbitrary "what the market will bear" price points which bear little relationship to the marginal cost... Hence the dollar price of a base iMac not having changed from $1299 since 1998. Offering a free or heavily discounted charger with a £1600 MBP is well within their zone of negotiation.

A voucher for a free charger is an alternative to a discount and potentially the fairest option. Unfortunately, the problem with that is I think 99.9% of people will redeem the free charger just to not lose out on the value, which will defeat the EU's purpose for the law--so in my opinion that will probably be a no go.

Apple love to talk the talk on the environment - if they wanted to walk the walk they'd offer an incentive to leave the charger rather than use it as an opportunity for a stealth price rise (as in the UK).

"Free basic charger or a £x Apple Store credit" would seem like a good deal, where x is calculated to make a net profit by encouraging people to spend additional money in the Apple Store. I'd take the credit and use it against a high-end multiport charger, they'd still take a profit.

Apple are allowed to maximise their profits by pinching pennies, but customers don't have to take that lying down.

 

[sledgehammer89]

Selling a computer without a charger is ridiculous. Apple’s greed knows no limits

In this case absolutely wrong! It cost here in Germany about $100 less and a 70 watt charger isn't $100, even from Apple. MBP14 is cheaper.

 

[sledgehammer89]

Less charger in box = more revenue more money for investors, more stocks.

MPB14 cost here about $100 less and a 70 watt charger isn't $100, even from Apple.

 

[okkibs]

"Free basic charger or a £x Apple Store credit" would seem like a good deal, where x is calculated to make a net profit by encouraging people to spend additional money in the Apple Store. I'd take the credit and use it against a high-end multiport charger, they'd still take a profit.

How is it consumer friendly to hand out Apple store credit that is only valid for purchases made through Apple? Not to mention that the charger currently bundled with Macbooks isn't actually free at all. It's obviously factored into the price of the Macbook. If they included store credit that would be priced in as well. I'd rather not pay for the "free basic charger" nor the store credit.

Instead of buying a multi-port charger through Apple where prices are relatively high I'd much rather go to my local microcenter and pay less for the same product there. Even Apple's own chargers are slightly discounted at various retailers compared to the full MSRP you pay at the Apple store.

It's not consumer friendly to make me spend more money with Apple. Unbundle the charger and if I do need one then I want to choose where to buy from. I don't want a gift card for Apple's overblown accessories pricing.

 

[Fara82Light]

It is nonsense to suggest that the exclusion of the adapter from the product in the UK and the EU is not due to the EU Regulations. This is a direct consequence of the regulation and the right approach from the perspective of the manufacturer and most retailers.

 

[Innovati0n]

It is nonsense to suggest that the exclusion of the adapter from the product in the UK and the EU is not due to the EU Regulations. This is a direct consequence of the regulation and the right approach from the perspective of the manufacturer and most retailers.

Ignore facts and continue to believe it is what you want it to be, winning strategy.

Apple can do slimy things sometimes, removing the charger is one of those times. Yes, they chose to remove it to increase profits. No, they weren't forced. Accept reality.