EU Orders Google to Give Rival AI Apps the Same Android Access as Gemini

[Xiao_Xi]

Who is going to verify these products ?

There are several companies and organizations that certify products. I don't see why a similar approach wouldn't work in this case.

 

[MilaM]

Apple and Google will find a DMA compliant way to offer AI assistants in the EU. There is too much money on the line. In fact the whole US economy depends on it at this point. Apple and Google withdrawing all AI products from the EU would send a terrible signal to investors and send markets in a downward spiral. I don't think they want to risk that.

 

[GMShadow]

To the Dutch guy trying to waive around ASML like a weapon:

ASML did not invent EUV. It was licensed to them by American government labs like Lawrence Livermore.

A lot of good chips were also made before EUV.

American patience with Europe is running thin, and America has the ability to do something about that. I would suggest Europe learn its place and gets in line very quickly.

 

[MilaM]

American patience with Europe is running thin, and America has the ability to do something about that. I would suggest Europe learn its place and gets in line very quickly.

Thanks to this attitude working closer with China suddenly sounds like a good idea. Most hardware that runs US service businesses comes from there anyway.

 

[East India Company]

EU has jumped the shark on these. And that’s saying a lot. No wonder Apple kept Siri AI out of the EU. There is no universe where Apple lets “Hey Siri” activate Grok. None. It’s absurd the EU thinks that’s an acceptable requirement.

Apple folded in China and it will bend over everywhere where it can make some money. They will all fold and the consumer will win.

 

[surferfb]

Apple folded in China and it will bend over everywhere where it can make some money. They will all fold and the consumer will win.

Disagree; and if the EU wins on this one consumers lose.

 

[Mousse]

This would be an incentive for Google to kill Gemini on android.😉 Dreaming the impossible dream.😕

 

[Grey Area]

Simply untrue.

Internet Explorer's death spiral had started way before EU mandated Microsoft to display the browser choice screen in early 2010. The choice screen also did not affect the market share trajectories in any way.

To be fair: While the impact of the browser choice mandate itself was questionable, it was one result of a decade of lawsuits of EU vs Microsoft. These legal proceedings got a lot of public attention - at least here in the EU - and really drove home the various anti-competitive tactics of Microsoft. Mainstream media was full of articles on what MS did not want us to do and how we could fight back right now, before a verdict. The company lost a lot of prestige in those years, and I dare say the rapid rise of Firefox in the EU (equal to IE by 2010) was mainly due to this, rather than technical merits. As such I so believe the EU had a significant role in the fall of IE, but none that is easily represented in a single chart.

 

[RickDEGH]

If I decide to download an AI app, sign in/up, accept conditions, why the f*ck does Apple have determine for me if what I’m doing is safe or otherwise.

 

[macMD]

The EU can kick rocks.

If the EU companies had bothered to actually innovate anything to compete they would have a point.

Android and IOS have defaults but just like windows you don’t have to use them. You have free will to install and choose others.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

The EU bureaucracy trusts regulations about privacy to be more effective at ensuring privacy than actual technical controls. They would prefer a system with no technical controls that gave equal access to all competitors and then fine offenders. As someone who does not live in the EU, I prefer technical controls as reactionary fines are asinine because once your personal data is exploited it is too late to do anything about it.

 

[Janschi]

Yes: thanks USB-C. Thanks not paying extra when calling from Germany to Spain or using internet on my phone. Privacy laws are a lot stricter. But in the USA, companies are allowed to bulldozer their citizens,

Calling from Germany with a German provider to Spain is NOT free and costs extra. So please use other examples. There is also no privacy with the new chat control Brussels pushed onto us. Don't be so delusional. The EU also wants to ban VPNs.

 

[Janschi]

Google and Apple should both pull out of the EU.

F*ck em, they can have their weird bizarre Linux phones. Go use a Jolla phone and leave the first world alone with our iOS and Android products.

If a European can't innovate and has to buy an American product, they should accept that we built it a certain way. If they don't like it -- build one themselves.

I was able to use a one of those weird phone for two weeks to write a review about it. I think it was called Volla. It was a very terrible experience. I soft-bricked the device also multiple times switching from Ubuntu to their ****** OS and vice versa, because the company didnt provide the right files. It's was a typical European tech experience.

 

[Janschi]

Apple folded in China and it will bend over everywhere where it can make some money. They will all fold and the consumer will win.

How does the European consumer win with not having access to features?

 

[koil]

How do consumers make an accurate assessment as to who to give their data to?

That’s obviously hard, but it isn’t yours or Apples problem once I leave that safe space, its mine. If I choose to give my data to a ****** AI company and then it subsequently leaks or gets sold, then that’s on me, but as the owner of the device I alone should have that choice!

 

[LFO8]

American patience with Europe is running thin, and America has the ability to do something about that. I would suggest Europe learn its place and gets in line very quickly.

I’m gonna call this ‘Toxic Americanism’

 

[koil]

I just fundamentally disagree that Apple/Google should be forced to enable functionality that they think is (and is) harmful for their customers and has a high likelihood of blowing back on Apple/Google when it inevitably does cause harm.

We’re talking about letting a third party have access to literally everything on the phone. Health data, encrypted messages, photos, location, phone calls, emails, etc. And the fact of the matter is that most consumers do not understand and aren’t going to understand that setting Grok as the default AI means that Grok gets to upload all that data to the cloud and do who knows what with it. And the EU won’t even let Apple warn users that’s the case because “it’s not neutral” to say Apple’s implementation is private and Grok’s isn’t, even if that is undeniably true.

Then, when users start getting targeted ads based off of their end-to-end encrypted Messages, they’re not going to think “Grok is selling my data” - they’re going to think “Apple lied about iOS keeping my data private.”

Apple even outlined a way to move forward, one that would cost them more than all other DMA compliance to date combined, and the EU rejected it out of hand.

The problem with the DMA is that it assumes all gatekeepers are bad actors, all developers are good actors, and all users understand technology and the privacy tradeoffs. I think all three of those assumptions are laughably wrong.

That’s the thing, it isn’t automatically harmful is it, its just potentially harmful, and the user is the one that chooses to give access to their data away you know?

I would not use anything like Grok or honestly anything other than Siri AI myself, and I suspect 99% won’t, but they have the right to if they want to on their device.

This is no different to how apps work on macOS, there they can request access to the data of other apps, so why shouldn’t this be possible on iOS?

 

[turbineseaplane]

If I decide to download an AI app, sign in/up, accept conditions, why the f*ck does Apple have determine for me if what I’m doing is safe or otherwise.

There’s no good reason for it and it’s so bizarre to see my fellow freedom loving Americans support it.

 

[BaldiMac]

There’s no good reason for it and it’s so bizarre to see my fellow freedom loving Americans support it.

Sure there is. The good reason is that I paid them to do it. You're certainly not naive enough companies won't abuse the system to get consumers to agree to stuff that they don't understand.

Rather than forcing Apple to allow privacy abusing companies access to our data, I'd rather the government force the privacy abusing companies to keep our data on our devices.

 

[I7guy]

I know what you mean and after today i am a bit closer to your position, but I am still kind of a "wishful thinker":

Some inventions would not have happened if not for regulations forcing them.
Examples include:
- Catalytic converters (US Clean Air Act of 1970),
- General Motors EV1, a precursor for modern EVs (California Zero-Emission Vehicle mandate in 1990),
- Safety Glass (Federal Employers Liability Act of 1908)

So it will be exciting to see if Apple/Google will come up with something or if the missing AI feature will get actual backlash from the EU customers.
EDIT: Or if the EU will cave just like they did with the Battery Removal Requirement for AirPods.

The examples are necessary for the common good. To:
- not pollute the planet, which has a by product that we all live healthier lives
- EVs, the first one was Porsche at the turn of the century, but not practical. Still it ties into number 1. As does other propulsion tech such as hydrogen.
- Safety glass an invention useful for the common good to protect people

These regs forcing companies to open up their property are not for the common good. People will still live a healthy life with or without a 3rd party store or having your digital assistant tie into any third party AI due to overregulation.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Sure there is. The good reason is that I paid them to do it. You're certainly not naive enough companies won't abuse the system to get consumers to agree to stuff that they don't understand.

Rather than forcing Apple to allow privacy abusing companies access to our data, I'd rather the government force the privacy abusing companies to keep our data on our devices.

I’m just not really sure what protection you are actually talking about.

Is there a concrete example you have in mind?

I mean, Apple allows us correctly to use a whole bunch of completely unsavory services that do all kinds of things we don’t even know about with our data.

Apple literally can’t stop a whole bunch of that as it doesn’t happen on their service. It just happens to be through an app that they distribute because they forced themselves in the middle.

A lot of the stuff they have no choice but to allow because the leverage of the other companies is massive.

If we are talking about malware and things, I guess I’m with you and they should certainly be doing the best they can on that..

But what about things like some random DNA app or something?

Do you really want them deciding for you whether you can even do that or not through the app?

Are they supposed to go police the service on their own to see what happens and follow up?

Honestly, some of you guys just sound like you’re asking for Apple to protect you from the world and it just doesn’t work like that and can’t.

 

[turbineseaplane]

So much of what people seem to hope and want Apple to do is way beyond the purview of what they should be concerned about.

 

[turbineseaplane]

For me, Apple needs to enforce whatever rules they have the best they can and go out of their way to allow users to decide how their experience and their data goes and is used.

My data is not Apple’s to decide about.

I can’t even believe that’s a controversial statement.

 

[BaldiMac]

I’m just not really sure what protection you are actually talking about.

Is there a concrete example you have in mind?

I mean, Apple allows us correctly to use a whole bunch of completely unsavory services that do all kinds of things we don’t even know about with our data.

Apple literally can’t stop a whole bunch of that as it doesn’t happen on their service. It just happens to be through an app that they distribute because they forced themselves in the middle.

A lot of the stuff they have no choice but to allow because the leverage of the other companies is massive.

If we are talking about malware and things, I guess I’m with you and they should certainly be doing the best they can on that..

But what about things like some random DNA app or something?

Do you really want them deciding for you whether you can even do that or not through the app?

Are they supposed to go police the service on their own to see what happens and follow up?

Honestly, some of you guys just sound like you’re asking for Apple to protect you from the world and it just doesn’t work like that and can’t.

There is a clear difference between choosing to give a company specific data on my choosing and giving them realtime access to everything that I store and do on my device. If you can't acknowledge that, then I feel you're being disingenuous here.

"I should be able to do whatever I want" led to a trillion dollar malware industry. I prefer an OS that's learned from those mistakes.

 

[lotones]

The European Commission claims Apple was "unable to develop interoperability solutions that meet essential EU privacy and security standards" and instead asked for a blanket exemption from the interoperability requirements, which the EC did not grant.

I find this statement disingenuous. Apparently the EU's "interoperability solutions" supersede whatever their "privacy and security standards" are. You can't demand every shady developer have equal access to core OS functions and claim to have any privacy and security standards. 😂