EU Warns Apple About Limiting Speeds of Uncertified USB-C Cables for iPhones

[Dolphins]

I really want to know how EU warranty laws are going to work with this? Does someone just have to plug in a USB Port killer to get a new device? I am asking a real question because I honestly don't know. What determines manufacturer defect vs abuse?

In EU warranty law, basically it's very simple. If you buy a product and have a defect in one year, the defect is considered being present at the moment of sale. The person/company who sold you the product have to repair/replace the product within a reasonable time frame, unless they can prove that the defect is caused by you.
If the defect occurs between 1 and 2 years, the person/company who sold you the product have to repair/replace the product within a reasonable time frame, but only if you can prove that the defect did occur without any wrongdoing from your side.

This is the minimum law within the EU regarding warranty. Member states however are free to divert from it, als long as it is not less than the minimum law. I'm dutch and in my country the law states that warranty is only limited by the expected lifetime of the product. So if Apple is selling iPhones with a life expectancy of 5 years (as they offer iOS updates for 5 years), the warranty period is also 5 years. Unless of cause Apple wants to state in a courtroom that there products only last 2 years. After 1 year, I of cause have to proof that the defect isn't caused by my wrong doing.
Sounds nice, but normally it means that if your iPhone dies after 3 years of use, without any obvious cause, you just replace it. Nobody is going to spend time and money on a 3 year old device.

So if you, as you put it, plug in a USB C port killer and you do this within one year after buying the product, Apple will have to prove the defect wasn't present when you bought the device. Something they probably can do very easy, as putting to much power on electrical components will always leave marks. After that year, you need to prove that the defect wasn't your fault. You only can do that by having an independent researcher looking into it. They (probably) will find of cause traces of to much electrical power on the phone. Which means you lose the case an can pay for it all yourself. Again, it's not worth the price of an iPhone.



If you want to read for yourself:
Directive (EU) 2019/771 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 2019 on certain aspects concerning contracts for the sale of goods, amending Regulation (EU) 2017/2394 and Directive 2009/22/EC, and repealing Directive 1999/44/EC (Text with EEA relevance.)


Ow and of cause the usual general disclaimer: I'm not working for the court system/law firms etc. Nor do I hold any degree regarding practicing law that should give one the idea that I should know more about laws than any other common man. If you start doing stupid things after reading this post, they are, well, your stupid things. Therefore only you will be responsible for them.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I would just drop the EU market if I were apple. Initially this would mean loss of profit but in the long run it’s only gonna be beneficial. It’s gonna become impossible to keep up with this ever growing rule making EU fetisjisme. These EU-SSR bureaucrats think the’re so damn smart. They would ruin the whole Tech industry just to satisfy their ridiculous convictions. I live in the EU and I am deeply ashamed of this ever lasting self-destruction political mentality.

What benefit would it be to Apple to abandon a market that secures over a third of their global profit? That’s not just a small initial loss of profit, that’s tens of billions a year. I think you’ll find however that Apples profits are already falling in the EU but from consumer choice. High inflation here has meant they’ve seen a huge fall in sales anyway, maybe it’s Europe that will eventually drop Apple, not the other way around.

 

[Dolphins]

I would just drop the EU market if I were apple. Initially this would mean loss of profit but in the long run it’s only gonna be beneficial. It’s gonna become impossible to keep up with this ever growing rule making EU fetisjisme. These EU-SSR bureaucrats think the’re so damn smart. They would ruin the whole Tech industry just to satisfy their ridiculous convictions. I live in the EU and I am deeply ashamed of this ever lasting self-destruction political mentality.

Basically, they only would have to sell the pro models in the EU, as they will probably not be limited. As for iOS/Aplle store, I just hope they make a switch, EU compliant yes/no. I would like to have that choice.

 

[bookofxero]

Basically, they only would have to sell the pro models in the EU, as they will probably not be limited. As for iOS/Aplle store, I just hope they make a switch, EU compliant yes/no. I would like to have that choice.

Limited in what way? USB-C is the connector type, not the data standard. As I mentioned before, lots of USB-C charging cables for Android phones that can only transfer at USB 2.0 speeds. USB-C is NOT the same as USB 3.2. The USB4 standard includes the USB-C connector as part of it - maybe that is causing the confusion?

 

[tripsync]

You’ve never lent someone a cable? It’s not a question of someone bringing a cable for everyone, it’s nice for people to be able to say “crap, I‘m at 3% and I left my cable at home/it’s broken, do you have one on you?”. I wouldnt say it’s a primary reason to have common cables, but it’s certainly useful. I’ve had that happen with friends, with coworkers, with devices at conferences, etc. It’s not exactly crazy rare….

lol i am not trusting someone to give me a random usb-c cable.

while not all lightning cables are safe, certainly there's some benefit to MFi lightning cables and iPhone denying connections with non-MFi lightning cables.

and lightning certainly is quite common. EU is essentially dumping billions of functional lightning cables around the world. what do you with that?

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

It shouldn't have affected anyone because there shouldn't be a regulation in the first place. I'm not an Apple shareholder, and, again, I couldn't care less what port they use. My point is it should be up to Apple and Apple alone how they design their product, including the I/O. I never said nor even implied there was a conspiracy.

They aren't really dictatng the design.

Honestly if you are this upset about a charging port you are going to be really upset when the App Store gets torn to pieces by regulators.

 

[hack.opus0y]

I’m glad there is an adult in the room to put Apple on notice.

And this is how innovation dies.... to thunderous applause..

 

[hack.opus0y]

So the EU will compensate people who have their phones destroyed by cheap cables from China? Will they compensate people who have property destroyed when cheap cables melt and start fires? Complain all you want about MFI certifications but at least it guarantees that the cable will be robust enough to handle the draw from the device.

Seriously, being THIS prescriptive will stifle innovation.

 

[darngooddesign]

I‘ve had this at the office so many times, someone forgets their cable, asks around. Every brand uses USB-C except iPhones and then it‘s „oh sorry, I only have an iPhone cable“, or vice versa. Same as in any other public situation, or when being with friends, family, etc.
Maybe Apple should bring their own power outlets along which we could install into our walls as well. After all, they will be better.

Who doesn’t keep a cable at their office? Or even in their bag?

 

[darngooddesign]

And this is how innovation dies.... to thunderous applause..

Solid reference.

 

[seek3r]

Who doesn’t keep a cable at their office? Or even in their bag?

Who’s never had a cable break or forgotten/lost something from their bag?

 

[usagora]

They aren't really dictatng the design.

Honestly if you are this upset about a charging port you are going to be really upset when the App Store gets torn to pieces by regulators.

As I've been pretty clear about to those with ears to hear, this is not about a charging port. It's about overreaching governmental control.

 

[Mr. Dee]

And this is how innovation dies.... to thunderous applause..

You mean, ensuring you don't get a crippled product? Seriously, take off the rose colored glasses. Because Apple hasn't even been innovating. They are making money off products launched more than 10 years ago.

 

[blufrog]

I really have to give a big thank you to the EU for trying to save us from proprietary cable mayhem. Wish we had similar consumer protection laws in the US.

The fastest way to stifle innovation is for Government to get involved.

The EUSSR can get stuffed. We didn't ask for nor want their opinion.

 

[blufrog]

I’m glad there is an adult in the room to put Apple on notice.

"Adult"? You Lefties love this BS.

It's Government over-reach. The Commies can sod off!

 

[bsolar]

The fastest way to stifle innovation is for Government to get involved.

Well, historically your mileage may vary a lot. A ton of innovation we had and still have comes from goverment-backed projects and research. Prime example, the Internet originated from research commissioned by the US Department of Defense.

Also, often innovation is a direct response to overcoming some sort of limitation. Regulation can put limitations that push innovation to happen in a favourable direction, e.g. limiting the sale of fuel-inefficient engines pushed the development of much more fuel-efficient models. Now the planned ban of traditional engines is pushing the development of better and better electric cars.

The EUSSR can get stuffed. We didn't ask for nor want their opinion.

Apple is not forced to do business in a country with rules they don't like. This didn't stop them from doing business in China, so I doubt they will stop doing business in the EU even if they disagree with the additional regulation.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Basically, they only would have to sell the pro models in the EU, as they will probably not be limited. As for iOS/Aplle store, I just hope they make a switch, EU compliant yes/no. I would like to have that choice.

Apple would lose billions if they only sold Pro models in the EU though, not sure what advantage that would be?

 

[blufrog]

Well, historically your mileage may vary a lot. A ton of innovation we had and still have comes from goverment-backed projects and research. Prime example, the Internet originated from research commissioned by the US Department of Defense.

Yes, but that is different to saying "you will use this connector" without any data to support why it is best for EVERYTHING.

 

[bsolar]

Yes, but that is different to saying "you will use this connector" without any data to support why it is best for EVERYTHING.

While it's perfectly fine to disagree with the EU's decision in the matter, they do provide rationale and said rationale is supported by data from different studies and impact assessments.

 

[Dolphins]

Limited in what way? USB-C is the connector type, not the data standard. As I mentioned before, lots of USB-C charging cables for Android phones that can only transfer at USB 2.0 speeds. USB-C is NOT the same as USB 3.2. The USB4 standard includes the USB-C connector as part of it - maybe that is causing the confusion?

Well, that is not correct, USB-C is not a connector type. USB is the protocol, C is the connector type. I can use the C connector type for a whole lot more than just USB and I can use USB on a whole lot more connectors than just the C type connector. I once had a colleague who used a type A connector to get RS232 communication going into and out of a controlled environment.

Now the confusion starts with the EU. The goal of the EU is very clear, basically they mandate that from the 28th decmeber 2024, all devices sold in the EU, which are capable of being recharged via wired charging, should do so, using a C type connector. We can argue that that is very smart or completely stupid, bottom line, they want to ged rid of all the different connectors for charging. Nowhere in the directive they talk about data speeds.

Now rumor has it that Apple is planning to limit the port on the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus if not using a 'correct' cable. The EU reacted to this rumor by stating this could mean the banning of the iPhone 15 in the EU. That is a somewhat unusual response as the 'one connector to charge them all' directive will only be in effect after the 28th of december 2024 and again, this directive only mandates charging, not data speeds. Furthermore the 10th generation iPad speed is limited to USB 2.0 speeds. I didn't hear anyone from the EU saying they are going to ban that iPad. I also do not know any law that forbids the 'activation of extra options' by paying for those options (what basically MFI would be). If that would be the case, a lot of car owners within the EU would be very happy as their cars suddenly would have all options available for which they now have to pay extra.

Timo_737 made a remark that, if he was Apple, he would leave the EU. In my opinion, if the EU realy would ban the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 PLus, because of this (then not more rumored) limitations, Apple only would have to stop the sales of the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus, as there are no rumors the iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max will be limited. I furthermore believe the iPhone 17 to be portless, ending the entire discussion on what should, could and would be allowed.


Link to the EU directive amending directive 2014/53/EU:
DIRECTIVE OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL amending Directive 2014/53/EU on the harmonisation of the laws of the Member States relating to the making available on the market of radio equipment.

 

[jlc1978]

Well, that is not correct, USB-C is not a connector type. USB is the protocol, C is the connector type. I can use the C connector type for a whole lot more than just USB and I can use USB on a whole lot more connectors than just the C type connector. I once had a colleague who used a type A connector to get RS232 communication going into and out of a controlled environment.

Good points; and as you point out all USB-C cables may not be capable of charging or even compatible with an iPhone.

Now the confusion starts with the EU. The goal of the EU is very clear, basically they mandate that from the 28th decmeber 2024, all devices sold in the EU, which are capable of being recharged via wired charging, should do so, using a C type connector. We can argue that that is very smart or completely stupid, bottom line, they want to ged rid of all the different connectors for charging. Nowhere in the directive they talk about data speeds.

Which is why I think if Apple were to use MiFi it's more likely for data than charging, since the spec allows for proprietary protocols and teh regulation does as well; as long as you have the corresponding PD capability.

Timo_737 made a remark that, if he was Apple, he would leave the EU.

Yea, that's not going to happen. Personally, I think Apple was moving to the USB-C port anyway; and I would not be surprised if they influenced the date the regulation goes into force to accommodate their product roadmap.

I furthermore believe the iPhone 17 to be portless, ending the entire discussion on what should, could and would be allowed.

I suspect something similar, with perhaps a data only port on the Pro models to allow for faster transfers while the regular ones use wireless data transfer.

 

[kevinof]

The fastest way to stifle innovation is for Government to get involved.

The EUSSR can get stuffed. We didn't ask for nor want their opinion.

And I don't think the EU (it's 27 governments and not 1) care about your opinion either or Apples for that matter. This rule applies to all hardware providers.

 

[bsolar]

Now rumor has it that Apple is planning to limit the port on the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus if not using a 'correct' cable. The EU reacted to this rumor by stating this could mean the banning of the iPhone 15 in the EU. That is a somewhat unusual response as the 'one connector to charge them all' directive will only be in effect after the 28th of december 2024 and again, this directive only mandates charging, not data speeds.

From what I understand from the article, the issue is indeed "fast" charging, not data. The quote attributed to Thierry Breton is as follows:

Geräte, die die Anforderungen an das einheitliche Ladegerät nicht erfüllen, werden auf dem EU-Markt nicht zugelassen.

Translated:

Devices which don't satisfy the common charger requirements will not be allowed in the EU market.

The directive mandates the following requirements in regards of "fast" charging (emphasis mine):

3. In so far as they are capable of being recharged by means of wired charging at voltages higher than 5 Volts, currents higher than 3 Amperes or powers higher than 15 Watts, the categories or classes of radio equipment referred to in point 1 of this Part shall:
3.1. incorporate the USB Power Delivery, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021 “Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power – Part 1-2: Common components – USB Power Delivery specification”;
3.2. ensure that any additional charging protocol allows for the full functionality of the USB Power Delivery referred to in point 3.1, irrespective of the charging device used.

Basically this mandates that if the device is capable of fast charging, said fast charging needs to be available to any charging equipment which supports the relevant USB fast charging specification and not be locked behind a different proprietary protocol requiring a charging device with a proprietary certification on top of the USB one.

 

[laptech]

I have no doubt that other electronic device manufacturers are more alarmed at the EU's position on this than Apple is because there will be a huge amount of electronic device manufacturers who's costs margins are a lot more tighter than Apples and thus rely on sales of accessories to help with company profits and without those accessory sales profits start to dip. Apple does not seem to have this problem.

The only difference here is that other companies affected have not been as outspoken about it as Apple have.

 

[Crowbot]

Great. And even better, when those devices are obsolete and you replace them with something else, you won't have to buy new cables!

Fine. Until the EU decides that another design is going to be required and we can have this debate all over again.