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If you're not suggesting a replacement then I'm not sure what the point was in bringing up the existence of other forms of government.

I merely reminded that there's a spectrum between majority-rule (pure democracy) and rule by a single despot.

Anything beyond that is a fabrication in your own mind for some reason, perhaps to start an argument.

Not interested, I have better things to do than argue with strangers on the Internet.

Good day.

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Just pointing out that the EU isn't "unelected". The EU parliament (which the EU Commission is accountable to) is elected by the people, and the EU Council represents the member countries (which have their own democratically elected governments).
The EU Commission is the Executive body of the EU and it's not elected its appointed by the Council(which is also not elected).
I haven't seen any other EU institution interfere with the Commission on antitrust matters.
 
I don't want to pick on the EU specifically here, but my vote [in the UK] has never ever once put my person of choice into parliament... and I've voted in many elections. Also, we rarely get to vote on single-issue matters, like antitrust law.
I think that is the case everywhere
 
Those tens of millions of furious and disappointed Apple users that would stop buying their products? You don't believe this situation would affect Apple more that an unelected administrative body?

Tens of millions of furious citizens who would certainly call/write/tweet at their national and EU representatives. Yes, I believe that will affect the EU (as it should).

Apple has no production and any meaningful product development in Europe so I don't understand what trillions of euros are you taking about.

Have you heard of taxes?

Also, from Apple: "Apple has been operating in Europe for over 35 years and we’re proud to be an engine of growth for the economy, supporting over 1.7 million jobs. Last year, we spent over €10 billion with more than 4,300 European suppliers. Since we launched the App Store in 2008, Europe-based developers have earned over €20 billion in App Store sales worldwide." Yeah, sounds like Europe would notice their absence.
 
What is it that the EU doesn't understand about consumers not wanting massive fragmentation in every aspect of their lives? For example, if banks are allowed direct access to the NFC chip they're going to force you to open/use their terrible apps to use Apple Pay. Without Apple strong-arming them, they would have already done so in Australia.

Yeah, people don't like fragmantation. How's iWork working out for you? How about that Apple Music, I heard it's kick ass. :))))
 
Good, NFC should be open. I should be able to use other pay systems without having to buy another phone, or use a wallet when they don't take Apple pay. This is typical Apple behavior, and the same reason why their mobile devices aren't on USB-C, which is also on the chopping block. Good for the EU.
 
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Tens of millions of furious citizens who would certainly call/write/tweet at their national and EU representatives. Yes, I believe that will affect the EU (as it should).



Have you heard of taxes?

Also, from Apple: "Apple has been operating in Europe for over 35 years and we’re proud to be an engine of growth for the economy, supporting over 1.7 million jobs. Last year, we spent over €10 billion with more than 4,300 European suppliers. Since we launched the App Store in 2008, Europe-based developers have earned over €20 billion in App Store sales worldwide." Yeah, sounds like Europe would notice their absence.
I'm not going to go as far as to say Apple leaving would have no impact on the EU, but you're acting as if that would occur in a vacuum. Apple has something like 30% of the smartphone market in the EU. Do you think if Apple left that those people would suddenly decide to go without a smartphone?? No, they'll buy one of the many other devices on the market instead. Those jobs and billions of dollars Apple is spending will fall to other smartphone companies and their new influx of customers. Those developers will move to other platforms, if they're not already there. Of course this ignores the reality that Apple isn't leaving the EU to punish them, regardless of some people's fantasy.
 
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GL. Because its not about banks allowing their customers but Apple allowing their customers to get the best deal possible for payment using THEIR smartphone. There is no competition by policy within iOS for this. Competition exists between smartphone makers … and there we go again … devices.

The question is wether Apple is abusing the leverage it has with popularity of its smartphone business to get into other types of businesses that are otherwise horizontal. Vertical integration my …
That pesky micromanagement again...
 
I do NOT want the iPhone to be "open". I do NOT want apps to be able to be installed from all sorts of other places. I do NOT want my NFC chip to be taken over by numerous other apps. Seriously, the EU is ridiculous.

If you want "open" -- you buy an android and worry about hacks, viruses, malware, etc..

I want a phone that's consistently SAFE and SECURE. I'm WILLING and HAPPY to give up some features for that to be the case.
 
I'm not going to go as far as to say Apple leaving would have no impact on the EU, but you're acting as if that would occur in a vacuum. Apple has something like 30% of the smartphone market in the EU. Do you think if Apple left that those people would suddenly decide to go without a smartphone?? No, they'll buy one of the many other devices on the market instead. Those jobs and billions of dollars Apple is spending will fall to other smartphone companies and their new influx of customers. Those developers will move to other platforms, if they're not already there. Of course this ignores the reality that Apple isn't leaving the EU to punish them, regardless of some people's fantasy.
It's also a fantasy that Apple will allow it's assets to be diluted; that they will be told how to open their assets, what they should be giving away etc.
 
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It's also a fantasy that Apple will allow it's assets to be diluted; that they will be told how to open their assets, what they should be giving away etc.
When the alternative is exiting the second largest market in the world? Lol ok. Even acting as narrowly as disabling NFC and thus Apple Pay in Europe would simply be cutting off one's nose to spite their face.

 
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In other news, McD's doesn't allow you to order a Whopper with a Wendy's Frosty from their drive-thru. McD drive-thru's are super popular, so they should be selling Wendy's and Burger King's products too!

Also, you can *only* get coke products from McD's -- not being able to get a Pepsi is clearly anti-competitive.. /s
 
Tens of millions of furious citizens who would certainly call/write/tweet at their national and EU representatives. Yes, I believe that will affect the EU (as it should).



Have you heard of taxes?

Also, from Apple: "Apple has been operating in Europe for over 35 years and we’re proud to be an engine of growth for the economy, supporting over 1.7 million jobs. Last year, we spent over €10 billion with more than 4,300 European suppliers. Since we launched the App Store in 2008, Europe-based developers have earned over €20 billion in App Store sales worldwide." Yeah, sounds like Europe would notice their absence.
Why would they write to their representatives? It's Apple that took their toys and left "to teach EU a lesson" in your example so nobody kicked them out in the first place. Also what can parliament representatives do regarding the Commission charging companies of anticompetitive behavior? I'm curious.

EU would notice 20 billion dollars or 1.7 million jobs at a 445 million population? Really? You are amusing.

Like I've said, Apple has no leverage vs the EU.
 
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When the alternative is exiting the second largest market in the world? Lol ok. Even acting as narrowly as disabling NFC and thus Apple Pay in Europe would simply be cutting off one's nose to spite their face.

Don’t know what they are going to do or how to fend off the sharks, but Apple isn’t going down without a fight. If the question becomes which is less of a loss lose the revenue to stop offering the services.
 
I wonder if App Clips wouldn't be helpful here. Instead of opening the Wallet app, the double-tap could open a list of installed payment apps, select one and launch enough of the app to process the payment. Apple should require, and be allowed to require, developers of payment apps to support FaceID/TouchID to prevent electronic payments from taking more time than writing a check or fishing for exact change.

I suppose Apple should cave on one of these types of issues to see if there really is a there there. I doubt there is. While some may want to pick a different service for larger purchases, I don't think most would want multiple apps for everyday purchases.

Perhaps Apple should send a bunch of reps to Brussels, sit down with Vestager and just let her air all of her grievances with the company. Then Apple can decide whether to remain in the EU, offer EU-compliant products, etc. But she does seem laser focused on getting some sort of win or concession out of Cupertino. Has there been any evidence presented to show that there are tons of viable competitors waiting in the wings? Or would this be a situation where Apple is forced to make the change, almost nobody adopts the alternative, and it was all a huge waste of everyone's time?

I would add though that the recent FB outage does raise legit concerns about so much critical infrastructure being under the control of a single entity.
 
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What I don’t fully understand is who do the EU think they are helping?

Things like Apple Pay, App Store, iMessage etc are all things tightly controlled by apple which we see countless arguments about - but this is WHY I choose an iPhone, I’m perfectly happy for apple to have control over these things, it causes me no issues and I’m fully aware of the “limitations” if I wanted to I could no doubt spent a lot less money on an android device.

If something this goes through you just know banks will slowly start to introduce their own apps and trying to move away from Apple Pay which works so well.

I really don’t think things like this are for governments to be poking their noses in, they seem to come up with these ideas without fully understanding the implications behind it.
 
Don’t know what they are going to do or how to fend off the sharks, but Apple isn’t going down without a fight. If the question becomes which is less of a loss lose the revenue to stop offering the services.
Apple can fight (aka pay lobbyists and lawyers), but at the end of the day they're at the mercy of whatever the EU decides. Also, there's zero chance that disabling Apple Pay in the EU results in less of a hit to the bottom line than allowing third-party's access to NFC. Not only does Apple take the immediate revenue hit, but they also cease being a competitor in the second largest market in the world in what appears to be an area worth billions of dollars and growing.
 
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Apple can fight (aka pay lobbyists and lawyers), but at the end of the day they're at the mercy of whatever the EU decides. Also, there's zero chance that disabling Apple Pay in the EU results in less of a hit to the bottom line than allowing third-party's access to NFC. Not only does Apple take the immediate revenue hit, but they also cease being a competitor in the second largest market in the world in what appears to be an area worth billions of dollars and growing.
Surely that depends on what they are forced to do, if they allow third party access you can bet banks across the EU would drop Apple Pay access favouring their own app to avoid apples fee’s so that revenue stream would get cut anyway.

I can’t see any thing like that happening mind, or if it did I think it would be Apple trying to call their bluff I suspect the EU / apple would get a fair amount of backlash from its citizens.
 
I fail to see why this is even an issue… Or maybe it’s just me. Why would I want to use Google Pay on my Apple device?
 
Surely that depends on what they are forced to do, if they allow third party access you can bet banks across the EU would drop Apple Pay access favouring their own app to avoid apples fee’s so that revenue stream would get cut anyway.

I can’t see any thing like that happening mind, or if it did I think it would be Apple trying to call their bluff I suspect the EU / apple would get a fair amount of backlash from its citizens.
That is premised on a flawed assumption, which is that banks will just drop Apple Pay left, right, and center. If consumers find Apple Pay to be a worthwhile feature, they'll choose to do business with the banks that offer it. By that same token, banks looking to capitalize on a popular feature will leverage that feature to draw in and retain consumers. Additionally, Apple's current implementation is already pretty slick. If consumers have to go into a separate app or use some other more onerous method, just to use one bank's payment option, they may simply revert to using a less secure piece of plastic or use a different card altogether. Personally the former is what I largely do anyway at brick and mortar stores, just because reaching for my wallet is what I'm accustomed to, even though all of my cards are in Apple Pay. I love using Apple Pay online however. It's much more convenient than typing in credit card details every time I buy something somewhere that's not Amazon. Are banks going to cede being part of such a convenient and widely available payment option over 0.15% when the alternative is that the customer may choose to use a different Apple Pay-supported card altogether, resulting in $0.00 for the bank? And let's not lose sight of the fact that the reason banks were willing to give Apple a 0.15% cut in the first place is because using Apple Pay is very secure and uses biometric authentication and is not easily susceptible to theft or fraud, which in the end saves the bank money. They lose that benefit if people go back to plastic. Apple is also fortunate in that the cake is largely already baked. For banks who perhaps might wish to renege on Apple Pay support, it's far easier to never implement a popular feature in the first place than it is to rescind it once it's out there. I have no problem if Apple remains the most popular and widely implemented wallet out there. However, it should happen organically, not because Apple put up artificial walls that not only prevent competition, but potentially hamper future innovation.
 
These damn bureaucrats are at it again. This is just another tax on success because they can’t manage their finances. The only true monopoly is the government itself.
 
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