EU Warns Apple About Limiting Speeds of Uncertified USB-C Cables for iPhones

[tripsync]

The legislation is specifically limited to physical charging of electronic devices.
You’re making up a straw man argument with your “all software” statement.

The argument was about EU considering "interoperability" to be important. But thanks for joining in on an argument that you didn't read at all.

ideal

1. perfect, or the best possible: 2. a principle or a way of behaving that is…

dictionary.cambridge.org

They literally provide the definition of “best possible”.

Google's definition I saw: "satisfying one's conception of what is perfect; most suitable." (see attachment).

Apple's **conception** of what is perfect does not necessarily mean what is actually perfect or at least what is perfect to you.

It’s absolutely on topic in the context of Apple products.

Apple's marketing of a cable is off topic. Agree to disagree.

Now would be the best time!?

Subjective. If now, hundreds of millions of people would be forced to buy something at the time of iPhone purchase. Best time IMO would be the time where very little people would need to buy a charging method for the new portless iPhone. Since lightning cables are plentiful, we should keep using lightning until MagSafe/Qi is widely adopted and then make the switch. That is the most environmentally friendly way to do it. Not by forcing people to buy usb-c cables for a few years and then go portless.

To be clear, the EU doesn’t require a device to have a physical charging port.

I'm well aware.

The EU is mandating a technology under very specific circumstances and providing clear reasoning for that. It’s the straw man again.

Google Cast and AirPlay is a piece of technology working under very specific circumstance and there is a clear reason to merge them two.
Not straw man.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Yes, for probably 90% or more of the users.



Most people don't backup or transfer 500gb at one shot; rather it is an incremental process as the phone fills up. As a result, transfer speed is not an issue; especially since that is a background task that often runs at low use times anyway.

At most, they will do a restore from backup when getting a new phone, every few years; and in my expereince the speed is less of an issue even with large backups as the phone becomes useable while the files download; and most people do not need instant access to 500gb of data.

So yes, portless iPhones are a viable future option for most users. Will Apple go there? Who knows.

I think you should read again. 500Gb was just the worst case.

Bellow i had example of time transferring 20Gb of music. For comparison USB 3 would be done in 1min<

from clicking to sync button to > sync completed , in itunes , 20GB's of misc MP3's​

20GB's in 17m34s or about 19.04MB/s via USB cable​

​

20GB's in 52m53s or about 6.2MB/s via AC wifi 3X slower than USB2 speeds?!​

Huh. Your evidence shows that their concern was almost entirely about chargers. Something completely independent of the port on the phone itself.

You should read the document I pinned with the comment. Both are of concern for difrent reasons

I can guarantee you that the average person has never heard off or has any idea what CE Is. The 'Made for iPhone/Ipad' stickers hold much more meaning to the average consumer then a CE marking lol.

Everyone have heard it because it's on almost everything.

This has nothing to do with frayed, damaged for manufacturing faults. This is manufactures race to the bottom and cutting corners to lower their cost. So many USB-A cables barely met the requirements set out of the USB standard forget USB-C.

If a cable is not designed to use the high power level, it will literally start to melt or get to hot to touch.

Google engineer leaves scathing reviews of dodgy USB Type-C cables on Amazon

Most cheap USB Type-C cables can’t carry the full 3.0A required by the spec.

arstechnica.com

USB Type-C cable so bad it fries Google engineer’s Chromebook Pixel

Benson Leung, the Type-C cable testing vigilante, has finally met his match.

arstechnica.com

Perhaps somthing modern? Considering those cables was counterfeits.

No, every USB cable is not verified by USB-IF. There are so many cables that are not USB-if verified/certified/compliant.

Yes every cable is. Cables that aren't verified are quite literally counterfeits if not the "dodgy cables" didn't give it away.

Apple has much a more stringent verification process for MFI cables as well as a way to identify which cables are certified. You can usb a non compliant USB-IF cable and never know.

Apple have zero control because the method and chip used for MFI verification was cracked a decade ago.

You guys are all living in a perfect world or are ignorant to the face that most people do not have the same level of knowledge regarding electronics and cables as you and I.

Out of 10 of the cheapest USB-C cable you will find on Amazon, at least a quarter of them will not be able support the rated power.

Perfect world? It's not long ago USB-IF changed the minimum requirements for usb c to USB C cables.

Any cable intentionally not fulfilling the requirements are illegal counterfeits.

 

[BaldiMac]

You should read the document I pinned with the comment. Both are of concern for different reasons

Sure, you post a bunch of stuff about chargers in response to a comment about cables, but I should have read more. Perhaps you stop spamming your posts with irrelevant pictures.

 

[tripsync]

They aren't, the commission is the one who did it as they are the experts. And yes they are allowed to target a single company.

Nope. Targeting Apple gives Apple ammo to challenge the law in the higher courts stating it goes against fair competition.

But Apple isn't the only holdout. There are plenty of phones and devices that still use micro USB or proprietary charging protocols that forces users to only use the manufacturers EPS.

only hold out that matters anyways. had apple use usb-c 10 years ago, EU wouldn't be spending so much time on this issue for a small number of devices.

Apple is actually using USB-PD.

don't see the relevancy in bringing this up.

No they aren't a gas car can't be electric. That would be an electric vehicle unless you mean.

so like gasoline cars can't use diesel. that would be a diesel vehicle.

The vast majority of u citizens want it as demonstrated .

vast majority asking for a single feature doesn't mean a law should be enacted to get that single feature.

i bet you a vast majority is asking for removal of popups (including the cookie popups that EU caused). will the EU ban that?

And do you know if EU is against people advocating to have the ability to use Google assistant on their Alexa devises?

i don't see any drafts asking for it. also digital assistants on device came before lightning port too.

That makes zero sence. Or you mean cars must be electric and Banning combustion engine cars?

same question to you "or you mean gasoline cars must be diesel cars?"

It is as its their market. It's not EU's problem that Apple wants customers to spend more money on MagSafe. If Apple sells less acesories or not isn't relevant to them

EU's law is going against fair competition, something that Apple can argue should they challenge this.

In what way? MagSafe is an open standard to use. A USB c or lighting port iPhone will charge the same

People spending money on stockpiling USB-C cables instead of spending that money on Qi/MagSafe chargers.

USB-IF cables are the minimum. All companies seeking to use the USB-IF logos on their product must have a valid USB-IF Trademark License Agreement on file with the USB-IF and the product must be certified

You said "the minimum usb c to USB C cable standard is equivalent"
you're changing the argument to "the minimum USB-IF USB-C" cable now.

not every official USB-C cable from every major phone manufacturer produced from day 1 is USB-IF certified. all official Apple lightning cables were certified from day 1.

So apple can't invent a new protocol or port? Apple seem to have been competitive despite a less capable port.

again, we're discussing competitive advantage. If everyone has the same competitive advantage, it's not an advantage.

The data shows otherwise.

The turnover of worldwide industries decreases of 350 million EUR yearly while option 5 is expected to have a positive impact on EU industries turnover of 22 million EUR yearly and a positive impact on distributors and retailers turnover of 457 million EUR yearly;

 The gain to consumers will be 246 million EUR yearly;

 The material use decreases by 2 606 tonnes less yearly, the e-waste decreases by
980 tonnes yearly and GHG emissions decreases by 184 ktCO2 yearly.

Either you didn't understand what I mean about accelerated death of cables not happening overnight or you just argued against yourself about the death of cables not being accelerated.

Yes..? So people won't throw their USB-c cables in the trash when the iphone goes portles because everything else still uses Usb-c for charging and data.

100% wrong. Plenty of people don't live on many electronic devices that use usb-c but even if they did, current USB-C cable Apple sells is USB2.0/100W. Some USB-C cables are 2.0/60W. Laptops are going 140W. Some SSD drives are too slow with USB2.0 cables. When iPhone goes portless, they'll check their drawer and figure out which ones to throw out so they don't get confused on knowing which cable to use for different devices.

Only iPhones and some apple products use the lightning port. With the exception with some neat powerbanks, such a shame really it ended up as firewire. View attachment 2200036

My Razer gaming controller case uses lightning. So do a variety of other devices.

How is it not illogical to remove anything not using USB-c?

For the many reasons I've been discussing...?

I mean a policy don't need to cover everything if it's deemed unnecessary.

I did mention a reduction, never said 100%

 

[gaximus]

Why do you think that? We had micro USB and now we have USB-C replacing it. Even tho micro usb was mandatory before.

If Micro USB was mandatory before, how was Apple ever able to release the Lightning port?

 

[tripsync]

Considering Watch and iPhone can't even use the same MagSafe adapter, I think we're a long way off from that.

seems like they solved that with AirPower, but couldn't solve the heat issue in a green way (without use of fans).

 

[tripsync]

…as is the “not MFi certified” error message, depending on its wording.

Context is using usb-c cables you got from other major companies and you shoved it in the drawer.

Apple's USB-C cable on my Oculus Quest pops up an error message saying the cable is not fast enough to run Oculus Link.
I plugged in an Anker usb3.0 usb-c and even still Oculus Quest complains it's not fast enough. from the time I researched, they only recommended 1 particular anker cable and the official one they sold.

All official lightning cables I got worked 100% of the time to do the job I expected it to do since iPhone 5 days.

It's rocket science so to speak.

 

[jlc1978]

I think you should read again. 500Gb was just the worst case.

Bellow i had example of time transferring 20Gb of music. For comparison USB 3 would be done in 1min<

from clicking to sync button to > sync completed , in itunes , 20GB's of misc MP3's20GB's in 17m34s or about 19.04MB/s via USB cable20GB's in 52m53s or about 6.2MB/s via AC wifi 3X slower than USB2 speeds?!

Your example reinforces my comment - most user rarely transfer that much data at once, for example they might load 20Megs of music but after that only a few songs at at time. For the initial load, 15 or 60 minutes is not that significant of a time delta to be an issue; especially since wireless can continue in the background while you use the phone rather than tying you to a cable for 15 minutes.

Wireless may be slower but it allows you to move around and use the phone while it does its job. You don't need too be tethered to a computer.

I suspect, given the move toward cloud based services and streaming, we may see portliness iPhones and Android phones in the not too distant future. That would be one way to segment the Pro Models which would have a port and the others no port and all wireless. I think charging speed limitations, rather than data transfer speeds, is the real block to its adoption.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

EU gave us GDPR/cookie popups. Intention is good, but 99% of the people are annoyed by it. The way they go about execution is so bad. So forgive me if being prolific is not proof of knowing what they're doing.

Indeed and it was corrected afterwards to have no to everything.

Consumers want to be able to buy a playstation game and be able to play on the Xbox too.
Consumers want to be able to swap out alexa for google assistant too.
Consumers want to be able to use CarPlay in Teslas too

Doesn't mean we should enact laws to force companies to do whatever we want.

Completely depends on the impact of the market, on stakeholders and consumers etc.

There are criteria for it. It's not random.
But at least try to use somthing actually possible. Xbox and PlayStation are incompatible.
But for EU, they aren't relevant or big enough to do anything and they don't care for interoperability but competition. As stated in the Digital markets act.

The gatekeeper shall allow and technically enable end users to easily change default settings on the operating system, virtual assistant and web browser of the gatekeeper that direct or steer end users to products or services provided by the gatekeeper.​

USB-C was at 2% at one point. Your point? I said growing adoption for a reason.

It's not at 2% marketshare but 2% of users use wireless charging.

Subjective. I think MagSafe is better at charging. So what then? Stalemate. Irrelevant point to bring up what you think is better.

It's not subjective when you can have objective criteria. A cable charges faster, is more efficent.
A USB c to magsafe vs usb c to usbc/lightning.

All the more reason to keep lightning port as removing the cable from the box is more environmentally friendly and people can continue using lightning.

It's not mor environmentally friendly. And consumers find it inconvenient not to have the same port as their family members even.

"or will"
so you see the point of "growing adoption". see above about growing adoption point.

It's not growing adoption, it's by getting things that already have it.

I said 800MB. "MB" means megabytes. "Mb" is Megabits. I transferred an 800MB file. You completely misunderstood.

Irrelevant in context of speed.

It's completly relevant. Airdrop speeds aren't available on windows and you can expect an abysmaly slow speeds

I can finish airdropping a file from getting out of my car on my way too my room before you even grab your USB-C cable to plugin to wait for Finder to recognize the phone.

Very good for you but 90%+ can't airdrop anything because they have a windows computer.

And I would transfer files to my phone long before your airdrop finished if I had USB 3. Imagine having both at the same time so you can use the one most suitable at the moment.

Accelerated death means more average cables consumed per user in their lifetime compared to not having this law.



Nope. Plenty will actually. Just because you have hundreds of USB-C devices doesn't mean a 80 year old would keep it if iPhone went portless.

And Nether does the opposite, but at least I have data supporting that. 38% is reused and 35% is just stored in a box somewhere.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

If Micro USB was mandatory before, how was Apple ever able to release the Lightning port?

You where allowed to have an adapter if it was included in the purchase.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Your example reinforces my comment - most user rarely transfer that much data at once, for example they might load 20Megs of music but after that only a few songs at at time. For the initial load, 15 or 60 minutes is not that significant of a time delta to be an issue; especially since wireless can continue in the background while you use the phone rather than tying you to a cable for 15 minutes.

That's the thing, we are forced to be glued to the computer for 15min because it's so slow.

Instead people would be able to in practice instantaneously transfer it so they could use their phone in the garden or go out. You are still tethered to your location if it's over wifi. It's an inconvenience that shouldn't even exist.

Wireless may be slower but it allows you to move around and use the phone while it does its job. You don't need too be tethered to a computer.

And a faster port would make you just as free. The amount of time it takes for you to transfer the files and get out of the chair it could be done.

Going on a trip and forgot moving 200gb of movies, instead of hours it would be minutes

I suspect, given the move toward cloud based services and streaming, we may see portliness iPhones and Android phones in the not too distant future. That would be one way to segment the Pro Models which would have a port and the others no port and all wireless. I think charging speed limitations, rather than data transfer speeds, is the real block to its adoption.

Charging speed yes, and absolutely data speeds as Thera no good ability to transfer speed wirelessy as a windows user.

 

[BaldiMac]

It's not at 2% marketshare but 2% of users use wireless charging.

Source?

It's not subjective when you can have objective criteria. A cable charges faster, is more efficent.
A USB c to magsafe vs usb c to usbc/lightning.

The criteria you choose are subjective. I don't care about speed when I never have to plug my device in. And I don't care about efficiency when we are talking about less than $1/year in electricity.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Sure, you post a bunch of stuff about chargers in response to a comment about cables, but I should have read more. Perhaps you stop spamming your posts with irrelevant pictures.

Then read the text instead of complaining and making things up of what you think.

Nope. Targeting Apple gives Apple ammo to challenge the law in the higher courts stating it goes against fair competition.

Good luck as its fully legal as far as I can find.

only hold out that matters anyways. had apple use usb-c 10 years ago, EU wouldn't be spending so much time on this issue for a small number of devices.

Unlikely unless all peripherals stopped using micro usb. But har to say.

vast majority asking for a single feature doesn't mean a law should be enacted to get that single feature.

Indeed, but it's not a single feature now is it.

i bet you a vast majority is asking for removal of popups (including the cookie popups that EU caused). will the EU ban that?

Yes, hence they have changed it just a few months ago I think. And should go in to effect in August. The digital service act.

i don't see any drafts asking for it. also digital assistants on device came before lightning port too.

Well the Digital market act was passed last year so they already did. It's the same draft about allowing third party stores.

EU's law is going against fair competition, something that Apple can argue should they challenge this.

It's not going against it. So good luck for apple to argue in the supreme court. Multiple laws target specific companies as they are mentioned in the legislation.

But the again it's also rare for an illegal law to be passed.

People spending money on stockpiling USB-C cables instead of spending that money on Qi/MagSafe chargers.

That they will... Have to throw away anyway as it becomes better. At least qi/magsafe is universal.

You said "the minimum usb c to USB C cable standard is equivalent"
you're changing the argument to "the minimum USB-IF USB-C" cable now.

not every official USB-C cable from every major phone manufacturer produced from day 1 is USB-IF certified. all official Apple lightning cables were certified from day 1.

Yes they are. Example apples lightning cables aren't an usb cable as its a priority protocol shaped like their port.

The problem is saying usb c and usb c Is the same meaning colloquialy. Usb-c is just a shape of a port and not the protocol

again, we're discussing competitive advantage. If everyone has the same competitive advantage, it's not an advantage.

It's just a level playing field. They can still innovate.

Either you didn't understand what I mean about accelerated death of cables not happening overnight or you just argued against yourself about the death of cables not being accelerated.

I did, the data puts that it takes about 10 years for all cables to be removed from the last year of release.

100% wrong. Plenty of people don't live on many electronic devices that use usb-c but even if they did, current USB-C cable Apple sells is USB2.0/100W. Some USB-C cables are 2.0/60W. Laptops are going 140W. Some SSD drives are too slow with USB2.0 cables. When iPhone goes portless, they'll check their drawer and figure out which ones to throw out so they don't get confused on knowing which cable to use for different devices.

Or perhaps not. Seems like lightning cables break more than

My Razer gaming controller case uses lightning. So do a variety of other devices.

The vast minority tho.

For the many reasons I've been discussing...?

That are completely arbitrary. Considering things that uses other ports tend to be Computers and no problem exist to fix.

I did mention a reduction, never said 100%

And they Are a lower number than you for its deemed more convenient as a compromise for the market.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Subjective. I think MagSafe is better at charging.

USB-C is objectively and measurably more efficient at charging.

Apple's **conception** of what is perfect does not necessarily mean what is actually perfect or at least what is perfect to you.

Achieving USB2 speeds topping out at 480Mbps doesn't make a USB cable "ideal for transferring data" in 2023 by anyone's conception. If you want to keep trolling semantics on that, feel free - but I won't be dignifying it with any response.

Apple's marketing of a cable is off topic. Agree to disagree.

It's very on-topic when you're criticising the USB-C standard for its "cable confusion", the EU for "not knowing what they're doing", their regulation for preventing Apple from "inventing superior technology".

Apple is misleadingly advertising inferior cables (which are limited to USB2 speeds as introduced on Macs 20 years ago) as "ideal for data transfers". They are demonstrably not only failing to reduce the very confusion you're criticising - they're actively adding to it. The very company we're talking about here egregiously fails at addressing the the cable confusion confusion you're using as an argument here.

👉 That's why your arguments just don't add up.

All official lightning cables I got worked 100% of the time to do the job I expected it to do since iPhone 5 days.

...at USB 2.0 speeds.

So do USB cables at 2.0 speeds from 20 years ago.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Source?

Yes right in the impact assessment document.

The criteria you choose are subjective. I don't care about speed when I never have to plug my device in. And I don't care about efficiency when we are talking about less than $1/year in electricity.

How are they subjective? It's their technical stats. It's only subjective what's important to you.

 

[tripsync]

Indeed and it was corrected afterwards to have no to everything.

What was corrected? We're still seeing an annoying one popup for every major website.

Completely depends on the impact of the market, on stakeholders and consumers etc.

Consumers were never asked:
"Would you go from lightning, to usb-c for 3 years, to portless
or
lightning for 3 more years, to portless"

But at least try to use somthing actually possible. Xbox and PlayStation are incompatible.

100% wrong. It is possible. They're virtually the same hardware with small differences (higher CPU clock speed on one with a bit more CU on GPU). Target the less performant of the two systems and it's trivial to create a PS5 version working on the Xbox console. They're literally just boxes with PC hardware inside.

But for EU, they aren't relevant or big enough to do anything and they don't care for interoperability but competition. As stated in the Digital markets act.

Not big enough? Video games represent €23 billion revenue in EU in 2020. Pretty sure that exceeds lightning cable sales for decades.

The gatekeeper shall allow and technically enable end users to easily change default settings on the operating system, virtual assistant and web browser of the gatekeeper that direct or steer end users to products or services provided by the gatekeeper.​

So...still alexa stuck in my echo devices, right?

It's not at 2% marketshare but 2% of users use wireless charging.

"was...at one point" is the keyphrase

It's not subjective when you can have objective criteria. A cable charges faster, is more efficent.

for one, you didn't even give the criteria, you just said it's "better" and that's subjective. for me, cable is less convenient.
- i can pick up my phone, do some micro interaction, and drop it 10 times in a span of 15 minutes without tugging on a cable.
- when i get in my car, i just place it on the holder without needing to fiddle with a cable to top off my phone
- my coffee shop has wireless built right into the table, i can just leave my phone on the table to top off
- Oh and there was that malware warning from using shared cables https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/10/fbi-malware-public-usb-port-warning/

so again, it's subjective.

It's not mor environmentally friendly.

disagreed.

And consumers find it inconvenient not to have the same port as their family members even.

And what happens when iPhone goes portless? EU going to step in and force them to add the port back?

It's not growing adoption, it's by getting things that already have it.

"or will when 100% of everything else uses it" = adoption

It's completly relevant. Airdrop speeds aren't available on windows and you can expect an abysmaly slow speeds

You used speed as a counter argument. You can't use lack of availability to support the slow speed argument.

Very good for you but 90%+ can't airdrop anything because they have a windows computer.

again we're talking speed to copy a file.

And I would transfer files to my phone long before your airdrop finished if I had USB 3. Imagine having both at the same time so you can use the one most suitable at the moment.

? I can airdrop from my Mac to my iPhone. the problem with over a cable is you have to navigate where you drop your file before you can start copying. airdrop however can begin transfer and then decide where the file lives. so while you're too busy looking for the app to transfer the file to, i've finished changing clothes, shaving, and having breakfast. then when i'm free, i grab my phone head out the door and tap the app of where i want to open in before i get in my car.


and wifi speeds get even faster over time with new hardware. nonissue.

And Nether does the opposite, but at least I have data supporting that. 38% is reused and 35% is just stored in a box somewhere.
View attachment 2200319

You said nobody will throw away USB-C after going portless. I'm simply pointing out many will.

 

[tripsync]

Good luck as its fully legal as far as I can find.

EUR-Lex - 12008E018 - EN

eur-lex.europa.eu

"Within the scope of application of the Treaties, and without prejudice to any special provisions contained therein, any discrimination on grounds of nationality shall be prohibited."

This means that citizens and companies cannot be treated differently or unfairly based on their nationality or country of origin.

Apple can argue because they are an American company, EU is discriminating and singling them out.

Good luck defending that.

Unlikely unless all peripherals stopped using micro usb. But har to say.

you even argued earlier that EU wouldn't bother with video games if it's a small matter (which I disagree, video games is a big market). small amount of peripherals wouldn't be looked at, from your reasoning.

i think that's a bit hypocritical.

Indeed, but it's not a single feature now is it.

a port is 1 feature

Yes, hence they have changed it just a few months ago I think. And should go in to effect in August. The digital service act.

sorry, are you saying all websites are banned from using any form of popups? this is news to me.

Well the Digital market act was passed last year so they already did. It's the same draft about allowing third party stores.

"A core platform service provider may be designated as a “gatekeeper” if it: (a) has a significant impact on the internal market; (b) is an important gateway for business users to reach end users; and (c) enjoys an entrenched and durable position now or is likely to do so in the near future. "

Echo to me doesn't fit that bill as amount of business transactions it does is minimal (or at least not important)

It's not going against it.

Disagreed.

Have to throw away anyway as it becomes better

Sounds like lightning is more environmentally friendly as the spec hasn't changed since iPhone 5 and functions today just like it did in 2012.

Yes they are.

Nope. Not every single USB-C to USB-C cable shipped with a major phone is USB-IF certified.

Example apples lightning cables aren't an usb cable as its a priority protocol shaped like their port.

I have no clue what you're trying to say here. We're talking about USB-IF certification in regards to USB-C cable.

The problem is saying usb c and usb c Is the same meaning colloquialy. Usb-c is just a shape of a port and not the protocol

We're talking about the "minimum USB-C cable" as you put it. The minimum is not USB-IF certified. Major phone manufacturers shipped USB-C cables without USB-IF certification. So USB-C is not minimally better than lightning.

It's just a level playing field. They can still innovate.

level playing field means no competitive advantage.

I did, the data puts that it takes about 10 years for all cables to be removed from the last year of release.

Are you saying death is accelerated or not accelerated by this law? Hard to tell since you seemingly (at least how I understood it) gave both arguments.

Or perhaps not. Seems like lightning cables break more than

Screenshot has nothing to do with people throwing out cables after iPhones go portless...? Have no idea what you're trying to point out here.

The vast minority tho.

Vast minority tho what?

That are completely arbitrary. Considering things that uses other ports tend to be Computers and no problem exist to fix.

Your answers are getting more and more ambiguous. I have no idea what you're saying here.

And they Are a lower number than you for its deemed more convenient as a compromise for the market.

I read it twice and really can't understand this statement.

 

[tripsync]

USB-C is objectively and measurably more efficient at charging.

One metric doesn't make it "better" in general. look at the whole package.

Achieving USB2 speeds topping out at 480Mbps doesn't make a USB cable "ideal for transferring data" in 2023 by anyone's conception. If you want to keep trolling semantics on that, feel free - but I won't be dignifying it with any response.

"ideal for charging, syncing, and transferring data"
sounds like you forgot to read that keyword. again, it's the whole package. design/price and what tasks it's used for.

call me a troll? going to end it here with you. have a good one.

hilarious you're accusing me of "trolling semantics" when you had to bring out the dictionary.

 

[AppliedMicro]

That doesn't make it "better" in general.

A physical Lightning connection isn't only much more energy-efficient.
It will also charge iPhones much faster - despite being being about 8 years older than MagSafe (for iPhones).
And Lightning connectors and cables are also much smaller, having a lower environmental footprint.

And all of them are true for USB-C charging as well.
Call it "subjective" all you want, but USB-C charging is objectively better than MagSafe in the relevant dimensions measurable.
All of them, really - except of course the convenience and safety aspect of being able to detach more easily.
Still doesn't mean it's "better at charging" as you stated - it's just allows for safer physical handling of the device.

call me a troll?

Not calling you that.
But your arguing that "ideal does not mean best", "Apple's conception of what is perfect does not necessarily mean what is actually perfect" and the semantics of the "keyword 'and'" clearly leads to nowhere. Not a serious discussion at least.

"This 2-meter charge cable (...) is ideal for charging, syncing, and transferring data between USB-C devices"

👉 "And", preceded by a serial comma, is clearly a coordinating conjunction in that sentence, connecting three "equal" things in (as in "ideal for charging, ideal for syncing, and ideal for transferring data"). And that makes it a misleading statement.

 

[bsolar]

Apple can argue because they are an American company, EU is discriminating and singling them out.

Good luck defending that.

There is no discrimination in the directive based on nationality that says Apple needs to follow a different set of rules than EU companies. If you disagree with this please cite the relevant part of the directive that singles out Apple or foreign companies and unfairly negatively affects them.

To have the kind of discrimination you suggest is not enough to be a foreign company and be adversely affected: Apple would need to prove that they are being adversely affected because they are a foreign company. That's not what the directive does.

 

[Philip_S]

Perhaps Apple could agree to an outside standards body that certifies cables. You don't want to be running that much current through a cheep cable. At the same time, I understand why the EU does not want Apple to have a monopoly.

Yes, there could be some sort of forum for companies implementing the USB standard that could define some kind of standard for a chip to control the connection and specify the capabilities of the cable.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

EUR-Lex - 12008E018 - EN

eur-lex.europa.eu

"Within the scope of application of the Treaties, and without prejudice to any special provisions contained therein, any discrimination on grounds of nationality shall be prohibited."

This means that citizens and companies cannot be treated differently or unfairly based on their nationality or country of origin.

Apple can argue because they are an American company, EU is discriminating and singling them out.

Good luck defending that.

Good luck arguing that in court without being laughed at. Apple and every other company isn't targeted for their nationality. They are targeted exactly for what they do.

And secondly this provision is only applicable to citizens and not companies

you even argued earlier that EU wouldn't bother with video games if it's a small matter (which I disagree, video games is a big market). small amount of peripherals wouldn't be looked at, from your reasoning.

i think that's a bit hypocritical.

Compared to the amount of usb cables sold a year... Yes it's not a big market. Very few customers and few corporate customeds are active in it. The EU commission's jobb is to manage the market. They are elected by parlament to do that.

And it's not my reasoning, Thera multiple inatancess

a port is 1 feature



sorry, are you saying all websites are banned from using any form of popups? this is news to me.

No they have changed how it's formed to become less annoying. Because companies must still by law ask for consent to store information about you.

"A core platform service provider may be designated as a “gatekeeper” if it: (a) has a significant impact on the internal market; (b) is an important gateway for business users to reach end users; and (c) enjoys an entrenched and durable position now or is likely to do so in the near future. "

Echo to me doesn't fit that bill as amount of business transactions it does is minimal (or at least not important)

Echo is owned and managed by Amazon. Amazon is a gatekeeper.
Minimum requirements:
75 billion a year in EU
45 million monthly active users in EU
10.000 yearly business users in EU

Disagreed.

Can you point out a single thing proving that? France had a tax that specifically targeted apple, Google, Facebook and Amazon for failure to pay taxes in France as they abuse tax haven in Ireland.

Sounds like lightning is more environmentally friendly as the spec hasn't changed since iPhone 5 and functions today just like it did in 2012.
Nope. Not every single USB-C to USB-C cable shipped with a major phone is USB-IF certified.

It's not about the specs.

I have no clue what you're trying to say here. We're talking about USB-IF certification in regards to USB-C cable.

We're talking about the "minimum USB-C cable" as you put it. The minimum is not USB-IF certified. Major phone manufacturers shipped USB-C cables without USB-IF certification. So USB-C is not minimally better than lightning.

A shipped cable is USB-IF certified. They aren't shipping fake products. The minimum usb c cable is a verified. Anything less than that isn't a USB cable and aren't allowed to be sold as such.

It's as asinine to say the minimum MFi cable is a lightning cable without beings certified because it's sold as one. Both are illegal and considered counterfeits that gets confiscated and destroying in customs if caught

level playing field means no competitive advantage.

No it means the rules are the same and

Are you saying death is accelerated or not accelerated by this law? Hard to tell since you seemingly (at least how I understood it) gave both arguments.

I'm saying death is accelerated but the number of cables aren't. The end result is fewer cables are needed to do the same job. Even magsafe can be used for everything instead of being one phone brand specific.

Screenshot has nothing to do with people throwing out cables after iPhones go portless...? Have no idea what you're trying to point out here.

It does as I showed further up. 80%~ don't throw cables away. They just store it or give it away

Vast minority tho what?

To usb peripherals

Your answers are getting more and more ambiguous. I have no idea what you're saying here.

The only point it make sence to have one cable is for devices with only one port. Aka small devices. It makes zero sence to remove other ports such as magsafe on macs, hdmi or surface pro magnetic charger etc.

I read it twice and really can't understand this statement.

The number of cables, e waste, consumer convenience etc has a completly difrent numerical goal that you. They had 5 options that went up for vote. They don't have the goal to make everything usb c, and that is why they don't go as far as you in your arbitrary rexamples.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

What was corrected? We're still seeing an annoying one popup for every major website.

The need to click more than once to deny them your information. Concent is legally required. But if you press yes on everything it won't return

Consumers were never asked:
"Would you go from lightning, to usb-c for 3 years, to portless
or
lightning for 3 more years, to portless"

Impossible question. It can easily be 5 or 10 years as well. It's speculating on no data but rumors.

100% wrong. It is possible. They're virtually the same hardware with small differences (higher CPU clock speed on one with a bit more CU on GPU). Target the less performant of the two systems and it's trivial to create a PS5 version working on the Xbox console. They're literally just boxes with PC hardware inside.

No they aren't virtually the same. Look at games done on both platforms are constructed very difrently.

Not even Xbox games and PC games are similar even tho they have less difrences.
Intel Mac and Intel windows and Intel Ubuntu isn't compatible.

Arm windows and arm Mac isn't compatible on any level. The maximum they can ask for is allowing third party solutions to be developed and that's it. IPhone will be forced to allow third party stores to be installed, but not android apps as that doesn't work or make sence.

Not big enough? Video games represent €23 billion revenue in EU in 2020. Pretty sure that exceeds lightning cable sales for decades.

For Xbox to be considered a gatekeeper it one must have more than 75 billion in revenue, 45 million consumers and 10.000 companies they work with.

The fact Playstation and Xbox together don't even scratch 30 billion makes them irrelevant. IPhones blow that out of the waters.

So...still alexa stuck in my echo devices, right?

Will se in August. Very likely you will have the ability to use a third party virtual assistant depending on how smart speakers are interpreted.

for one, you didn't even give the criteria, you just said it's "better" and that's subjective. for me, cable is less convenient.
- i can pick up my phone, do some micro interaction, and drop it 10 times in a span of 15 minutes without tugging on a cable.
- when i get in my car, i just place it on the holder without needing to fiddle with a cable to top off my phone
- my coffee shop has wireless built right into the table, i can just leave my phone on the table to top off
- Oh and there was that malware warning from using shared cables https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/10/fbi-malware-public-usb-port-warning/

so again, it's subjective.

Again that's just consumer interaction.
And not the technical specifications of the things.

disagreed.

Literally just your opinion. Do you have data backing it up?

And what happens when iPhone goes portless? EU going to step in and force them to add the port back?

Read the legislation and you will know. Perhaps everyone else will be forced to go portles.

You used speed as a counter argument. You can't use lack of availability to support the slow speed argument.

again we're talking speed to copy a file.

? I can airdrop from my Mac to my iPhone. the problem with over a cable is you have to navigate where you drop your file before you can start copying. airdrop however can begin transfer and then decide where the file lives. so while you're too busy looking for the app to transfer the file to, i've finished changing clothes, shaving, and having breakfast. then when i'm free, i grab my phone head out the door and tap the app of where i want to open in before i get in my car.

This is an artificial problem because it uses usb 2.0(2000) If It used usb 3(2008) or actually current technology I could drop my entire movie catalogue in iTunes and it would finish in a few minutes and be done before you leave the room.
You would still eat your second breakfast for it to finish.

And lack of availability is absolutely an argument if nobody can use it. And wifi syncing is horrendously slow

and wifi speeds get even faster over time with new hardware. nonissue.

Over time? Shall I become retired before wifi is usable? Wifi 6 that the latest iPhone have curently is the same theoreticall speed as usb 3.0 that have existed since the iphone was invented.

It took only 13 iPhone models to get wireless usb 3 speeds.

You said nobody will throw away USB-C after going portless. I'm simply pointing out many will.

And as I showed just about nobody will.
Up iPhone goes portles you understand every lightning cable will become useless alongside magsafe cables. Becomes nothing else can use it with the exception of a few items.

If iPhone uses USB-C the cable doesn't become useless because everything else can use it. Like your computer or ipdad and camera etc etc.

 

[gaximus]

You where allowed to have an adapter if it was included in the purchase.

So that's a huge difference, the new law doesn't allow for any port, as long as it come with an adapter. The new law says the device has to have that port. So it becomes a chicken and egg situation where they won't update the law until enough devices have the new "USB-D" port and no manufacture is going to create or design a "USB-D" port until they have a law that supports it. Did they remove the current Micro USB law, or are all new USB-C phones currently having to ship with adapters with them? or was there an overlap where you would get a new phone with USB-C and have a MicroUSB adapter? (Just curious)

 

[AppliedMicro]

Yes, there could be some sort of forum for companies implementing the USB standard that could define some kind of standard for a chip to control the connection and specify the capabilities of the cable.

Electronic marking is already part of the USB Type-C spec.