EU Orders Google to Give Rival AI Apps the Same Android Access as Gemini

[I7guy]

This might not be a good precedent, as Apple actively advertised Apple Intelligence features, building up expectations and thus facilitating extra sales of their new hardware, and failed to deliver. That is, nobody could have access to the features advertised, which amounts to false advertising.

Google, on the contrary, has a working service (Gemini) and, if the EC (the third party) force them to open it up and Google say, “Sorry, we just cannot!”, how is this Google’s fault?

But once again, this Apple + Google vs the EC situation should be resolved quite soon, I suppose.

All well and good, except that in the advertising there is a disclaimer that says something to the effect of: “varies by region”.

 

[BaldiMac]

My data is not Apple’s to decide about.

1. You're free to move your data to other platforms.
2. It's quite literally the job of the OS to manage and protect your data.

 

[AL2TEACH]

I guess, I must be missing something and that would be easy for me to do 🙂 So excuse my ignorance with this matter and be gentle lol.
Is the EU just saying access to the platform?
Is it still up to the user to use /to chose the AI app they want to use?
Again, be gentle and excuse my ignorance with this issue.

 

[surferfb]

That’s the thing, it isn’t automatically harmful is it, its just potentially harmful, and the user is the one that chooses to give access to their data away you know?

Admin access isn’t automatically harmful either, but there’s a reason we don’t hand it to arbitrary apps, and when we do grant it it’s scoped and short-lived.

What’s being given here is the equivalent of system-wide admin access, until revoked, to almost all data on the phone, to any app that can get a user to click “set xyz agent as my default AI”. Oh, and Apple isn’t allowed to require the AI tool handle the data securely, prohibit the app from using the data for other purposes, or even to tell the user it’s dangerous and that the tool doesn’t handle the data as privately as Siri does.

I would not use anything like Grok or honestly anything other than Siri AI myself, and I suspect 99% won’t, but they have the right to if they want to on their device.

If 99% won’t use it, mandating third party options delivers near-zero consumer benefit while adding a massive security and privacy risk to 100% of devices.

This is no different to how apps work on macOS, there they can request access to the data of other apps, so why shouldn’t this be possible on iOS?

Understand we’re never going to agree on this, but I think there is a significant difference between an app asking for access to another app’s data and a system-wide AI agent that has access to literally every piece of data on the device, including encrypted messages and health data, and can upload that data to the cloud with no guarantee that it is kept private. I don’t think Apple should be forced to facilitate that even if a small minority of consumers think they want it.

 

[MilaM]

China got it right. They just banned all foreign companies from using non-Chinese models. Maybe other countries should do the same to give local talent a chance to compete. Radical but effective.

 

[Padre_Pio]

Tim Cook was not a fool

 

[Padre_Pio]

To use a poker analogy:

Google called.
Apple folded.

Apple decided not to play is the better analogy.

 

[Padre_Pio]

Competition is not hobbling the swift horse so all the other horses can keep up.

If phone manufacturers are forced to allow equal access, then they all just become dumb bricks.

Just typical lowest common denominator thinking, a complete race to the bottom.

Propagandists have made people think this is enticing by appealing to emotional cues likes "fairness" and redefining words like "competition" and it actually worked.

We're doomed.

 

[derek4484]

I literally cannot stand this. Same thing they did to Apple. Third party apps do not deserve or have a right to the same OS level items. Apple and Google have invested billions and billions in developing software and hardware. Now these third party apps want to come along and get rich piggybacking off of Google and Apple's investment and they dont want to have to pay for that access. It's ridiculous. Software socialism.

 

[derek4484]

The EU is doing its job by keeping a company from forcing a monopoly, and apparently, most people on this sub have an issue with that. It is crazy how few people actually see the point of this requirement.

Gosh, you couldnt be further from the truth. The EU/EC doesn't care one bit about any of that. They are simply forcing American tech companies to open up their products so European tech companies have a chance at equal access without having to pay one cent for the development and support of the original platform. They want European tech companies to be able to profit off of American tech companies products without contributing anything to them.

 

[derek4484]

What if both Apple and Android pulled out of the EU. Let everyone there use Nokia flip phones that Brussels can regulate.

I would seriously love to see this. Microsoft, Apple, Google just abandon the EU and their software socialism policies. I wonder if the EU/EC would fold and give in and allow companies who spend billions inventing and creating a product to prosper. The EU/EC just wants their tech companies to be able to prosper by using the Apple/Google/MS platform without having to pay to support the platform.

 

[derek4484]

Oh, I would like sooo much going back to a computer, musu.bi notebook, Conid fountain pen and a disk-dial-landline-phone. Those where the days.


One hit on a button in the Netherlands-Europe (just a tiny 18mln peeps country) and not a single decent chip is made anywhere world wide. They control 100% of all the faster chips naar world wide. ASML.
Thee are 100’s of companies needed and several of them are a chokehold, all over the world. There is no great America that has everything. Without TSMC, without Foxconn, without… no phone, iPad, or any better Android phone is being produced.


And you can argue all you want, but living in the EU gives you a better health, better accessible health care, better education on average, better protection from harmful food additives, better consumer rights and better privacy rights then anywhere in the world.
And all of that with several countries that just joint the bloc. That have been long under Sovjet control, that are redefining themselves, that are coming from economic difficult histories.

Yelp all you want, but when was the last time the US successfully brought a country to a democratic regime change or improved the democratic rule in a country? Gave people in other countries (or for the sake of it, in the US?!?) a better government, improved health of those citizens?
Perhaps the Second World War, and that was with Australians, Canadian, British and several others.
The US has been spitting their “friends“ a lot in the face, lately. And if the US don’t want to align with the EU or other countries, fine, that’s your choice to make. But don’t complain about the choices we make and don’t complain when the EU builds better relations with China, forges strong bonds with Canada, UK, Australia and many Asian countries that are much more reliable then the US has been.
Or would you like to discuss the behaviour of the utterly unreliable partner the US had been just in the last year? From import taxes that changed daily to the president that would never start a war but still is dropping a lot of bombs on Iran?

/r

How about you stop buying any products from an American company. See how your life is. How about your European countries fund 100% of your own national defense. You want to criticize America, while you go to sleep every night beneath the blanket of freedom that the American military provides for you. America could have better healthcare if we weren't spending over a $1T per year defending the free world while your pitiful and antiquated European militaries have become useless due to no funding.

 

[derek4484]

But with E.U. regulations, you get a level playing field. The rules are equal to all. Which removes barriers for competition. Which companies like Apple don’t want, because they want to introduce walled gardens, because that is in THEIR interests.

And these EU rules just opens things up for competition, which ironisk VERY VERY AMERICAN.

What you call a level playing field is a situation where its not worth any investment. That's why there are few, if any, successful European tech companies. Why invest Billions of $$$ building a phone and an great operating system, if you then have to then turn around and provide free access to any competitor?! Let the competition invest their own Billions and create their own product if they want deepest access to the OS. It's really not a fair playing field, when there is no incentive to actually even create anything of value, because you basically have to give all your freeloading competition equal access to your intellectual property for free. That is why there are no great European tech companies.

 

[Abazigal]

What if both Apple and Android pulled out of the EU. Let everyone there use Nokia flip phones that Brussels can regulate.

I assume that any such move would need to be closely coordinated between Apple and Google. It's like that game of dare where you and your friend agree to jump off a ledge, but then he chickens out at the last minute. Apple doesn't want to cede the market to Android OEMs and neither would Google cede the market to Apple, and this is likely what the EU commission is banking on.

 

[iToph]

This is quite hyperbolic.
Nothing is going to lead anyone back to "horses & carriages" again.

C'mon. 🤔

Oh yes they do.

 

[Grey Area]

How about you stop buying any products from an American company. See how your life is. How about your European countries fund 100% of your own national defense. You want to criticize America, while you go to sleep every night beneath the blanket of freedom that the American military provides for you. America could have better healthcare if we weren't spending over a $1T per year defending the free world while your pitiful and antiquated European militaries have become useless due to no funding.

Agreed about the previous poster's rant, but here we are now. Indeed, hard to avoid buying complex products involving American companies, just as it is hard to avoid European, Japanese, Chinese companies. Supply chains are global, nothing complex is made in one place, and very little in the USA.

As for the rest, spare us the US-nationalist propaganda. The USA is not a trustworthy ally any more, some of its activities are outright hostile (Greenland). Europe is well aware that the USA probably would not help if push came to shove. Frankly, given how the Iran war is going, the USA may not have the means anyway. Its military capabilities were not as overrated as Russia's, but overrated they were, and now depleted in many areas. In that sense Europe may already be funding 100% of its national defence, when nothing can be expected from the USA. There is little reason for the free world to be grateful to the American military - the one from the distant past maybe, but not the more recent decades. Today's US military mainly serves the political and financial interests of the US ruling elite. You do not have good healthcare because you are shovelling that money into the pockets of your oligarchs.

 

[Ad47uk]

If I decide to download an AI app, sign in/up, accept conditions, why the f*ck does Apple have determine for me if what I’m doing is safe or otherwise.

It is not about downloading AI apps, it is allowing those AI apps to have access to what Apple own AI will have acess to on the phone or computer.
You can download load any AI app you want, but it can't control your phone or computer, like Apple Ai can.

 

[Ad47uk]

I guess, I must be missing something and that would be easy for me to do 🙂 So excuse my ignorance with this matter and be gentle lol.
Is the EU just saying access to the platform?
Is it still up to the user to use /to chose the AI app they want to use?
Again, be gentle and excuse my ignorance with this issue.

From what I can work out, you can use what ever AI app you want, it is just not integrated into the phone or computer.

 

[obviouslogic]

ee and open” market is no longer free or open.

I'm not sure "we should keep a big-tech monopoly because customers are stupid" should count as a valid argument in this discussion. If there were no law demonopolizing the PC/Mac browser market, 95% of users would still be using Internet Explorer. Users should have a say in who gets access to their data.

Microsoft lost the browser market, when they lost the mobile market. When mobile became the dominant computing platform, desktop only browsers (IE) lost their relevance.

It was Apple that created a fork of KHTML to create WebKit, and ported it to the iPhone that basically signed the death knell for IE. Google then created a fork of WebKit to create Chrome, which just about all modern browser are based off of including IE.

 

[turbineseaplane]

There is a clear difference between choosing to give a company specific data on my choosing and giving them realtime access to everything that I store and do on my device. If you can't acknowledge that, then I feel you're being disingenuous here.

"I should be able to do whatever I want" led to a trillion dollar malware industry. I prefer an OS that's learned from those mistakes.

Agree to disagree on this.
I’m out of pocket for the next few days but will try to circle back on this and chat more in the future when I have time.

I never said “I should be able to do whatever I want”.
I said “My data is not Apple’s to decide about.”

I get the impression we just disagree that I think it’s OK if Apple lets me get into trouble if I want to, with my own data, after consenting. As @surferfb knows about me, I’ve long wanted multiple modes of operation built into iOS to handle this.

The more and more popular iPhones and iOS become the more important I think different usage needs or desires become.

Anyhow. Haven’t disappeared just totally swamped this weekend ✌️

 

[I7guy]

Agree to disagree on this.
I’m out of pocket for the next few days but will try to circle back on this and chat more in the future when I have time.

I never said “I should be able to do whatever I want”.
I said “My data is not Apple’s to decide about.”

I get the impression we just disagree that I think it’s OK if Apple lets me get into trouble if I want to, with my own data, after consenting. As @surferfb knows about me, I’ve long wanted multiple modes of operation built into iOS to handle this.

The more and more popular iPhones and iOS become the more important I think different usage needs or desires become.

Anyhow. Haven’t disappeared just totally swamped this weekend ✌️

When you signed up for an Apple ID I believe there is implied consent for Apple handling your data according to their policies. So it is apples discretion in handling your data.

 

[WinstonSmyth]

Frankly, given how the Iran war is going, the USA may not have the means anyway. Its military capabilities were not as overrated as Russia's, but overrated they were, and now depleted in many areas. In that sense Europe may already be funding 100% of its national defence, when nothing can be expected from the USA. There is little reason for the free world to be grateful to the American military - the one from the distant past maybe, but not the more recent decades. Today's US military mainly serves the political and financial interests of the US ruling elite. You do not have good healthcare because you are shovelling that money into the pockets of your oligarchs.

Yes, the way that Iran has sunk the entire US Navy, wiped out the US Air Force, and shot down pretty much every Tomahawk missile has proven the US military is way over rated.

 

[MilaM]

I assume that any such move would need to be closely coordinated between Apple and Google. It's like that game of dare where you and your friend agree to jump off a ledge, but then he chickens out at the last minute. Apple doesn't want to cede the market to Android OEMs and neither would Google cede the market to Apple, and this is likely what the EU commission is banking on.

It not only that. Governments around the world would notice such a move and ask very uncomfortable questions. It would be bad for business, at least in the long term.

 

[lotones]

China got it right. They just banned all foreign companies from using non-Chinese models. Maybe other countries should do the same to give local talent a chance to compete. Radical but effective.

China did that so they could tightly surveil, control, and crack down if necessary on their citizens. I'd rather keep what civil rights and freedom we have left.

 

[tonmischa]

I'd rather keep what civil rights and freedom we have left.

Don't worry. As long as you are a rich white man, you have a plethora of civil rights and freedom left. Even when you are on the "wrong" side of the Atlantic.