EU: Facebook and Instagram's Infinite Scroll May Break Digital Rules

[GrumpyOldGuy52]

While I know addictive design is a thing, you can't expect every app maker out there to do some kind of risk assessment, it's just ridiculous to even think about it. The onus is on the end user to regulate themselves with whatever hobby they have.

That's the point—it's addictive. It is literally designed to be so. A good feeling from finding something in the scrolling releases endorphins into our brains, and we crave it more and more. "Self control" is difficult for addicts—when was the last time anyone heard that an alcoholic or a drug addict just needed to "exercise self-control"?

These companies are using us for our attention spans for them to rake in more ad revenue. This type of regulation is precisely what governments are supposed to be doing.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy52]

We're talking about scrolling through social media, not a 12-step program for drinking or something. Maybe I just don't understand.

It's the same thing. Doomscrolling and drinking affect the same pleasure centers in the brain.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy52]

How dare Häagen-Dazs make their ice cream so delicious! I CAN'T CONTROL MYSELFZ!

REGULATE! REGULATE! REGULATE! SUE! SUE! SUE!

Not the same thing, but not as far off as you may think.

Sugar addiction is a thing, and I'd be willing to bet a company like Häagen-Dazs knows it. So, yes, for some people, they need assistance breaking away from the ice cream. We regulate tobacco, we regulate alcohol, and some states regulate pot… you can fill in the rest.

 

[Happy_John]

This is such nanny bs it's insane. Like, I get responsibilities to not show gore, nsfw, etc.... But ANYTHING can be addictive. Anything can cause issues with people if its a good product.

I dont like Meta but its so insane to me they can just sit there and say "parents are too dumb to use the tools of the platform". That's a serious indictment on society as a whole more than Meta.

Saying "anything can be addictive" is a false equivalence.

Heroin is not the same as biting your nails. Compulsive overeating leading to eating disorders is not the same thing as needing a morning coffee. Some aspects may be the same, but the consequences are not on the same level.

Some addictions produce far more severe consequence than others.

The negative consequences of compulsive social media overuse have been pretty clearly and objectively established, just as the negative consequences of smoking have been.

Everything is not equal.

 

[Happy_John]

Not the same thing, but not as far off as you may think.

Sugar addiction is a thing, and I'd be willing to bet a company like Häagen-Dazs knows it. So, yes, for some people, they need assistance breaking away from the ice cream. We regulate tobacco, we regulate alcohol, and some states regulate pot… you can fill in the rest.

Many countries have a "sugar tax" on junk food and soft drinks. And food products are far, far more regulated than tech.

 

[tonmischa]

Why do you think MacRumors is healthier to doomscroll than Instagram?

Meta:
- The feed is never-ending. No page breaks.
- The feed is created personally for you in real-time. A new feed every time you visit.
- The feed is created by AI based on your previous interactions.
- Their AI prediction models are trained to maximise "engagement". Their only job is to create a feed that will keep you engaged as long as possible.

MacRumors:
- None of the above.

 

[sw1tcher]

I'm going to get hate for this but this just shows how out of touch the EU is:

"did not adequately assess the risks of their addictive design on the physical and mental wellbeing of users, including minors and vulnerable adults."

While I know addictive design is a thing, you can't expect every app maker out there to do some kind of risk assessment, it's just ridiculous to even think about it. The onus is on the end user to regulate themselves with whatever hobby they have.

Maybe we need the equivalent of the Consumer Product Safety Commission for apps then.

If an app is found to have a design/safety defect (e.g. being too addictive), then the Commission should be able to stop the distribution of the defective app. And since apps cannot be recalled like defective/unsafe products, the app developer would have to disable service to the app until they can roll out a fixed app and require users to update to it to continue using the service.

 

[Graphate]

[…]

Why do you think MacRumors is healthier to doomscroll than Instagram?

I don’t know if anyone thinks MR is healthier than Instagram. I think maybe comparing doomscrolling to doomscrolling it might actually be worse if you’re doomscrolling on MR because it’s more-or-less anonymous which might increase anti-social tendencies in some predisposed individuals. Whereas at least on Instagram you’d know, even if you were otherwise anonymous, the company knows everything about you which might offset some of that behavior.

However, Instagram encourages doomscrolling, whereas if MR is designed for doomscrolling it does a terrible job of it. That’s not to say there aren’t outliers who, when compared across platforms, are approximately like-for-like ‘injured’ or otherwise engaging in ‘unhealthy’ behavior.

 

[Smartuser]

Food products are already regulated, and that is a very good thing.

Flawless reasoning the logical consequence of which is that everything in the world should be regulated. Toenails should be trimmed regularly already, so why not extend this to priceless Ming vases?

The American mind has been moulded to respond negatively when the topic of regulation is discussed. Have you seen Dave Rubin's take on building code regulations?

“The European mind has been moulded to respond positively when the topic of regulation is discussed” is just as dumb an ad hominem and furthers the discussion just as much.

 

[contacos]

Don't act like it's only kids, in fact my sister's children for example don't even have access to social media.

It's 35 year olds like my BF 😭 or me when I dare to tap on the reels section which I try to avoid.

The worst for me is reddit, I even deleted the app but now I keep jumping onto the web version instead and I am like "why do I even expose myself to all the negativity" 🫣

 

[Rafagon]

The EU sure has a lot of ****ing rules!

 

[DamFu]

The fact a governing body is getting involved to this level of detail is absurd.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

META should just leave the EU

 

[Rafagon]

"did not adequately assess the risks of their addictive design on the physical and mental wellbeing of users, including minors and vulnerable adults."

This is laughable.

If you're going to try to enforce this, then get rid of vapes. Get rid of energy drinks. Get rid of booze.

I'm sure vape companies did "not adequately assess the risks of their addictive design..." either.

 

[mikebenton]

The American mind has been moulded to respond negatively when the topic of regulation is discussed. Have you seen Dave Rubin's take on building code regulations?

So you are comparing building code regulations to browsing Facebook feeds? So to that point - if regulations make sense for constructing a building, then regulations must make sense for every aspect of everything? Yes - this logic seems sound. You have earned my thumbs up.

I don't think folks hate regulations where it makes sense. I don't even think folks hate enforcers of regulations that make sense. As a union, if 'the people' decide that social media is harmful and decide that certain rules should be in place...ok. If this is what the majority wants - fine. BUT - the idea that you go and fine a business hundreds of millions of dollars for this newfound direction is bonkers. I just don't agree with these retroactive fines that the EU seems to have adapted as their business model.

 

[Happy_John]

Flawless reasoning the logical consequence of which is that everything in the world should be regulated. Toenails should be trimmed regularly already, so why not extend this to priceless Ming vases?

“The European mind has been moulded to respond positively when the topic of regulation is discussed” is just as dumb an ad hominem and furthers the discussion just as much.

This post reads as "I don't want to pay tax but I want less potholes in the roads".

Rather than only thinking about "regulation" you DON'T like, also acknowledge how regulation vastly improves your life.

The meal you eat today is unlikely to kill you by the morning.

Your car is unlikely to fall apart as you drive down the road at 100 mph.

The medication you may be prescribed has been tested and certified as safe before it it prescribed to you.

If your neighbor burns down your house you have legal redress.

Teachers are not allowed to beat children.

All of these benefits come to you through regulation.

The argument is NOT "regulation or no regulation". The argument is, "how do we format regulation to maximize its benefits while minimizing its negative consequences."

Doing nothing will achieve nothing. And claiming that there are no negative effects from social media is very much a case of deliberately burying your head in the sand.

You might not care about it now, but when it does negatively affect someone you care about, then you will care about it. And prevention is far better than treating an already severe disorder.

Any regulation of social media won't have much of a significant affect on adults now, or even on teenagers now, but it will have a positive affect on future generations.

The clampdown on smoking is a good analogy for this. The positive effect of strict smoking bans in public places, offices, restaurants etc denormalized smoking, and it was the generation(s) after the ban that benefited the most.

 

[Rafagon]

I'm going to get hate for this but this just shows how out of touch the EU is:

"did not adequately assess the risks of their addictive design on the physical and mental wellbeing of users, including minors and vulnerable adults."

While I know addictive design is a thing, you can't expect every app maker out there to do some kind of risk assessment, it's just ridiculous to even think about it. The onus is on the end user to regulate themselves with whatever hobby they have.

I agree!

And if the end user is a minor, the onus to regulate falls on the parents.

Don't want to fight with your teenager about internet usage? Don't get him or her a laptop when they're 12 years old!

 

[Plutonius]

The bureaucrats need something to justify their jobs 🙂.

 

[triumvirate]

Maybe the parents should be more involved in their kids lives instead of blaming the government

Wherever one falls on the “more government / personal freedom” spectrum, this is a fundamental truth that many seem uncomfortable with even considering. Personal & parental responsibility have been cast to the wayside in these last few decades and the absolute nightmare than is Gen Z / alpha are making that abundantly clear.

Meta definitely needs regulation but people also need personal accountability for themselves & their own children.

 

[Happy_John]

Meta:
- The feed is never-ending. No page breaks.
- The feed is created personally for you in real-time. A new feed every time you visit.
- The feed is created by AI based on your previous interactions.
- Their AI prediction models are trained to maximise "engagement". Their only job is to create a feed that will keep you engaged as long as possible.

MacRumors:
- None of the above.

That and the fact that MR is focused on a relatively narrow range of topics. There's a lot of slop, but it's Apple / tech / AI orientated slop.

 

[Happy_John]

Wherever one falls on the “more government / personal freedom” spectrum, this is a fundamental truth that many seem uncomfortable with even considering. Personal & parental responsibility have been cast to the wayside in these last few decades and the absolute nightmare than is Gen Z / alpha are making that abundantly clear.

Meta definitely needs regulation but people also need personal accountability for themselves & their own children.

But just saying this won't actually achieve anything. It might be true, but it's not a pragmatic solution, it's simply another way of "shoulder-shrugging".

When a problem arises, say a car crash, pointing the finger and saying "they're to blame" doesn't rewind time and magically erase the car crash, and its effects, from history.

Doing nothing will achieve nothing.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I was recently dating a woman in her mid 40's, mother, successful professional ... but with an addictive personality (I have one also).

She was COMPLETELY doom scroll addicted. We weren't even able to watch a show or movie without her having the phone out and checking it and just "scrolling" for no discernible purpose often.

The tech in play here can absolutely hijack many people and is far more of a problem than many are giving it credit for.

I get the instinct to say "have some self control!", but we must realize that it can be overwhelmed by the technology and techniques in play here. These companies have studied how to make things SUPER addictive, on purpose. That has been documented.

 

[vantelimus]

While I know addictive design is a thing, you can't expect every app maker out there to do some kind of risk assessment, it's just ridiculous to even think about it. The onus is on the end user to regulate themselves with whatever hobby they have.

If you don't want every app maker out there to do some kind of risk assessment, then how about just the ones with market values north of, say, $1 trillion, like Meta.

I guarantee they did a risk assessment. But rather than assess the risk of you ruining your life and the lives of your family, they assessed their risk of being financially liable when you do. What they likely found out is that they will make far more money ruining people's lives than they will have to pay in damages. No, that's no hyperbole. That's what we are taught in business school. And if you are under the impression that Meta would never intentionally put anyone at risk of harm, I challenge you to do this Google search: "Meta knew the risks of".

 

[sw1tcher]

"did not adequately assess the risks of their addictive design on the physical and mental wellbeing of users, including minors and vulnerable adults."

This is laughable.

If you're going to try to enforce this, then get rid of vapes. Get rid of energy drinks. Get rid of booze.

I'm sure vape companies did "not adequately assess the risks of their addictive design..." either.

The U.S. did try to "get rid of vapes," but then the tobacco industry lobbied and bribed someone who then changed their mind.

FDA drops guardrails on vaping industry in major Trump pivot

The Trump administration is pivoting hard on vaping, taking down guardrails that have limited the industry’s growth in recent years and making clear the tobacco industry’s enduring influence …

thehill.com

The Trump administration is pivoting hard on vaping, taking down guardrails that have limited the industry’s growth in recent years and making clear the tobacco industry’s enduring influence over Washington.

In the span of two weeks, the Trump administration granted marketing authorization to four flavored vaping products and issued new guidance allowing unauthorized vapes to stay on the market.

For almost a decade, federal authorities had sought to tamp down on the proliferation of flavored vapes that appeal to youth, including during President Trump’s first term.

New guidance from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does an end run around the agency’s scientific review process and could allow tobacco companies to begin selling flavored vaping products and nicotine pouches that have not been authorized by the agency.


[ . . . ]


During Trump’s first term, federal officials sought to counter the rise of flavored vape products, including moving to ban nontobacco flavored e-cigarettes in 2019.

At the time, Trump said, “We can’t allow people to get sick and allow our youth to be so affected.”

The tobacco industry strove to curry favor with Trump during the 2024 presidential election.

RAI Services Co. — a subsidiary of Reynolds American, which owns brands like Newport, Camel, Pall Mall — was the biggest corporate donor to the Trump campaign and its affiliated PACs according to Federal Election Commission filings, giving more than $10 million to the reelection bid.

Toward the end of his successful 2024 campaign, Trump vowed to “save vaping.”

 

[I7guy]

It's good to see that someone out there is willing to go after Meta, et al. Here in America we blame parents until we can figure out where we can transfer liability to.

That’s correct, it’s great to see government stepping in to parent our kids. I wholly support it. Government puts the ”fun” in dysfunctional. /s