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I have gotten malware on my windows system as recent as a few months ago - Video Copilot plugins were infected. Legit site and legit purchase and have used their stuff for years. It was unfortunate I had to reinstall their plugins after a Windows install leading to malware.

So I really don’t think people should look at desktop operating systems with a “this is fine” attitude. Phones will get targeted more for better metadata and location tracking.

I said it before, I’ll say it again. I think macos is not as secure as people here believe, and if you truly believe it’s very secure you are buying into marketing. Apple said so themselves in court. Windows is far more secure by being attacked more which means it got fixed more.
If risking getting hit by a car means I get to go outside whenever I want to then I take that risk.
 
While I am not a fan of Apple's nanny bullying, fake restrictions for its private agenda, distaste for small developers, and "my way or the high way" attitude, this is overreach.

No doubt overreach cause by Apple's attitude and policies, but overreach none-the-less. I hope Apple sees the handwriting on the wall and makes some changes, but in the end I hope this fails. It is never good to let the government run anything.
No, because in the end consumers will lose. Spyware apps posing as innocent apps, could be doing nefarious things under the covers with unrestricted access.
 
Apple needs to step up its advertising on this topic and explain the benefits of a controlled platform and marketplace.

Apple is losing the lobby wars in the halls of legislatures everywhere, it needs to appeal directly to its customers (ads, and forms that make it easy to identify one’s Rep, fill in and send) and ask them to dissuade their representatives from taking these actions.
If people cared about security and privacy there would not be 1 social media left...

So I don't think advertizing how safe / privacy oriented would make a difference, people are willing to give all the info and access for a free gem or something on FarmVille / candycrash (whatever is the new coll thing.)
 
No, because in the end consumers will lose. Spyware apps posing as innocent apps, could be doing nefarious things under the covers with unrestricted access.
EU isn't doing this for consumers. They were lobbied by billion/trillion dollar software developers and it also provides cover for breaking privacy/security on mobile. That's the reason the EU refuses to treat privacy/security as being a form of market competition.
 
There's nothing any of you can do about this so why not be optimistic about it?

?Que sera, seraAaAaAaA ... whatever will be, will beEeEeE....?
 
I can't imagine why. Nothing about what I suggested above is illegal.

There's nothing wrong with Apple using the tools available to them to inform their customers why they are doing something that the company would not choose to do, that they know their customers will be inconvenienced by.
It’s the same “here’s the grand and totally realistic plan to do something totally unfathomable to get their way.”

Like, you want Apple to lie and say they can’t legally operate given these potential regulations and then threaten to shut down completely in the EU, affecting hundreds of millions of people and business?

Maybe instead of threatening to close shop, they can say “here’s why we can’t give you access to *feature x*” and then see if their argument holds up like it has for their arguments against sideloading.

Honestly, I don’t think any of this would be an issue if Apple allowed sideloading. A small minority of people wanted sideloading enough to get Apple’s attention, and now we have a bunch of old geezers trying to regulate tech. “We want full access to NFC” doesn’t have the same ring as “I just want to download a utility app or emulator like I can on any other major platform.”
 
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It’s the same “here’s the grand and totally realistic plan to do something totally unfathomable to get their way.”

Like, you want Apple to lie and say they can’t legally operate given these potential regulations and then threaten to shut down completely in the EU, affecting hundreds of millions of people and business?

Maybe instead of threatening to close shop, they can say “here’s why we can’t give you access to *feature x*” and then see if their argument holds up like it has for their arguments against sideloading.

Honestly, I don’t think any of this would be an issue if Apple allowed sideloading. A small minority of people wanted sideloading enough to get Apple’s attention, and now we have a bunch of old geezers trying to regulate tech. “We want full access to NFC” doesn’t have the same ring as “I just want to download a utility app or emulator like I can on any other major platform.”
Nothing I said was a lie. The EU wants to force Apple to operate in a way that infringes upon the security-centric and privacy-conscious design of their product. The EU is basically saying, "make your product less secure, even though we don't know jack about security; or leave."

Apple is completely in the right to call out the ignorance and poor foresight of the EU's proposal, and suggest that the EU's effectively forcing Apple to choose between weakening the security and privacy protections it provides its customers or leaving the market altogether. The EU is not the good guy here, and Apple has every right to defend itself against stupidity and malice.

If anything, Apple has a responsibility and moral duty to inform the EU's citizens that their government is inept and trying to weaken their own security and privacy protections.
 
If this passes, Apple should just send an email and notification to every customer in the EU saying something to the effect of, “due to your government’s heavy-handed overreach, they will be blocking Apple from providing safe and secure services, like our App Store. As a result, we can no longer legally offer these services in the EU and will cease operations within 30 days.”

Just the threat of millions of devices losing iMessage, FaceTime, and the App Store framed properly will get the public on their side. I guarantee it’d turn this whole thing around within 48 hours.
If what's being reported is accurate, I think the EU are massively overreaching, and if I was an Apple lobbyist I'd be considering sending such an email to customers well in advance of it ever becoming law for exactly the same reasons you outline.

However, the other side will pitch it as "guaranteeing interoperability between systems" and "enabling small developers to take on the giants" and, undoubtedly "security, privacy and protection of children will be enhanced"

Unfortunately it won't be as no-brainer as you or I might think/hope. In the UK (outside the EU now) our equivalent Act is likely to go through Parliament on the strength of right-ish leaning newspapers such as the Daily Mail playing the "won't somebody think of the children" and "only the crims need encryption" cards. ?‍♂️

The issues that we on this forum (technically aware and interested) recognise as serious or critical are simply not even on the radar of most people. T'was ever thus -

‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’
- Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947
 
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Nothing I said was a lie. The EU wants to force Apple to operate in a way that infringes upon the security-centric and privacy-conscious design of their product. The EU is basically saying, "make your product less secure, even though we don't know jack about security; or leave."

Apple is completely in the right to call out the ignorance and poor foresight of the EU's proposal, and suggest that the EU's effectively forcing Apple to choose between weakening the security and privacy protections it provides its customers or leaving the market altogether. The EU is not the good guy here, and Apple has every right to defend itself against stupidity and malice.

If anything, Apple has a responsibility and moral duty to inform the EU's citizens that their government is inept and trying to weaken their own security and privacy protections.
You sound like Elon Musk lol.
 
This makes no sense to me. iOS is about 28% of the smartphone market. Android is roughly the remaining 72%. if anything, Android should be the one more impacted by this legislation

iOS is intellectual property owned, developed, and maintained by Apple. Every consumer has a choice which smartphone to purchase, and candidly most are choosing Android.

There's a reason the minority purchase Apple, and Apple has benefited greatly. Success is not illegal when done in open market places with options.
 
I've just rescued my elderly neighbour from a life of misery by migrating his wretched Android phone to an iPhone. God only knows how he managed to install so much crud on that phone but it was basically unusable, with all manner of popups (with dubious grammatical errors) and warnings getting in the way. OK, he's an old bloke on his own, he probably visits dodgy websites, but it's a crying shame that his phone let him turn his device into a useless piece of junk.

I told him that kind of nonsense won't happen to his new iPhone.

But now I'm not so sure...
 
Is the eu just patently dumb? Can’t push both this and privacy plus consumer protection. All of it is intertwined and you can’t open one up and restrict the other they are at odds.
 
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Ironically it wouldn't be so bad if there were more european phone manufacturers. Phone designs have become rather staid since american companies took over. Before that we had all sorts of ingenius designs from Nokia. Might be nice to get some european creativity back in phone designs vs american conservatism.
Oh yeah. Nokia really pushed the envelope. That is why they are irrelevant today like BlackBerry. They did not innovate
 
Yeah, with just a laptop or MacBook, free software, and an OBD-II-to-USB-C cable. :)
Spoken like a person that's never done it. You are extremely limited in what data you can read, and write without access to the full diagnostic tool provided by the manufacturer.

If risking getting hit by a car means I get to go outside whenever I want to then I take that risk.
If people only took that view with these stupid masks...


On the bright side if this goes through I can't wait until the EU forces these same rules and regulations to the PlayStation and XBox stores!
 
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