EU Moves One Step Closer to Mandating Apple to Switch iPhone, iPad, and AirPods to USB-C

[hcherry]

Wrong based on what metric? Companies are forced to use standard interfaces all the time. It's why we have a standard interface for charing electric vehicles and Tesla wasn't allowed to use their own. Everyone benefited from that because now teslas don't need adapters at non-tesla chargers and non-teslas can theoretically use the Tesla charging stations.

Wrong in two ways:

1. It’s morally wrong to violate someone’s agency, to force someone to choose something that they don’t consider best for them (again, assuming their choices are not violating the rights of others)
2. B/c Tesla was forced to use a specific standard, we might never know if they’d have come up with something better than what already existed. What if the option they’d have developed led to better battery health or required less material to be built?

 

[frostbit3]

MicroUSB had so many drawbacks that USB-C doesn't have in terms of flexibility and future capabilities, it's probably why they weren't mandated to include a microB port on their phones...
As I keep pointing out, Apple is making everything harder on themselves by not working to help develop a good shared port (they did help with the USB-C). If they want a good high quality standard, advocate for that, but they don't want that, they want vendor lock in more than they actually care about the quality of the port.

Hindsight yes, MicroUSB had many flaws. And USB-C (and lightning) will have many flaws compared to what comes next, that's the point. The needle moves forward as the needs and technology changes. We don't need a government body standing in the middle of that.
Remove Apple from the equation, because I'm not arguing Lightning vs USB-C. I'm arguing that a government saying that your device HAS to have USB-C is way over reaching. That means a company can't develop some special use Windows tablet that has no ports because they innovated in some special way so that you don't need ports.
If you remove Apple vs USB-C from the equation, you quickly realize how this is a terrible idea. Things will change, and I for one do not want to just sit here and *hope* that the EU will move quickly to allow some other interface when USB-C inevitably is no longer the best interface.

 

[Analog Kid]

Well, the world has put its money in USB-C. All laptops and tablets (including Apples), almost all phones and most periphery (if not using MicroUSB) is using USB-C. The few Lightning-connect iPhones have become a niche product now.
It's unlikely that any developer of an innovative product would afford to bet on Lightning any longer - in particular since even Apple as been expected to move iPhones to USB-C for some time.

I think you're mixing up how consumers and expert committees acquire their information.

You also seem to miss that it's the interface (e.g. the connector) that must be standardized to let the consumers freely choose the products they want to purchase - on either side of the interface.

If it's such a foregone conclusion, then why do we need a law?

I work hard for the money I earn. I go to a store to by a product. I look at the full variety of options available to me and the multidimensional differences between them. I choose which combination of features best suits my needs. The companies that provide me the best value to me (and only me) will get my hard earned dollars. Whatever view I hold in a public forum, it's what I'm actually willing to trade my hard earned money for that matters. Each of us make similar decisions every day. The aggregate of those decisions keeps some companies profitable and makes other companies not.

You're acting like the interface isn't part of the product. It is part of the product. Forcing Apple to adopt USB-C doesn't allow consumers to "freely choose they products they want to purchase on either side of the interface", it forces consumers to replace everything they have with USB-C. It's the opposite of choice. I like choice.

 

[akeita]

I know it's not in Apple's nature to actually give a $h1t about anything they've released more than six months prior, but if they really want CarPlay to get used, they'll need to introduce some product/workaround for all of us who can't afford to just go out and buy a new car to use Apple's solution to infotainment.

If you really think Apple don't give a **** about anything they've released more than six months prior, you have not seriously owned an Android device.

 

[AndiG]

Wrong in two ways:

1. It’s morally wrong to violate someone’s agency, to force someone to choose something that they don’t consider best for them (again, assuming their choices are not violating the rights of others)
2. B/c Tesla was forced to use a specific standard, we might never know if they’d have come up with something better than what already existed. What if the option they’d have developed led to better battery health or required less material to be built?

According to your point 2:
Under normal circumstances industry and regulators dicscuss standards together. This is an everyday process. Apple didn‘t suggest its lightning port for a global standard (and the current lightning port design is not capable to handle USB-C). So the lightning thing remained proprietary Apple tech and the regulators decided to remove it for various reasons.

Story told, Apples fault…

 

[goobot]

It’s not about accessory dollars. If it was, they would have kept lightning on everything. It’s about lightning being superior to USB-C for a phone charge cable. Simple as that.

It absolutely is about accessory dollars. Most lightning accessories are made for iPhone not iPad so why would it matter.

 

[jimbobb24]

But it's the governments role to enable free markets (by defining interfaces so that companies can develop products that can be connected), it's the governments role to break up monopolies (and to help avoid consumers being locked in), it's the governments role to help protect the environment (reducing the amount of electronic waste, at least in the future), it's the governments role to set reliable guidelines for companies (so they can plan their developments, product releases or purchases and can compete on a level playing ground).

Free markets exist without govts. Free market is the default among humans. Well that and theft. The govt reduces free market by specifying interfaces. Free markets are not perfectly efficient they are maximally efficient and insanely efficient compared to their alternatives. So sometimes their will be a perceived inefficiency of mismatching interfaces but since no one can measure the gains that may have happened because of it we don’t know if there was net gain or loss of efficiency.

A few of the govt roles you talk about exist because of particular issues but all can be solved with out govt and have been many times. A noble prize was just given for observing how people often solve the “tragedy of the commons” without govt.

And then some are just pure fascism - “set reliable guidelines so they can plan for production”. What in the world?!? Maybe in 1940s Germany, 1920s Russia.

 

[bcortens]

Wrong in two ways:

1. It’s morally wrong to violate someone’s agency, to force someone to choose something that they don’t consider best for them (again, assuming their choices are not violating the rights of others)
2. B/c Tesla was forced to use a specific standard, we might never know if they’d have come up with something better than what already existed. What if the option they’d have developed led to better battery health or required less material to be built?

1. This is a very narrow view of agency and rights and one which is outside the scope of this conversation but I will just say that many people don't subscribe to this view of what governments should be allowed to do.
2. They have a standard in North America that is unique to their own vehicles and so far seems to only lead to them having their own exclusive charge network and being less convenient to use with the rest of the chargers that exist (and preventing non-tesla vehicles from using the Tesla supercharging network). We have no evidence to suggest that the NA Tesla chargers are superior to the EU ones.

 

[Unggoy Murderer]

That assumes the law won't mandate having a charging port on the device in the first place.

Qi charging still requires a "cable", and if that cable isn't USB-C going into the phone I don't think it would qualify.

Qi doesn't require a cable at all, it's a wireless charging standard. Whatever powers the charging surface is different however, it could be plugged into a power supply, or integrated into something like a desk, or car dashboard, etc. USB-C power supply for those would make sense I suppose.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

But…… but….. socialism is so awesome and government always makes the right call, right? No one should have to, or be able to decide for themselves, or their own businesses.

Brought to you by the people who think there are no such things as necessities for running a functional society, and a visit to the ER should cost whatever the hospital wants to charge and the market should be completely unregulated on all matters... because who cares about the well-being and finances of the people who make up the vast majority of society if single individuals and businesses can turn literally anything into an industry?

LOL.

The EU doesn't make regulations for fun. It makes them to ensure fairness in the tug of war between businesses and consumers.

If you stopped to think about your "The EU is a socialist hellhole" fantasy for once and looked at EU BNP then maybe you'd see that this is very far from your imaginings and really mostly the same free market capitalism that you hold so dearly just with a few more (very important) regulations that make it so much fairer for all parties involved.

 

[egyhenger]

EU should move one step closer to mandate other manufacturers to switch to Lightning

 

[akempf]

Good point, it's only taken them 10+ years of talking about this to actually doing it. Clearly they'll be super fast at adopting a new connector.

MicroUSB was required from, around, 2013 and lead to a huge market for all types of MicroUSB devices.
It was the right standard at the time - but the regulation was not enforced where other features were required, leaving space for Lightning and others.
Now we have USB-C, the standard used in all devices (bar iPhone with Lightning - which has moved from an innovator to an almost obsolete connector). So, now USB-C will be the standard - and will likely stay useful for a longer time, given the power and data abilities (which are stat of the art even for desktops).
Once USB-C gets obsolete, it will be replaced.

 

[bcortens]

Brought to you by the people who think there are no such things as necessities for running a functional society, and a visit to the ER should cost whatever the hospital wants to charge because the market should be completely unregulated on all matters... because who cares about the well-being and finances of the people who make up the vast majority of society if single individuals and businesses can turn literally anything into an industry?

The EU doesn't make regulations for fun. It makes them to ensure fairness in the tug of war between businesses and consumers.

If you stopped to think about your "The EU is a socialist hellhole" fantasy for once and looked at EU BNP then maybe you'd see that this is very far from your imaginings and really mostly the same free market capitalism that you hold so dearly just with a few more (very important) regulations that make it so much fairer for all parties involved.

Free market ideologues seem quite common around here sadly...

 

[Apple$]

Fabulous! Down with the Lighting port!

 

[I7guy]

[…]


So what iPhone will I buy? I guess I keep using no phone.

[…]

The Honda dealership did me wrong. What Honda should I buy? I guess I’ll keep buying Honda.

 

[akempf]

This isn’t the business of government. This kind of thinking is what is currently destroying the US. Fortunately there are still people left who can actually think for themselves.

Hm. Are you referring to the destruction caused by Trump, the after efffects caused by Trump, the destruction of Trump's image of the US as resource for increasing his personal wealth, or the idea of the US being a state controlled by Russia?

 

[hcherry]

According to your point 2:
Under normal circumstances industry and regulators dicscuss standards together. This is an everyday process. Apple didn‘t suggest its lightning port for a global standard (and the current lightning port design is not capable to handle USB-C). So the lightning thing remained proprietary Apple tech and the regulators decided to remove it for various reasons.

Story told, Apples fault…

There’s already an imbedded assumption there that we must move towards 1 standard. And because Apple didn’t either adopt the standard others wanted or didn’t fight to make their approach the main standard, they must now be forced into a choice.

Why?

I’ve seen no answer that doesn’t rely on 1) “I have a personal preference that it be this way” or 2) bureaucrats know better than customers how the technology should develop.

And that makes forcing people and companies into this wrong.

 

[I7guy]

Why would the EU be stuck? If you look at this type of legislation, the EU is now quite often leading the world - with other regions of the world usually following. If there's a need for a successor to USB-C, the EU will make it the new standard - where's the problem?

By the time there is a new standard for the EU the rest of the world will be generations ahead of the EU. It’s not a problem for me, but if I lived in the EU I’d be annoyed they are stuck in usb-c.

 

[usagora]

You asked me for an answer. Here you go:
No, it's not the governments role to change a product so that I can use it excactly how I want to use it.

But it's the governments role to enable free markets (by defining interfaces so that companies can develop products that can be connected), it's the governments role to break up monopolies (and to help avoid consumers being locked in), it's the governments role to help protect the environment (reducing the amount of electronic waste, at least in the future), it's the governments role to set reliable guidelines for companies (so they can plan their developments, product releases or purchases and can compete on a level playing ground).

It's not Apple's role to decide what port their charging cable is connected to (it's standard USB - not 7V, so strange plug, no weird power adapter). It's not Apple's role to decide the voltage of the wall outlet. It's not Apple's role to decide on the shape of the wall outlet. It's not Apple's role to decide on the mobile phone standard (LTE, 3G or GSM in the past). It's not Apple's role to decide on the radio frequency regulations, on the safety regulations or against misleading advertisement. So why should it be important for Apple to stick to an old port that has become a niche, with the entire world around it embracing a superior USB-C?

Thank you for answering the question. I can agree with you on monopolies, and in principle protecting the environment (though I believe that should be directed at direct threats to the environment such as illegal waste disposal, not telling companies what types of cables they can manufacture). I totally disagree that it's the government's role to set guidelines for companies for how their products charge, sync, or interface with accessories. That's clear overreach and anti free market.

As for your second paragraph, I'm not sure what all those things you list have to do with the topic at hand. Apple isn't trying to change any of those things. They ought to be allowed to use whatever port they'd like on their own hardware. If people don't like it and want to "embrace a superior USB-C" then they have PLENTY of other choices in the market.

 

[usagora]

This what happend in 2009 and what happened 2009 is reason why it will not‘t happen again. Adapters are not an option anymore. The port has to be part of the device. Game over.

I don‘t like this regulation. But it is Apples fault. There was more than enough time for industry to agree to a common standard, but Apple blocked. So the EU had to regulate with the so called Anti Apple law. And there is more to come. The digital markets act (DMA) is about Apple, Google, Amazon and Facebook.

The EU didn't "have" to do anything. They can just butt out and let the free market do its thing. Consumers will vote with their wallet (and they seem to not be too upset with Apple based on their sales!).

 

[shaown]

Well, I live in the EU and I'm glad we'll get new iPhones with USB-C.
If you live in the US, you might not be so lucky - I'm sorry for you.

I'm sorry you will have to test portless iPhones out for the world. I bet they release high speed wireless MagSafe + lightning in the US/rest of world, and wireless MagSafe + portless in EU

 

[hcherry]

1. This is a very narrow view of agency and rights and one which is outside the scope of this conversation but I will just say that many people don't subscribe to this view of what governments should be allowed to do.
2. They have a standard in North America that is unique to their own vehicles and so far seems to only lead to them having their own exclusive charge network and being less convenient to use with the rest of the chargers that exist (and preventing non-tesla vehicles from using the Tesla supercharging network). We have no evidence to suggest that the NA Tesla chargers are superior to the EU ones.

1. Agreed. When folks disagree about the role government should play in our lives, we get deep disagreements about specific policies like this one.

2. Never owned a Tesla so I’m not familiar with the differences across countries. But even in this case, I still want the door to be open for companies to develop alternatives — innovations aren’t guaranteed, but overly-specific rules limit what’s possible. It’s challenging because it’s almost impossible to know if something wasn’t invented or produced b/c of a specific rule/regulation

 

[ackmondual]

Awesome. I am sick of taking multiple cables just to charge my iPhone.

Mac, iPad, Dell Laptop, Nintendo Switch, Samsung Phone all USB-C, easily charged with one cable and then there is the iPhone

For me, I switched from USB-A to USB-C when I updated my phone (LG G4 to Pixel 4A)! However, I'm still tethered to lightning since my 9th gen iPad is on that! If I use my iPod Classic, I'll still need to bring out the 30-pin connector again! In that regard, you make strides in one area, but manage not to in others

 

[BeatCrazy]

If Apple had constantly been improving Lightning transfer data speeds and charging speeds for Lightning-only chargers/cables/ports, creating a standard that, year-after-year, offers higher speeds and higher quality connectors, wires, etc., all-around better than any other cable/port out there, then absolutely I would agree that EU is hurting Apple and likeminded competitors when forcing adhere to one standard.

But Lightning ports on iPhones HAVE NOT IMPROVED since Apple put them in iPhones in 2012.

Apple has improved and innovated several things about smartphones and the various consumer tech you might use together with your iPhone.

But Lightning has not changed or improved in almost 10 years.

Apple didn't even implement it's USB 3.0 Lightning port into iPhones that it created for 2015 iPads Pro.

Where is all this innovation from Apple in regards to charging and transfer speeds that the EU is so definitely about to cripple?

Could it possibly be that Apple is holding onto Lightning for iPhones because of its (mega cash cow) MFi certification program and not because its a better solution for consumers?

Hmm. Let's see. Would a business hold onto old tech that's raking in billions year after year with no consequences legally or financially? Or would it offer consumers the best and least expensive solution (for the consumer) if it had to give up all of these billions? Gee, I don't know. What could be the answer?

With the proliferation of inexpensive and faster wireless charging, along with a multitude of wireless data sharing options, I don't see why the Lightning port needs to "improve"?

I'm trying to remember the last time I actually plugged in my iPhone via cable. Has to have been months.

 

[AndiG]

There’s already an imbedded assumption there that we must move towards 1 standard. And because Apple didn’t either adopt the standard others wanted or didn’t fight to make their approach the main standard, they must now be forced into a choice.

Why?

I’ve seen no answer that doesn’t rely on 1) “I have a personal preference that it be this way” or 2) bureaucrats know better than customers how the technology should develop.

And that makes forcing people and companies into this wrong.

The EU made it very clear. Reduction of electronic waste. Electronic devices shouldn‘t include a charger. Interoperability and Usability - just to name a few. And the EU approached the industry. It did so in 2009 but Apple circumvented this with an adapter. So the EU asked the industry again for a common standard. It failed - JUST because of Apple. So in a last and final move an Anti Apple law will be released.
Apple is just a company, a big one for sure, but the EU is bigger. The EU regulated Microsoft and Google and it will regulate Apple, too.