EU Warns Apple About Limiting Speeds of Uncertified USB-C Cables for iPhones

[Fred Zed]

Moving from EU to NA made me realise how much consumer protection I had a privilege to get when being in EU. Here in NA its shocking how badly the consumer is not protected. Starting with warranty to delayed flights etc. Its a mess.

I wish EU was in NA too. Maybe called NAU

All of us would benefit

Never happen in the USA. It’s called lobbying. More power to the corps less for the consumer.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

This is the problem with them creating a law that enforces a charging standard, it hasn't even been implemented yet, and there is already issues. The law said nothing about charging speeds or limitations based on anything. A company could say, yes it charges with USB-C, but charges faster when the color of the cable matches the phone.

Yes it did. The law is crystal clear from day one. If a phone can be fast charged it must support usb PD standard if you can't use a USB c cable that is compatible with USB PD because it the wrong color then it's not legal and breaks the regulatory implementation.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

My point is just because the government can do something doesn't mean they should do it. Some people want the government to force companies to make decisions and do things they want them to do. Just because someone wants something doesn't mean there's justification for legal force. I think for the most part when governments force companies do things that are out of their scope that aren't relevant to protecting consumers or the environment, then it stifles innovation. If the iPhone was electrocuting people, then that's where the government should come in and force Apple to fix the problem because it's a danger. If the iPhone was leaking toxic chemicals, then it's harming the environment so if something needs to be done.

If the EU forced Apple to do this when Lightning came out, iPhones would have micro USB today. Can you imagine the big 💩 that would be

And why isn't phones using micro USB today? What happened with the law of forcing everyone to use it?

Well it was time limited and expired hence why USB c is now the current implementation. Perhaps your not used to it but laws and regulations can sometimes be intelligently implemented.

Same with this when USB c is a standard on everything then it nolonger serva a purpose to exist and can be repealed.

 

[mrochester]

I don't, but that's not the point. The point is that if enough electors share your opinion that the government should force Apple to provide said option by law, literally the job of the govermnent would be to do exactly that.

Consumers hate advertising. EU are yet to ban it.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Not saying Apple would, but there's no longer the option of an out of the box MagSafe port solution for iPhone, just the giant hockeypuck MagSafe. The current third party USB-C magnet solutions are not safe to use.


Well you don't have that choice because it's been removed.

Who knows, maybe Apple could have developed MagSafe 4 that works on MacBooks/iPhones/Watches/Mice/Trackpads/Keyboards/Pencils. Those in the ecosystem can live with 1 MagSafe cable instead of bringing USB-C and Apple Watch cables. That's no longer a choice. You must always bring a USB-C cable and something to charge Apple Watch with. I don't see putting a USB-C port on the Apple Watch anytime soon because I assume plugging in USB-C right after swimming might damage the device.

I don’t know a single person who charges their iPhone via MagSafe to be honest, it might as well not be there. The only use I have for it is to attach to a magnetic holder on my cars dashboard. When MagSafe came out the charger was overpriced at £59 and this put myself and I’d imagine many others off. It’s largely been forgotten about for me. I plug the phone in still for charging and I’m confident this is still the most popular method.

The watch has always had the same charger and one comes with every purchase. I highly doubt that will ever be USB-C as for that device it would be a step back. Transfer speeds are irrelevant with the Watch. iPhones are different in that regard and getting rid of the lightning connector is a natural progressive step as USB-C is becoming the standard on nearly all devices. My laptop, headphones, iPad, electric shaver, mouse etc all use USB-C.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yeah, I'm sort of on the other end. I carry a small cable kit and a large battery bank. Do you carry a charger too?

I’ve usually got a battery power bank on my travels. Right now I carry an iPhone cable , iPad and Apple Watch cables so it would be nice to go from 3 down to 2 for a minor improvement.

 

[Gudi]

It's actually very bad politics to react and comment on rumors. And even publicly issue a warning! If the EU commissioner would've contacted Apple directly with his concerns, it would've been way better. As a European I can not praise our bunch of idiots politicians. 🇪🇺

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

It's actually very bad politics to react and comment on rumors. And even publicly issue a warning! If the EU commissioner would've contacted Apple directly with his concerns, it would've been way better. As a European I can not praise our bunch of idiots politicians. 🇪🇺

Sounds like the letter was more a case of reiterating what they had already discussed with Apple

In response to this rumor, European Commissioner Thierry Breton has sent Apple a letter warning the company that limiting the functionality of USB-C cables would not be permitted and would prevent iPhones from being sold in the EU when the law goes into effect, according to German newspaper Die Zeit. The letter was obtained by German press agency DPA, and the report says the EU also warned Apple during a meeting in mid-March.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I see a big hurdle in the fact that CarPlay generally relies on MFi, and if they switch from authenticated cables to non, you would lose CarPlay if you bought a new phone with an older car. So my guess is that they have USB-C cables with MFi that allow for backwards compatibility with existing systems. CarPlay would not be the only one, but it is probably by far the most prominent.

Well easy apple can update it.

Framing is everything here.
You can say, "Apple is making special USB-C cables with MFi to ensure compatibility with existing 3rd party MFi systems"

OR you can say, "Apple is artificially limiting certain functionality over USB-C cables"

Both are "correct", but the second one is missing the point. The first is correctly including the context that prior systems will expect MFi authentication, and are not designed to work without it, while the second excludes that important context.

Depends, is the handshake done on the iphone or inside the MFi item. The only think stated is limitation on charging functionality.

It could be that apple is intentionally excluding an embedded MFi authentication in its USB-C implementation, but there could be engineering reasons why doing so might compromise non-MFI connections.

An MFi authentication chip have zero usage for the function of the device. Nothing prevents the iphone from using a non MFi device except software.

I used to have access to many of the MFi docs, and always hoped to see something about MFi over USB-C, but never did.

Imagine, the EU forces apples hand and from 2023 on, you simply can't buy a new iPhone without buying a new car if you want CarPlay because for most new cars, aftermarket head units are no longer a reasonable option.

Nothing prevents apple from doing a MFI over USB c. And it can't be imagined as its just an apple implemented limitation. USB a to USb c

As a USA Consumer where we have few consumer protection and data privacy laws, I appreciate a lot of what the EU does. However in this case, unless the EU is going to step in and test/certify every USB-C cable sold on the market, or is going to warranty my iPhone, then I don’t really think the EU should get involved in how Apple chooses to implement. If Apple has a USB-C charging port, and accepts cables that are certified to a USB-C standard (which Apple should clearly identify), I have no issue with Apple either defining higher standards for MFi cables, and or defining what its warranty coverage is in the case of using not Apple-certified USB-C charging cables. Personally I have three Apple iPads that have USB-C Charging ports. And I’ve never had a problem. Usually I use non-apple chargers and cables. But I always look for a MFI certified cable, because there is no other USB certified testing service, either in the market or that I trust.

EU will not verify USB cables for Apple. It still must meat USB Standard and CE qualifications.

...defining what its warranty coverage is in the case of using not Apple-certified USB-C charging cables...

And EU already have legal ground for what warranty always cover. This changes nothing as its still illegal to do this.

I would never use a non-certified cable with my Apple devices — they are too expensive of a device to use $2 cables to charge. And have seen fires or damaged charging ports from non-MFi certified cables. So its a real issue. If the EU want to ensure anyone can charge their phone with a USB-C cable, that’s fine,

Well considering lightning cables aren't standard USB I'm not surprised. But USB-C to USB-C is a standard controlled by a large body. so perhaps don't import shady cables.

but any manufacturer sould have the right to limit high speed charging to clearly certified cables given the device price & safety risk. ANd if consumers don’t agree with that they should buy a phone from another manufacturer with lower safety standards.

No they aren't and there's no reason to allow them to do that. If a cable is rated for 60w charging and the phone/powerbrick can provide it then they are allowed to be used.

A minimum safety standard for being allowed in the market already exist. As you might know. We regulate things to a safe level before things happen instead of after its already too late.

Phone manufacturers with lower safety standards aren't allowed in.

 

[Yammabot]

If the EU were so good at electronics why don’t they just make their own devices and stop telling real companies how to make good products! Seems like a bunch of stuffed shirts making decisions about things they have no idea about. Every think about where the fines go and who’s really paying for them and all the attorneys? This is probably why your iPhone cost 1400 instead of 1000. Use your head sheeple!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

If the EU were so good at electronics why don’t they just make their own devices and stop telling real companies how to make good products! Seems like a bunch of stuffed shirts making decisions about things they have no idea about. Every think about where the fines go and who’s really paying for them and all the attorneys? This is probably why your iPhone cost 1400 instead of 1000. Use your head sheeple!

Huh? What makes you think electronics aren’t designed/made within the EU and what do you mean by ‘real companies’? That sounds rather misinformed to me.

 

[Yammabot]

Huh? What makes you think electronics aren’t designed/made within the EU and what do you mean by ‘real companies’? That sounds rather misinformed to me.

I think you missed the point entirely!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I think you missed the point entirely!

I understood your point about prices being higher because you think this inflated the price, but that comes down to inflation and Apple taking advantage of the situation also. I took issue with your suggestion the EU doesn’t have real companies that produce electronic devices which we all know is tripe. Europe isn’t somehow privileged to have products like the iPhone, it just so happens to be something a small part of the market like to buy. Apple are fortunate a third of their global profit comes from Europe but that could all change if they were prevented from trading here. Nobody wants that but companies all have to abide by the same environmental initiatives. Car companies are able to develop this way, no reason electronics companies can’t too.

 

[Yammabot]

Why Apple doesn’t just skip USB-C and go port less making everything wireless charging? One charger for every device regardless of manufacturer or operating system.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Why Apple doesn’t just skip USB-C and go port less making everything wireless charging? One charger for every device regardless of manufacturer or operating system.

Probably because cables are still widely used to extract data from the devices and also Apple CarPlay is still wired in many new cars even in high end luxury cars. I’m looking at new cars now and not a single one uses wireless CarPlay which is surprising but that’s what it is. The port is also used to recover devices when everything else has locked up.

 

[Gudi]

Sounds like the letter was more a case of reiterating what they had already discussed with Apple.

Doesn't matter.

In response to this rumor, European Commissioner Thierry Breton has sent Apple a letter warning the company that limiting the functionality of USB-C cables would not be permitted and would prevent iPhones from being sold in the EU when the law goes into effect, according to German newspaper Die Zeit. The letter was obtained by German press agency DPA, and the report says the EU also warned Apple during a meeting in mid-March.

This is the part I'm objecting to. Never respond to rumors, not when your job is EU Commissioner. You could ask Apple for clarification. But issuing a warning on a rumor? Come on! Don't make it too obvious that the French hate foreign corporations.

 

[Gudi]

Every think about where the fines go and who’s really paying for them and all the attorneys? This is probably why your iPhone cost 1400 instead of 1000. Use your head sheeple!

Improve your reading comprehension! There are no fines, he's threatening a sales ban. No iPhone is the cheapest iPhone. Costs you zero in every currency.

 

[russell_314]

And why isn't phones using micro USB today? What happened with the law of forcing everyone to use it?

Because the EU didn’t force Apple to use micro USB instead of their proprietary Lightning

Well it was time limited and expired hence why USB c is now the current implementation. Perhaps your not used to it but laws and regulations can sometimes be intelligently implemented.

Same with this when USB c is a standard on everything then it nolonger serva a purpose to exist and can be repealed.

Do you realize how slow governments are to repeal laws?

 

[0924487]

Respectfully, if we allow government to get into design… we’ll all be driving Trabants and Yugos.

Well, the Chinese government and military affiliated company Hongqi designed those, which I think are pretty sleek.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

So about three weeks ago my neighbors house caught fire from a faulty charger. Destroy a room to the point where the ceiling caved in and it caused damage throughout the house house. They had to move. If it happened this week with the high fire weather we have been having it would have probably put all house around here at risk.

I had a car charger start smoking while I was on the freeway a few years back. Burned my hand trying to disconnect the charger and get to the shoulder. It wasn't a cheap/no-name charger to any stretch of the imagination. At best I got a we'll send you another one that shouldn't happen.

Was there any news coverage about any of it?

It's a real problem that's just overlooked.

Not to mention I am not crazy about USB C in general. I know it's personal experiences but I've had a Switch go bad with the response you're at fault for using Anker instead of Nintendo. I've had ports become lose that I have to have plugged in just right to charge. Coworker lost two Chromebooks to dead USB C charging ports made by Asus and using either stock or name brand chargers. I have dropped serious money (with research) on getting good cables and chargers and I've still had issues. USB C is great standard for everyone to blame the other guy when there is a problem and the person who loses is the customer. Anker blamed Nintendo for not running proper USB C spec and Nintendo said if it's not their charger its not on them. Where is the government intervention here?

Plenty of "experts" in this thread claiming that if you have a fire/port break/bad experience it's on you. Give me a break. The majority of people on here are claiming that a good charger is dictated by spending lots of money. What reality do you all live in? Most people are technology stupid and likely think that gas station cable is no different than any other. I bet some of those cables even cost a pretty penny just because they are convenient.

I really want to know how EU warranty laws are going to work with this? Does someone just have to plug in a USB Port killer to get a new device? I am asking a real question because I honestly don't know. What determines manufacturer defect vs abuse?

It depends of the country. If in sweden then the seller is forced to prove that you as a consumer is at fault within 6 months and it's assumed it was a manufacturer defect, and after that you as a consumer need to prove it.

If your room burns up its way past a warranty and an insurance claim.

 

[darngooddesign]

I think you missed the point entirely!

You need to add the sarcasm tag. /s

sheeple! … LOL

 

[darngooddesign]

Because the EU didn’t force Apple to use micro USB instead of their proprietary Lightning

Back then a loophole allowed for a MicroUSB adapter.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Because the EU didn’t force Apple to use micro USB instead of their proprietary Lightning

I didn't talk about iPhones. When the law was in effect everyone started using micro usb, this law has been removed and everyone have gone to using USB C instead.

Do you realize how slow governments are to repeal laws?

Every government isn't the USA. EU have a fast legislative procedure as its easy to remove laws when they are obsolete. That is why the legal text do not have a single technological requirement but points to USBs own standard as maintained by them. So the second that standard is changed it will legally change as well.

This specification EN 62684:2010(micro usb) was active from 2009 to 2014, and has since been withdrawn as obsolete.

 

[AppliedMicro]

It's actually very bad politics to react and comment on rumors. And even publicly issue a warning! If the EU commissioner would've contacted Apple directly with his concerns

That‘s exactly what the article stated. He se

„In response to this rumor, European Commissioner Thierry Breton has sent Apple a letter warning the company that limiting the functionality of USB-C cables would not be permitted and would prevent iPhones from being sold in the EU when the law goes into effect, according to German newspaper Die Zeit“

Maybe you better heed your own advice and „improve your reading comprehension“.

Don't make it too obvious that the French hate foreign corporations.

Let’s stay on topic here: He‘s making it obvious that he hates corporations that don‘t want to follow the law.

 

[darngooddesign]

…This specification EN 62684:2010(micro usb) was active from 2009 to 2014, and has since been withdrawn as obsolete.

This is a good response to all the “what if something better comes out” arguments. Micro-USB was the common port until USB-C came out and now USB-C is the common port. And when something better than USB-C comes out, the EU will standardize around that. The main difference between then and now is that a port adapter no longer satisfies the requirements.