EU Likely to Charge Apple With Anti-Competitive Behavior This Week

[Gabebear]

Rough figures To be fair it has shrunk a little when the UK left and before that it was 'nearly' 2x give or take 100 million people 🤷‍♂️🤣

1.3X isn't nearly 2x as big. The EU does have a larger population that the US, but the EU just doesn't swing that much weight in this.

Countries within the EU are not on the same page(e.g. Ireland) and the crazy EU bureaucracy leadership means that next year it's likely that someone will be leading the EU that will just dismiss all this. With the UK gone the EU has a new power imbalance that will need fixed. I'm sure Germany will want to get new treaties signed that enshrine their power over the EU bureaucracy. Germany is already unilaterally vetoing doling out more money to the EU.

 

[Havoc035]

Apple absolutely have material market pricing ability in app distribution. There are literally dozens of examples of companies directly citing that their pricing has to take in to account Apple's mandatory 30% cap. Apple will lose this case. Badly.

Of course they are citing this. They're companies, they want more money for themselves. I don't see it, not in the prices in the market nor in marketshare. Again, Spotify is perfectly able to match Apple Music's pricing and they have far more (paying) customers.

While you could argue about the exact height of the fees, the model that Apple currently uses to operate the App Store (charge companies making a big income on digital goods the moste) is a fair model. It allows small app developers to use all Apple's facilities in publishing apps for almost no money at all. Those that do make a lot of money enable Apple to offer the facilities for a low price.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Google has a) already settled a significant case in the EU and b) doesn't force apps to use their in app payment mechanism. For instance, you can buy books through Comixology on Android using your Amazon payment details without Google receiving any cut whatsoever.

Not according to the policies published to devs. Google is in the same boat as Apple as far as I can tell.

 

[mikeyy00]

The investigation looks at whether Apple’s market share in iOS leveraged an advantage to its market share in music streaming services.

It seems quite clear that it did as streaming is relatively new to Apple compared to a 14 year old OS.

No different to MS and Internet explorer decades ago as far as I can see.

Except in Europe, iOS market share is significantly less than Android. In the US it's closer to 50/50 60/40.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple can easily avoid this by setting the commission they charge direct competitors to zero. If an Apple service exists in a category, then the category's rate should be zero.

So, if you are a music app, like Spotify or Pandora, a fitness app like Peloton, or a streaming app like Disney+ or Netflix, then Apple should say there is no commission on their in-app purchases so that Apple does not lend itself an unfair advantage.

Either that, or Apple collects 30% of it's own app/service purchases to split equally among it's competitors.

Which misses the whole point. It's not about competition. It makes no sense to pay money to Apple Music's competitors because none of them have their own app stores that Apple Music partakes in (it's not like Netflix helps to distribute TV+).

The purpose of collecting that 30% (or 15% subscription after the first year, which companies like Spotify like to go to great pains to avoid mentioning) is to go towards offsetting the costs of running the App Store. It is in the interests of most developers to have a thriving and vibrant App Store economy.

One can argue that Spotify is big enough and has enough brand cachet that the App Store no longer serves any benefit to them. However, I suspect that at this point, Spotify has managed to move enough of their subscribers beyond iTunes billing (that and a large part of their user base is likely on Android).

As such, I don't think Spotify's main gripe is about paying Apple that 30/15% (and the amount they are currently paying Apple is probably a very small percentage of their overall revenue). Doing away with it is not going to meaningful increase their profits in any way. Rather, it's about control. Companies like Epic and Spotify want to be able to bypass the App Store and do what they want with their customers directly without any meddling by Apple.

And now is the last chance they have to do so, because if Apple wins this lawsuit (and I believe they will), then Apple's grip over their App Store becomes absolute and their word will become the law of the land.

In short, this is Spotify's last stand, and their desperation is showing.

 

[ForkHandles]

Not even close. Microsoft threatened OEMs if they uninstalled IE or installed a different browser. Microsoft also claimed IE could not be uninstalled. Apple does neither of these. In fact, Apple provides a store where Spotify can be downloaded for free. No cost to Spotify for bandwidth, etc. Also, Apple provides the ability to uninstall Music, and even the recent ability to set Spotify as the default music app.

The behaviour of each company is irrelevant, this is an anti competitive judgement, not a who’s the baddest contest.
Does Apple have an advantage in the streaming market as a result of its advantage in the iOS market?
It’s abattante might not be exactly 30%, I suggest it maybe close.
that’s all this is about.

 

[ForkHandles]

Except in Europe, iOS market share is significantly less than Android. In the US it's closer to 50/50 60/40.

I don’t know what market share one has to have in order to be accused of anti competitive behaviour. The mobile OS market is currently run as a duopoly, percentages maybe not be too relevant.

 

[1258186]

I’m glad to see this investigation finally coming to its conclusion. Hopefully we can get alternative payment methods as soon as possible.

 

[I7guy]

I’m glad to see this investigation finally coming to its conclusion. Hopefully we can get alternative payment methods as soon as possible.

I don't think it works like that, but I could be wrong.

 

[Rogifan]

Wow. They are very generous and just than.

If the argument is Apple deserves 30% because they provide the platform and they provide access to customers then why does it only apply to certain things? Why don’t Uber and Lyft have to give Apple 30% of every ride booked?

 

[I7guy]

[...] Apple will lose this case. Badly.

Is that opinion or fact, because the last I looked nobody knows how this will play out.

 

[IG88]

Spotify argues this gives Apple an unfair advantage because it's unable to compete with Apple Music's standard $9.99 per month price within the ‌‌App Store‌‌.

Hmm. Something just hit me. Apple Music is available on Android. I wonder if Apple pays Google a 30% cut of the $9.99?

 

[Glideslope]

1.3X isn't nearly 2x as big. The EU does have a larger population that the US, but the EU just doesn't swing that much weight in this.

Countries within the EU are not on the same page(e.g. Ireland) and the crazy EU bureaucracy leadership means that next year it's likely that someone will be leading the EU that will just dismiss all this. With the UK gone the EU has a new power imbalance that will need fixed. I'm sure Germany will want to get new treaties signed that enshrine their power over the EU bureaucracy. Germany is already unilaterally vetoing doling out more money to the EU.

The beginning of the end. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[ForkHandles]

1.3X isn't nearly 2x as big. The EU does have a larger population that the US, but the EU just doesn't swing that much weight in this.

Countries within the EU are not on the same page(e.g. Ireland) and the crazy EU bureaucracy leadership means that next year it's likely that someone will be leading the EU that will just dismiss all this. With the UK gone the EU has a new power imbalance that will need fixed. I'm sure Germany will want to get new treaties signed that enshrine their power over the EU bureaucracy. Germany is already unilaterally vetoing doling out more money to the EU.

Bear gabe little matters related to the EU, he clearly knows nothing about its leadership structure.

 

[ForkHandles]

The beginning of the end. I'm looking forward to it.

For twenty years the uninformed have been looking forward to the demise of the EU. Bless you both.

 

[WaxedJacket]

There appears to be a knee jerk reaction by some to just take any action the EU declares in good faith and cheer them on. I'd at least want to take a moment and question this motion before praising them. One can be Pro-EU and still hold them accountable on implementing irrational laws on business.

 

[Ansath]

Does Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, et al, take an existing game made by a third party, duplicate it entirely, make changes to the UI to avoid DMCA, and sell it for less on their stores?

Does Apple? 🙄

 

[jlc1978]

Apple absolutely have material market pricing ability in app distribution. There are literally dozens of examples of companies directly citing that their pricing has to take in to account Apple's mandatory 30% cap. Apple will lose this case. Badly.

If it's capped at 30% because of apple that's a benefit to the developers. Remove the cap and what would they get charged?

Customer already payed for the device and licensed the OS. Don’t think Spotify contends paying for the App Store app hosting service and app review. But contends that an in app purchase is their sale not an App Store sale. Why are they being forced to give the sale to someone else?

Because it's a store, and just like very other store that sells something adds a markup?

If Apple is forced to give up taking a cut of subscriptions i suspect they will find other ways to make up for the loss, such as charging developers who have subscription models for placement on the App Store, notarization, review, per download, etc.. In the end, the smaller developers will feel the pain.

I'm sure Germany will want to get new treaties signed that enshrine their power over the EU bureaucracy. Germany is already unilaterally vetoing doling out more money to the EU.

Germany no doubt is tiring of bailing out other EU countries and will flex its economic might whenever it feels like it.

 

[jlc1978]

For twenty years the uninformed have been looking forward to the demise of the EU. Bless you both.

The biggest threat to the EU is the differences in the economic strength of its members. My guess is a demise of the Euro more likely, since that would let countries float their currency and become more cost competitive against say Germany.

 

[macdos]

The beginning of the end. I'm looking forward to it.

No, these are glorious times, with expanded ties over Eurasia, all while the US tries to catch up with infrastructure, environment, trains, digital connectivity… let's tax Apple and other American predators even harder.

 

[ForkHandles]

The biggest threat to the EU is the differences in the economic strength of its members. My guess is a demise of the Euro more likely, since that would let countries float their currency and become more cost competitive against say Germany.

Part of the EU project is to inject money into the poorer nations through development grants. By making neighbouring countries richer they hope to increase overall EU GDP and make currency even stronger. The ancillary benefit is that poorer nations will come to the more wealthier ones for assistance with infrastructure.

 

[ForkHandles]

There appears to be a knee jerk reaction by some to just take any action the EU declares in good faith and cheer them on. I'd at least want to take a moment and question this motion before praising them. One can be Pro-EU and still hold them accountable on implementing irrational laws on business.

They say that communism is exemplified by all consumers having to go through only one supplier.
Capitalism, as Bezos shows, is able to produce very similar results if left unchecked.
Broadly I am in favour of an organisation representing the people having the power to investigate such matters.

 

[ingambe]

Apple is a direct competitor to Spotify with Apple music.
Taking a share of Spotify subscription to let them access their platform is anti-competitive. Even if it's more complex than this, users can indirectly subscribe through Spotify's website, but it's an unfair advantage to Apple's easy in-app purchase.
If I were Spotify, I would be mad too.

IMHO Apple shouldn't take a share if they propose a direct competitor of the service. For example, they shouldn't take a share of the in-app subscription of Netflix. Just my opinion, for what it worth.

 

[jimbobb24]

Good bye Sony Playstation Store. Adios Microsoft game store. I wish there was a way for the few people obsessed with this to get what they want without screwing it up for everyone else who is happy with the current marketplace.

Going forward this creates a unique problem. Can you build a store so successful that you have to let others in or its anti-competitive? I hope they just fine Apple a billion and let it go. Just pay off the govt leeches - thats what they want anyway.

 

[jimbobb24]

They say that communism is exemplified by all consumers having to go through only one supplier.
Capitalism, as Bezos shows, is able to produce very similar results if left unchecked.
Broadly I am in favour of an organisation representing the people having the power to investigate such matters.

Have to because of guns and gulags and choose to...those are pretty different.

No organization represents the people...they represent their own interests and special interests. We just vote to make us feel like we are running things.