EU Plans to Hit Apple With Antitrust Charges Over Apple Pay

[Luke MacWalker]

Can you use your iPhone to enter an amusement park (without a stupid last decade barcode screen shots) with contactless ticket, without even opening the phone,

Yes: Disney World Launches MagicBand for iPhone and Apple Watch With Animations and Express Mode Support
But it was not available on Android at that time (is it now?)

or can you buy a train / airline ticket and use then NFC to access the train /airline?

Yes:
Apple Pay With Express Transit Mode Now Available for San Francisco Bay Area's Clipper Card
Apple Pay and Express Transit Mode Now Support PASMO Transit Cards in Japan
Apple Pay With Express Transit Mode Now Available in Chicago
Apple Pay's Express Transit Feature Now Supported in 275 Chinese Cities
New York Subway Completes Rollout of Apple Pay Support
Apple Reportedly Reached Agreement to Support Paris Metro Navigo Cards in Wallet
Metrolinx Piloting Apple Pay on Toronto's UP Express, Working to Expand to TTC
Apple Pay With Express Transit Mode Goes Live for D.C. Metro Riders
Hong Kong's Octopus Card Now Supports Apple Pay
LA Metro's TAP Card Now Supports Apple Pay With Express Transit Mode
etc.

For planes, I don't remember reading anything about it. But I don't remember an airport with NFC tickets either (only QR codes)…

No, because Apple is stiffling competition and preventents companies to be innovative.

In this case, competition, maybe, but I've a hard time imagining what kind of virtuous competition there will be if it is open to every banks. I didn't see a lot of competition with debit cards in France for example. Not even between the banks for other services for that matter, and they have been already criticised many times for that.
Stifling innovation… in this case, I am not sure either. The NFC is accessible to apps except for payment-related applications:
Core NFC | Apple Developer Documentation

Can you charge a 30 -day metrocard to your iPhone? You can for Android, but not for iPhone.

I suppose it all depends where you live…

For instance, a French operator SNCF has this mentioned on their web site: ”if you are a customer with an NFC-compatible Android smartphone, you must install the “Ticket sans contact” (contactless ticket) extension offered by our partner Wizway Solutions.”

This is not available for an iPhone because Apple is protecting their Apple Pay revenues.

This page also indicates that it is not available either for Android phones (except Samsung) that don't use the Orange (or its low cost brand Sosh) network.

Other example: https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-sc...L8TE5PaReLk-1633535149-0-gqNtZGzNAmWjcnBszQel

”You can now load ScotRail Smart tickets onto ScotRail and SPT Subway Smartcards using an NFC-enabled Android phone and the latest version of the ScotRail app.”

It works in Paris: Île-de-France Mobilités
This app allows to charge a Navigo Pass from the iPhone via NFC like ScotRail Smart tickets.

APPLE IS STIFLING COMPETITION! Hence, they are under investigation.

I think it shows that at least in this case, Apple is not stifling anything for consumers (banks may disagree, but the point here is to find and do what is good for consumers).
It looks like all what you claim is not possible on the iPhone is in fact possible. All is not always available but it is not because of Apple but because of the service providers, as demonstrated by others that offer exactly the same services on the iPhone.

 

[Luke MacWalker]

- If consumers don’t like Apple’s actions, they’re free to vote with their wallet. If citizens don’t like the EU’s actions, they’re free to vote come election time.

I see you are an optimist! ?

 

[Zarniwoop]

Yeah, thank god the UK left a humongous economic union right on it's doorstep, the rules and regulations of which it still has to obey, while it has no longer a say in how they will come about.... That's really 5head...

But hey, they have a leader who combs his hair with a balloon. I am sure he know what he’s doing.

 

[827538]

How on earth is this an antitrust case?

Apple Pay does not dominate the market, abuse its position, or prevents me from using alternatives. No part of this is antitrust other than it provides a secure and easy to use service. I'm almost certain Apple does not prevent providers using their own payment systems on iPhone.

Thank god my country left the EU. For all the UK's flaws, at least I can actually vote to remove the people running it unlike the EU President or Commission.

 

[LV426]

You could always move to the US and get exploited by companies all you want? Why pay $70 in Europe for an epipen, when you can pay $700 in the US!

Or $0 in the UK, where we have this thing called the National Health Service!

 

[justperry]

Maybe you can explain your rules for when a company develops a product then it becomes a commodity that the company has no control over. Should Microsoft be required to allow windows 11 to run on macs, should Xbox be required to have Apple Pay as a payment method, should visa be required to allow Mastercard payments on their cards? Keep free enterprise free and allowed to compete. No one is harmed by Apple Pay being the sole provider FOR the NFC chip, you can still use whatever credit card you choose. Not seeing it.
I look forward to your enlightening response

The answer was already in my post, please read it again.

 

[LV426]

If citizens don’t like the EU’s actions, they’re free to vote come election time.

I don't want to pick on the EU specifically here, but my vote [in the UK] has never ever once put my person of choice into parliament... and I've voted in many elections. Also, we rarely get to vote on single-issue matters, like antitrust law.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Whow 16 mounts to “investigate” this. Everybody knows NFC is closed on a iPhone, why did it take her so long?

Our EU system is a money pit with stupid rules.

Well, you know, if you asked me to investigate this, I’m sure it’d take at LEAST as long… if not longer. Investigation is lucrative.

Sorry, that should be difficult.

It should be “Investigation is VERY lucrative”… no wait, again I meant to say VERY moneyinmypockets.

Nevermind.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Yes: Disney World Launches MagicBand for iPhone and Apple Watch With Animations and Express Mode Support
But it was not available on Android at that time (is it now?)


Yes:
Apple Pay With Express Transit Mode Now Available for San Francisco Bay Area's Clipper Card
Apple Pay and Express Transit Mode Now Support PASMO Transit Cards in Japan
Apple Pay With Express Transit Mode Now Available in Chicago
Apple Pay's Express Transit Feature Now Supported in 275 Chinese Cities
New York Subway Completes Rollout of Apple Pay Support
Apple Reportedly Reached Agreement to Support Paris Metro Navigo Cards in Wallet
Metrolinx Piloting Apple Pay on Toronto's UP Express, Working to Expand to TTC
Apple Pay With Express Transit Mode Goes Live for D.C. Metro Riders
Hong Kong's Octopus Card Now Supports Apple Pay
LA Metro's TAP Card Now Supports Apple Pay With Express Transit Mode
etc.

For planes, I don't remember reading anything about it. But I don't remember an airport with NFC tickets either (only QR codes)…



In this case, competition, maybe, but I've a hard time imagining what kind of virtuous competition there will be if it is open to every banks. I didn't see a lot of competition with debit cards in France for example. Not even between the banks for other services for that matter, and they have been already criticised many times for that.
Stifling innovation… in this case, I am not sure either. The NFC is accessible to apps except for payment-related applications:
Core NFC | Apple Developer Documentation



I suppose it all depends where you live…



This page also indicates that it is not available either for Android phones (except Samsung) that don't use the Orange (or its low cost brand Sosh) network.



It works in Paris: Île-de-France Mobilités
This app allows to charge a Navigo Pass from the iPhone via NFC like ScotRail Smart tickets.


I think it shows that at least in this case, Apple is not stifling anything for consumers (banks may disagree, but the point here is to find and do what is good for consumers).
It looks like all what you claim is not possible on the iPhone is in fact possible. All is not always available but it is not because of Apple but because of the service providers, as demonstrated by others that offer exactly the same services on the iPhone.

Thanks for the big bunch of material. This topic has confused me a bit, because Apple doesn’t allow regular programmer to access NFC via Wallet Passbook. So part of what I wrote wasn’t accurate. NFC within Apple Wallet requires a special entitlement and permissions from Apple. Companies like Disney have signed a legal agreement and NDA and cannot discuss how the system works… it is just magic. Any of those materials you linked doesn’t mention NFC, but for sure it has to be the tech solution.

But for EU, Apple Pay & NFC seems to be the key problem. Not the universal access to NFC from Apple gear.

 

[falainber]

so what exactly is not working for YOU?

High payment fees. Absense of PayPal NFC app.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

really? maybe Apple should just disable NFC for the EU, problem solved

Yeah, Apple’s got geographic locks for Ultra Wideband, just disable the NFC and tell EU citizens to lobby their governments for changes.

If I were the EU, I’d be pulling out all the stops on incentives for companies to create an official EU cell phone. Do an Airbus subsidize it’s creation, subsidize the selling and drive competitors out of the EU smartphone business.

 

[Jambalaya]

Perhaps a lawyer can jump in for this question: when a company is accused of antitrust behavior, isn't there a requirement that consumers are forced to use the product, or are at least significantly disadvantaged if they don't?

I mean it in the context of, no one is really forced to buy an iPhone, anyone can easily switch to Android. I contrast that with Microsoft's antitrust in the 90s, where they had 90% market share and much of the software was only available on Windows, which de facto forced everyone onto Windows.

EU's point of view is (likely to be) that the payment functionality should be open to all and not just Apple. They point out that Android allows different payment platforms.

The real issue here is that EU is fundamentally a protectionist block and they hate the fact the US companies dominate "their" market. Apple's restrictions mean no EU payment platform can try and get a piece of the action and they hate that. We have seen similar actions against Microsoft and Google in the past

 

[jarman92]

No, actually they’re remarkably similar. Just because you can’t see the similarities doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

- Apple can set basically whatever terms they want that devs have to follow, otherwise they’ll be removed from the App Store. The EU can set whatever terms they want, otherwise Apple will be prohibited from doing business there.

- There are other platforms where devs are free to offer their apps. There are other countries where Apple is free to offer their smartphone.

- Apple’s App Store is the only point of access to a significant and profitable part of the app market. The EU is the only point of access for a significant and profitable part of the smartphone market.

- If consumers don’t like Apple’s actions, they’re free to vote with their wallet. If citizens don’t like the EU’s actions, they’re free to vote come election time.

And you mean there’s a two-way dependence between Apple and the EU, where each benefits from the other? Kind of like how Apple and developers have a two-way dependence, where each benefits from the other.

Except their essential purposes are entirely different: the EU exists (ostensibly) for the benefit of its citizens, i.e. to make good public policy; Apple exists for the benefit of its shareholders, i.e. to make money. It's the same reason why the US government is bound by the First Amendment, for example, but social media companies are not.

 

[Jambalaya]

Yeah, Apple’s got geographic locks for Ultra Wideband, just disable the NFC and tell EU citizens to lobby their governments for changes.

If I were the EU, I’d be pulling out all the stops on incentives for companies to create an official EU cell phone. Do an Airbus subsidize it’s creation, subsidize the selling and drive competitors out of the EU smartphone business.

The EU used to have Nokia. It's now effectively dead. The EU will never now have a sizeable (smart) phone maker. They've lost

 

[nitramluap]

Apple Pay allows me to use contactless payments for multiple banks in the one app. How is allowing a bank to require a user to open their specific app better (and not in itself anti-competitivie)?

They're just annoyed that Apple takes a minuscule amount of money for them to use this 'service' (it's not a service) and that a user, by using Apple Pay, can easily swap to a competitors payment card with a swipe if they want.

Surely this means Apple Pay is the exact opposite of anti-competitive? Apple Pay isn't the payment system at all - it uses existing payment formats that banks already use with their physical cards (PayWave, PayPass, etc.). It's not some magical new closed system.

 

[I7guy]

EU wants to turn iphone into Android. We'll see where this goes.

 

[I7guy]

[...] Apple exists for the benefit of its shareholders, [...]

Peter Drucker 101 would say differently. Apple exists to offer a service. The fact that the corporation makes money shows it is successful with it's services.

 

[Zarniwoop]

You aren't making any sense. I didn't even mention QR codes, let alone say they're "great." Apple has no control over NFC technology, only the chip in the iPhone. If your bus company wants to buy NFC readers and integrate with Wallet, they are perfectly able to do so.

Yeah, I mixed couple of things, because I didn’t know that to get an access to NFC with Apple Wallet, a special entitlement and permissions from Apple is needed. So a regular app can use NFC easily (only not for money transfer ect.), but a Wallet pass would need an NDA with Apple. So I understood your comment / point wrong. Sorry about that.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Who said anything about building their own phone? That's absurd. Apple requires banks, e.g., to integrate with Wallet if they want to allow their customers to use contactless payments. The alternative is for every bank to force consumers to use their individual apps, not for them to make their own phones.

GL. Because its not about banks allowing their customers but Apple allowing their customers to get the best deal possible for payment using THEIR smartphone. There is no competition by policy within iOS for this. Competition exists between smartphone makers … and there we go again … devices.

The question is wether Apple is abusing the leverage it has with popularity of its smartphone business to get into other types of businesses that are otherwise horizontal. Vertical integration my …

 

[Wildkraut]

Sounds like the lobbying of Tim Crook 1-2 weeks ago didn’t work out. ?

 

[vipergts2207]

I don't want to pick on the EU specifically here, but my vote [in the UK] has never ever once put my person of choice into parliament... and I've voted in many elections. Also, we rarely get to vote on single-issue matters, like antitrust law.

Your vote doesn't guarantee the outcome you desire. It would appear a majority of people have regularly disagreed with your position. That sometimes happens living in a democratic society. Not voting on single-issue matters is beside the point. You can still vote for people who hold the positions you do. If those positions are popular, your candidate of choice will win.

 

[deeddawg]

Your vote doesn't guarantee the outcome you desire. It would appear a majority of people have regularly disagreed with your position. That sometimes happens living in a democratic society. Not voting on single-issue matters is beside the point. You can still vote for people who hold the positions you do. If those positions are popular, your candidate of choice will win.

c.f. Tyranny of the Majority

 

[Zarniwoop]

EU wants to turn iphone into Android. We'll see where this goes.

Australia as well if you read the last part of the story.

So to get away with this problem, Apple Pay should work on Android phones. Businesses cannot adopt multiple de facto systems, that’s why we have just a few credit card companies in the whole world. Many businesses have started to use Apple Pay, and Android users might not have a contactless options available. Their field is too fragmented, so Apple has become a monopoly in the field of contactless payment.

EU seems to prefer that Apple opens their NFC system instead. Could be, that Apple already said a big no to expanding to Android systems.

 

[macar00n]

You could always move to the US and get exploited by companies all you want? Why pay $70 in Europe for an epipen, when you can pay $700 in the US!

I already live in the US and get exploited by companies all I (don't) want. The US is a giant farce, for its first-world status it has so many third-world aspects to it. So you're right to openly burn it, and I fully agree - I hope to live in a real first-world country someday. However, I still don't think whiny EU legislators should force Apple Pay open when consumers could just vote with their wallets and get an Android phone if they cared enough (hint: they don't)

 

[vipergts2207]

Except their essential purposes are entirely different: the EU exists (ostensibly) for the benefit of its citizens, i.e. to make good public policy; Apple exists for the benefit of its shareholders, i.e. to make money. It's the same reason why the US government is bound by the First Amendment, for example, but social media companies are not.

That Apple exists for the benefit of their shareholders is completely irrelevant. Apple has no divine right to do business however and wherever they want. And as you yourself pointed out, the EU exists for the benefit of its citizens and that includes making sure competition and markets operate as those countries see fit. In this case the EU sees Apple locking out third-party payment systems from NFC access as setting up barriers to competition in the marketplace.