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I am ready to completely switch to USB C. Still don’t get why Apple is fighting this.

So say the legislation says all chargers have to be USB-C. A few years pass, power needs change, devices change, and USB-C is no-longer the best way to charge devices. Technology moves on all the time and it's perfectly conceivable that the charger type which probably does fit all now won't be the best, or the greenest or the smallest or .. whatever is important at that time. However because of an EU law, which would take years to change, everyone is stuck with USB-C. You might thing, it's ok, the law will be changed to allow the new charger type, but it won't, because the whole EU market requires USB-C manufacturers will have to continue supporting it and the better replacements they have ideas for will never see the light of day.

Regulations like this which look so obvious to start with and are easy political wins often end up having long reaching consequences. I think it would be good to have a recommendation about chargers or even incentives for companies who sell products without chargers which work with a standard one customers already have. This is a better way to deal with the problem than have non-engineers legislate.
 
This actually is a good move by the EU. But knowing Apple rather than fall into the EU standard they'll just move forward with an iPhone with no wires instead of an iPhone with USB-C. I don't understand why they are so against it specifically on the iPhone but love it on all their other products. Hopefully Apple makes the right decision with a USB-C iPhone.
 
Yes. As mentioned several times already, if they REALLY want to eliminate waste, stop manufacturers from including new cables by default. Lord knows how many brand-new cables / charging blocks I have lying around. I don't even remove them from the box because I already have more than I need. But they keep giving me news ones with every purchase whether I want them or not.

I agree, this is the best way forward. If Apple stopped bundling chargers and cables, folks could just keep using either their old USB-A chargers and cables, or their newer USB-C chargers and cables. I switched to USB-C with my iPhone 8 and I never looked back. My iPhone and iPhone XS chargers and cables stayed in the box.
 
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What can lightning do that USB-C can’t?
Lightning is a substantially thinner connector and has no tab to break.
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Time for Apple to do back charging only and wireless data transfer
That's going to break CarPlay, since most CarPlay systems don't support wireless.
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As for Apple's comment, I do understand them but to say it creates more waste is utter non sense, it creates less, why do we need a new charger with each and every phone.
New chargers are often better. Buy a new iPhone, get an 18W charger with it to replace my current 5W charger. Also, you know if Apple didn't include chargers iPhones wouldn't be any cheaper.
 
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What is determined by the charger though, is the voltage output, which does effect the power drawn, but for USB chargers, this voltage is a mandated and constant standard.

This is the problem though. There is no mandated and constant standard voltage with USB-C devices. The power bricks themselves support a set range of V-A combinations, devices request a supported combination from the charger, with some devices outright not charging even from some chargers that exceed the wattage requirements for the device.

This is exacerbated by some cables themselves not being rated for certain charging requirements. There have been issues with type-c charging combinations damaging devices.
 
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Committees and consortiums are politicians.
standards bodies are not politicians, nor do politicians have the appropriate knowledge.
Bill Gates couldn’t imagine needing more than 640k of RAM.
That is an urban myth, Bill Gates didn't say that. Bill gates is smarter than to say something like that.
Changing from lightning to USB-C will cost me more than just sticking with what I have.
That may be. But I already have bags of different types of USB. I don't have any spare lighning ones - because they always fail in the end.
But thats not the point.
The point is that manufacturers of phones should all be using at least using a common power brick. If the port is common to, then that might be a bonus.
If any device you buy can use bricks already in your possession, then that is one less power brick to end up in trash. Same goes for cables.
Specifying the brick and the port is even dumber than specifying the port alone...
In your opinion, but every bit of waste saved is good in the long run.
Would also save customers billions in the long run
We haven’t been stuck with variants if USB or HDMI because companies are free to innovate and don’t need 27 countries to agree it’s ok to update the standard.
We haven't been stuck because standard bodies which comprise of lots of companies can agree on specs and the road map.
Banning lead? Sure, that’s a good use of government regulation. Connectors on phones? Let the free market do its job.
That might be good if companies did that but they have proven time and time again that companies like Apple try to create a money spinning idea of licenced cable parts.
Apple should have gone USB-C rather than trying to create the expensive lightning cable
Why stop at only one or two orders of magnitude? They should require your Tesla use the same port.
Do you always use a strawman to counter arguments? Thats a dumb statement on so many levels.
How much power does a tesla use and how much power can you put through a small connector.
Why do you think the world needs just a single small connector? No one is advocating that every piece of hardware uses the same port. But every piece of equipment where it makes sense will
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Lightning is a substantially thinner connector and has no tab to break.
All of my lightning cables eventually fail in two modes
1) At the strain gauge
2) The lightning tab breaks off
I have yet to have a failed usb cable.
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We don’t have “50 different mobile connectors and charging bricks,” we have 2: Lightning and USB-C.
My cable box begs to differ, from all my phones in the past, from all my tech in the past, they all use a different power connector.

We also have 2 mobile OSes; should the EU dictate—for the entire world—that every phone has to run Android, too?
Look up strawman
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Just because you can't imagine a better solution than USB-C is a bad reason.
No its not. Just in the same way most people can't imagine phones or laptops getting any thinner.
Once you get to a certain level there are tradeoffs to be made.
I am not saying there will never be a smaller connector that USB-C, simply that I can't see a need for a smaller connector.
30 years ago no one could imagine a computer needing more than 2MB of memory.
Urban myths
It's a very very bad precedent to lock the industry into a specific standard that will be outdated before you know it.
Strawman. No one is advocating that standards do not move. We have mobile communication standards and they change over time like 3-4-5G.
Imagine a paper thin device or transparent screen invented 5 years from now. Maybe there's a new extremely small connector to be invented to pair with that amazing device. But thanks to the USB-C requirement, no device can be sold without a USB-C connector, so therefore no device can be sold that's thinner than today's USB C connector.
Strawman. No one is advocating that we stick with any one connector for the rest of time
 
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What a bad idea. So we'll never get a charging solution better than USB-C now. Politicians shouldn't get involved in technology, especially when they don't understand it.
It seems like it’s you who doesn’t understand. The EU wants a universal charging method, it just happens that in 2020 that is USBC. They don’t specify which charging method.
 
standards bodies are not politicians, nor do politicians have the appropriate knowledge.

That is an urban myth, Bill Gates didn't say that. Bill gates is smarter than to say something like that.

That may be. But I already have bags of different types of USB. I don't have any spare lighning ones - because they always fail in the end.
But thats not the point.
The point is that manufacturers of phones should all be using at least using a common power brick. If the port is common to, then that might be a bonus.
If any device you buy can use bricks already in your possession, then that is one less power brick to end up in trash. Same goes for cables.

In your opinion, but every bit of waste saved is good in the long run.
Would also save customers billions in the long run

We haven't been stuck because standard bodies which comprise of lots of companies can agree on specs and the road map.

That might be good if companies did that but they have proven time and time again that companies like Apple try to create a money spinning idea of licenced cable parts.
Apple should have gone USB-C rather than trying to create the expensive lightning cable

Do you always use a strawman to counter arguments? Thats a dumb statement on so many levels.
How much power does a tesla use and how much power can you put through a small connector.
Why do you think the world needs just a single small connector? No one is advocating that every piece of hardware uses the same port. But every piece of equipment where it makes sense will
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All of my lightning cables eventually fail in two modes
1) At the strain gauge
2) The lightning tab breaks off
I have yet to have a failed usb cable.
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My cable box begs to differ, from all my phones in the past, from all my tech in the past, they all use a different power connector.


Look up strawman
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No its not. Just in the same way most people can't imagine phones or laptops getting any thinner.
Once you get to a certain level there are tradeoffs to be made.
I am not saying there will never be a smaller connector that USB-C, simply that I can't see a need for a smaller connector.

Urban myths

Strawman. No one is advocating that standards do not move. We have mobile communication standards and they change over time like 3-4-5G.

Strawman. No one is advocating that we stick with any one connector for the rest of time
I still have my original cable from my ipad 2 and iphone 4. I don't have issues with fraid and broken cables.

What, imo, government should regulate is things for the common good:
- food safety
- water safety
- vehicle safety and pollution standards
- drug safety
and a million other things that are important for society to function properly.

What, imo, you are confusing is the slippery slope with a strawman.

What is government going to regulate next?
- type of screen: oled vs lcd
- type of wifi chip
- thickness of phone?

Standards are fine and they have a place, but not to stifle innovation in an industry that prides itself on making leap after leap for the benefit of consumers.
 
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I was wondering why so many Brits were fussing to leave the EU. I understand a little better now, and cheers to them for finally doing so. After all, who is the EU to decide what charging cable Apple devices are and are not compatible with?
 
If laptop batteries were all mandated to be exactly the same back then... then the innovation when Apple created terraced batteries would never have occurred!
Apple was right- it is definition of stifling innovation to mandate “don’t even bother looking for a better way to do that... we have made a law stating in can ONLY be done the old way”.
I don’t understand how anyone even slightly forward thinking could get behind this.

As I remember, they had different sized batteries for different capabilities. So it wasn't *one* batter fits all, but *one* battery for each size of battery demanded by the equipment. It was a good idea. I have an HP EliteBook that rocks, but the battery is dead-ish, and I can't find a new one. It's still a great notebook, that needs a new battery. *shrug* It makes sense to standardize on things that should be commodity items. We don't need special batteries for each car that we have. Cheers...
 
It's bad for people with Lightning gear like myself, but there are many new worldwide standards, USB-C being one of them. It seems like the Lightning supporters are saying, we want our innovation but not yours. Lightning is there because USB-C wasn't ready.

Yes, USB-C is bigger than Lightning and maybe not quite as good a connector, though I've seen so many broken Lightning plugs. Different USB-C ports do different things, but that is only a reason to have more standardization.
 
Politicians are generally not good electrical engineers.

If these socialists had their way a few years ago we would be stuck with micro USB for decades to
come. It’s worse than design by committee.
 
Electrical engineer here.

Nice write up. Thanks!

But you didn’t mention the cable resistance. I once had a car/cable combination that would see the phone battery drain to nothing on a long journey using Maps, despite it being ‘on charge’.

For completeness you should perhaps also mention that cheap fake charging bricks will almost certainly kill you if you use them in the bathroom ;)
 
Apple will just expedite their plan to switch to wireless charging only. They can easily argue that pretty much every other device also now offers the feature. Thus, uniformity.
 
Guys, I don't think this means innovation will be stifled. It just means if you're gonna innovate, do it TOGETHER, and for a good reason.

I know it's scary when the govt starts butting in, but we're talking about the most ubiquitous of devices, that get replaced roughly every 24 months, and just about the damn connector used. How did USB-C come about in the first place, or HDMI, Ethernet, etc?? USB-C truly is one port that can rule them all, for a WHILE, especially when combined with Thunderbolt.

EVERYONE is adopting it, except you-know-who on low-end iPads, iPhones, and peripherals. Apple needs to STHU and finalize the transition NOW.

Most of the connectors in use are agreed upon by a consortium of some sort, and go through standards organizations like IEEE, IEC, and the like.

Let's not panic and put our tinfoil hats on. The punishment comes AFTER the crime. Just keep an eye out, though.
 
What a bad idea. So we'll never get a charging solution better than USB-C now. Politicians shouldn't get involved in technology, especially when they don't understand it.

Yeah I really can't see why they feel they have the right to step in and interfere with the market on this one.

Nobody is forcing anybody to buy an iPhone!!! Literally nobody and if you hate their chargers you can buy an Android with USB-C.

Apple's invested private resources into their own charging solutions and has obtained patents for them. Why can the EU come in and tell Apple they can no longer use these technologies and MUST adopt their competition's solution? Seems silly to me...
 
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thinner,
more robust,
no consortium/licensing fees,
no superfluous extra-high-speed transfer (I don't know of any application for the mobile phone that requires or makes sense to do so).

Sorry but you're VERY wrong there about 'licensing fees' ... Mi-Fi standard or whatever Apple forces for licensing and using Lightning is a HUGE pot of gold for Apple's revenue, especially for accessory manufacturers to build to spec ... you know for what 'robust' connection.

The real reason why Apple is not yet brought the iPhone to USB-C is THIS!

Apple MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac Pro, iMac Pro, Mac mini ALL currently use Thunderbolt3 ... even based on USB-C the bandwidth is higher, for now until USB-C 4. Intel has broken out of Apple's partnership with branding and the spec. This year lots of USB-C 4 devices will debut and Apple's 'Thunderbolt' brand may give way just like FW400/800 did long ago. Unless Thunderbolt 4 debuts with double data rate speeds.
 
Wasn’t it just chargers originally? Now ports? Weird
Ages ago cables were part of the wall wart (charger is actually the phone) now because they have detachable at both they need to work out what's best for everyone's use and stop huge amounts of waste and also if say someone from Android buys and iPhone or vice versa their cables will work and you don't need to keep buying new ones and new wall warts that end up in landfills every few years I imagine. It also should apply to other gadgets that use different cables, like smart meter displays, a universal cable would make life so much easier around the home.

The EU are stepping in because manufacturers did not step in line when they wanted all chargers for want of a better word to be all the same before, now I guess it would make life easy for even more people and I imagine save a lot of waste. My iPads USB-C cable is working fine, its not loose and it is more universal than lightning as far as use on other phones and computers. When the next big universal connector comes in everyone agrees to change to that, makes sense to me. I really cant see why people get so uptight about what appears to be common sense really. (not you by the way)
 
Apple turned into a company that hates standards and loves proprietary Apple only solutions.
My iPad Pro has USB-C, Macbook Pro USB-C too. iPhone 11 Pro Lightning - Wtf?!?

Apple has an iron grip on Lightning and everything has to be licensed. Really sad that we need laws to move forward - btw right to repair is still missing but will be necessary to stop Apple soldering RAM and SSD.
 
Wasn’t it just chargers originally? Now ports? Weird
I thought the same thing about fuel filler ports.
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Yeah I really can't see why they feel they have the right to step in and interfere with the market on this one.

Nobody is forcing anybody to buy an iPhone!!! Literally nobody and if you hate their chargers you can buy an Android with USB-C.

Apple's invested private resources into their own charging solutions and has obtained patents for them. Why can the EU come in and tell Apple they can no longer use these technologies and MUST adopt their competition's solution? Seems silly to me...
What kind of fuel port or diagnostic port or 12v socket do you have on your car?
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Politicians are generally not good electrical engineers.
Yeah, I bet you are glad they don't write standards.
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I was wondering why so many Brits were fussing to leave the EU. I understand a little better now, and cheers to them for finally doing so. After all, who is the EU to decide what charging cable Apple devices are and are not compatible with?
And Apple put USB-C into their laptops and iPads without regulation. They must have thought that usb-C is a good choice.

If I quote Apple - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209186
Use the versatile USB-C port
 
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Government is not the answer. This is a spec of dung on an elephants backside. Sickens me that folks want mommy and daddy to fix this for them.

Do you understand that government is not mommy and daddy but you and the rest of people around you? You actually prefer that you have no saying to any of this? Just let the corporations decide and let them do what ever they want? That is like hitting you own head with a hammer.
 
I like the idea of this, but legislation isn't the way forward here IMO.

I tend to agree with the broader principle, but there are times when regulators step in to ensure some basic standards. It's a delicate balance.

What happens if someone wants to release a phone with only wireless charging?

Nothing, unless the EU writes the regulations to cover wireless chargers as well as the portable devices (phones, tablets, e-readers, etc.) it is targeting.

And then there's the mess of USB-C chargers themselves. Different wattages, and sometimes the spec isn't exactly the same (e.g. Nintendo switch).

USB-C chargers are actually pretty orderly.

Basic, low wattage Type-C chargers up to 15W employ conform to the USB spec calling for the standard 5V, at up to 3A.

Beyond that, they employ the USB-PD spec, with allows up to 20V at 5A, for a 100W maximum, negotiated by the device being charged.

The wattage rating denotes the ultimate power delivery capacity, but PD is the de facto standard for high wattage Type-C adapters on the market.

With the convergence of USB-PD and QuickCharge 4+, there should be even greater interoperability between the major "fast" wired charging standards employed by Apple and many Android OEMs.

I don't own a Switch, but my understanding is that the issues center around a non-conforming Type-C connector in the docks, and poor implementation by some third-party accessory makers. But the overall spec is still USB-PD.

I mean, the next logical conclusion is that we ditch wires completely, how does that work with a mandated USB-C port.

1) the regulations have yet to be written, so nothing has been mandated as of yet.

2) the goal of the regulators is standardization of wired charging solutions, not whether devices must include them.


I'm hardly a fan of some of the decisions the USB-IF made governing the implementation and marketing of USB-C and USB 3.1+, and there are still issues to be worked out, but as far as Apple goes, current iPhones already conform to USB-PD, so the only thing lacking is the connector.

In that regard, Apple could opt to ditch a user-facing physical port altogether sooner rather than later to avoid the regulations, and it wouldn't surprise me.
 
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We also have 2 mobile OSes; should the EU dictate—for the entire world—that every phone has to run Android, too?
This is a horrible analogy. One has nothing to do with the other, you don't buy separate OSes as you do with chargers, for one.
 
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