European Commission Moves Forward on Micro-USB Smartphone Charging Standard

[OrganMusic]

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I'm all for USB as a common standard power connector, what burns me is that we have to have both mini USB and micro USB which are almost the same size and look almost identical to the non technical.

 

[makingdots]

JOBS MOVE:

NO iPhones/iPads shipments to europe anymore.

who's the boss?

Do you really think Jobs is stupid enough to give up billions in profits rather than add a simple in-line adaptor to the USB to dock cable?

Doubtful.

Many Apple products have been changed to comply with different regulations around the world.

I can hear him say to a customer ranting about it,
"BLAME YOUR CONTINENT COMMISSION"

haha

 

[Rodimus Prime]

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I'm all for USB as a common standard power connector, what burns me is that we have to have both mini USB and micro USB which are almost the same size and look almost identical to the non technical.

Mini USB is being phased out because of problems with the rather limited life of hte port compared to microUSB. Micro can take more uses. Since say earily 2010 all the manufactures on the agree list minus Apple has used Micro USB for charging on any new phone they release. Others were already going that way before hand.

 

[JAT]

I shall start with a list.
From this site posted in Jul 09
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/735369/

Article it is talking about http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE55S1XZ20090629

from the article.....


Now that was the easy one to find. But back in 2009 when this was going on I did some other digging and it turns out it was the manufactures who went to the government. But for finding that you are on your own. Finding something from 1.5 years ago is very difficult on this subject.

See, that's my point.

said the EU executive, which has pushed for such a deal. ...
European initiative

The Reuters story says the EU pushed for this. I have yet to see something that says this was backed by the mfgrs ("signed" is not "backed"), who are the ones making stupid phones, like my example above. If they really wanted to use microUSB, they simply would. Instead, there had to be legislation.

 

[slattery69]

See, that's my point.

The Reuters story says the EU pushed for this. I have yet to see something that says this was backed by the mfgrs ("signed" is not "backed"), who are the ones making stupid phones, like my example above. If they really wanted to use microUSB, they simply would. Instead, there had to be legislation.

alot of phone makers have moved across to this rim, nokia sony ericsson htc etc.
im sure they would love one standard, they can stop supplying chargers after a certain time scale or offer it as an extra , in both ways they make money. look at apple sold what 4million iphone 4 image if everyone of them didnt come with a charger how much extra profit theyd make

 

[Xtremehkr]

These are the benefits derived from Europe's new regulations.

1. Conformity amongst phones and chargers. You should be able to use any chord with any phone, otherwise there isn't much point. Apple may require a dongle but that will impact them negatively. Every other brand of phone should be able to use the Apple chord. Imagine the benefits from being able to use anyone else's chord if you forget your own.

2. This will lead to a huge reduction in waste. Every time a company upgrades its work phones it will no longer need to replace every cable. You will have spare chords now, which means that fewer will need to be purchased as chords are lost or broken. The reduction in e-waste, which is costlier to dispose of, leads to a reduction in the cost of waste management. A reduction in the cost of waste management paid with using tax dollars.

3. Manufacturers now have one fewer component to worry about, there is a standard now. New designs will use the same chord until a new standard is set. The reduces the need to spend time and money designing new chords and smoothing out new manufacturing bumps. Efficiency for manufacturers is improved.

Not all Americans believe that just because the government got involved the outcome is not going to be desirable. The benefits probably go beyond that, I haven't read the entire proposal. What is evident is that the benefits that are there clearly make improvements all around.

It's just immaturity to think that government intervention of any kind is always going to be negative. It ignores so much of what is already in existence.

 

[Ries]

Exactly. Apparently they have nothing better to do in Europe than to worry about how a phone charges. Stupid, but whatever. Glad i'm not in Europe.

So, your neighbor runs on 176volt 10hz, another on 312volt 76hz and the third on 10v 2hz? and they all got different power connectors in their houses too? Im glad in not in USA...

 

[firestarter]

Exactly. Apparently they have nothing better to do in Europe than to worry about how a phone charges. Stupid, but whatever. Glad i'm not in Europe.

We have to find something to do with all our extra vacation time and years better life expectancy...

 

[goobot]

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Not much of a positive. It can lead to new phones not having chargers and I do not wana have to buy a new one when the one I will be forced to use 1000ands of times breaks. Plus I like to have charging stations and a seperate wire for syncing for my phone. And when I go away and loose a wire a still have my new one.

 

[Lennholm]

The agreement linked in the news is old and confusing, it has been updated...

Apple has always been compliant with the agreement; because it is not about port, but charger, there are 2 possibilities :

1. give a usb charger + an usb to the port you want cable
2. give a micro usb charger

Apple solution is number 1, and have been compliant for years.

Please read the agreement, it has been updated, and it is more technical and precise :

You are wrong sir, Apples solution is not compliant since their devices can not be charged by a charger that ends in a Micro USB plug.
The idea is that all you should need to charge every one of your mobile devices is one power source that supplies power by Micro USB, and such a power supply can't be used with current Apple devices.

Furthermore, the standard says that provided power supplies that have a removeable cable, like the Apple USB Power adapter, should have a standard USB connection where the cable connects to the power supply, just like the Apple USB Power adapter has. But it still says that the other end of this cable shall be a micro USB plug, which the Apple USB power adapter does not, it has 30-pin dock plug.

In other words, the standard says that we should be able to use one of those cables with a standard USB plug in one end and a micro USB plug in the other (you know, those cables most of us have tons of lying around from various external hdd's, cameras etc.) and plug the micro USB end into our mobile device and the other end, the standard USB plug, either straight into a computer or into one of those standard compliant power supplies.

So, the standard does outline how any bundled power supplies should be configured but the whole point of the standard is that all mobile devices should be able to accept a micro USB plug for charging

 

[gorjan]

We have to find something to do with all our extra vacation time and years better life expectancy...

Ssshhhh... It's much better working all day till 7-8PM all your life and enjoying those three-four awake hours with your partner and kids, and loosing all your pension when the stocks plummet when you're 70.

I don't see the problem. How is a standardized charger a bad thing? What about wall sockets? Should every electric company have their own proprietary sockets as well? Apple can use all the 30pin connectors they want as long as you also have the possibility to charge the phone with a 30pin->microUSB adapter.

 

[firestarter]

You are wrong sir

Look who hasn't read the original article.

Euro standards bodies have confirmed that Apple's adapter based solution is OK.

 

[FrankieTDouglas]

I just don't understand what is so wrong about having a different type of connection for different devices? They all achieve the same purpose. If you don't want to use a 30 pin connector then don't buy Apple products.

If they all achieve the same purpose, then why not use the same type of connection? Simply your life.

 

[Nomadski]

You are wrong sir, Apples solution is not compliant since their devices can not be charged by a charger that ends in a Micro USB plug.
The idea is that all you should need to charge every one of your mobile devices is one power source that supplies power by Micro USB, and such a power supply can't be used with current Apple devices.

Furthermore, the standard says that provided power supplies that have a removeable cable, like the Apple USB Power adapter, should have a standard USB connection where the cable connects to the power supply, just like the Apple USB Power adapter has. But it still says that the other end of this cable shall be a micro USB plug, which the Apple USB power adapter does not, it has 30-pin dock plug.

In other words, the standard says that we should be able to use one of those cables with a standard USB plug in one end and a micro USB plug in the other (you know, those cables most of us have tons of lying around from various external hdd's, cameras etc.) and plug the micro USB end into our mobile device and the other end, the standard USB plug, either straight into a computer or into one of those standard compliant power supplies.

So, the standard does outline how any bundled power supplies should be configured but the whole point of the standard is that all mobile devices should be able to accept a micro USB plug for charging

Good try, but despite your good attempt, and the attempt of others to get it thru to some of the knuckledraggers in this thread what this standard attempt is all about seems to be a lost cause.

How anyone can read the documentation and come to the conclusion that EU wants micro USB at the POWER (the bit that plugs into a computer or plug) side is beyond me.

Or maybe those so anti standard wouldnt mind every device using a differently shaped ethernet port, or every computer or audio device having a different audio jack connection - something phone companies like Nokia and Sony attempted (and Nokia still do with their 2.5mm jack). What great fun it would be looking for headphones!

But no, you buy a standard ethernet cable, and plug it in. You buy standard headphones and plug it in. It just works. Right?

Compact cameras all tried their own formats, now they all run on SDHC.

Cmon guys, we should have moved on from all this fragmentation

Standards are a good thing.

 

[Nomadski]

Look who hasn't read the original article.

Euro standards bodies have confirmed that Apple's adapter based solution is OK.

It gets them thru the standard in a haphazard half assed way, yes. But it defeats the whole concept of what the drives purpose is.

 

[cheekychimp]

These are the benefits derived from Europe's new regulations.

1. Conformity amongst phones and chargers. You should be able to use any chord with any phone, otherwise there isn't much point. Apple may require a dongle but that will impact them negatively. Every other brand of phone should be able to use the Apple chord. Imagine the benefits from being able to use anyone else's chord if you forget your own.

This is the main benefit for me personally. I already noticed how easy it is to be able to borrow my aunt's charger, while we always have different phones. I used to have a SE Xperia X1, while my aunt had the previous BB Bold, both using a mini USB charger. Same thing with our current phones, as both the HTC Desire and the BB Bold 9700 use a micro USB charger.

Another advantage with the chargers is that you can easily use a longer chord when needed. All I need to do is buy a longer USB cable.

 

[firestarter]

It gets them thru the standard in a haphazard half assed way, yes. But it defeats the whole concept of what the drives purpose is.

I think it's enough that everything will be compatible with a standard USB-power PSU - and supplied with a lead/adapter to facilitate this. It's not the lead that's the expensive/inconvenient bit - it's all these different-voltage power supplies.

Standard USB power opens up a whole market for extended life batteries, chargers and maybe DC power outlets in the home.

 

[Nomadski]

I think it's enough that everything will be compatible with a standard USB-power PSU - and supplied with a lead/adapter to facilitate this. It's not the lead that's the expensive/inconvenient bit - it's all these different-voltage power supplies.

Standard USB power opens up a whole market for extended life batteries, chargers and maybe DC power outlets in the home.

But I think the lead IS the inconvenient bit. Its the idea that if I go on holiday with my family, I have a suitcase with masses of different charging cables when really, it should only be one. Powermonkey make universal chargers, all you need are the different tips - there should only be ONE tip required for all mobile devices, end of.

The other end of these cables, the full sized USB, has been standard for many many years. Why not the device end? At least for charging.

This EU push relates to mobile devices, not to more power hungry devices like laptops or tablets, there's no excuse for Nokia charging £30, Blackberry charging £40 etc etc for a lead which does exactly the same thing, and should be cross compatible with other mobile devices.

 

[kiranmk2]

You are wrong sir, Apples solution is not compliant since their devices can not be charged by a charger that ends in a Micro USB plug.
The idea is that all you should need to charge every one of your mobile devices is one power source that supplies power by Micro USB, and such a power supply can't be used with current Apple devices.

Furthermore, the standard says that provided power supplies that have a removeable cable, like the Apple USB Power adapter, should have a standard USB connection where the cable connects to the power supply, just like the Apple USB Power adapter has. But it still says that the other end of this cable shall be a micro USB plug, which the Apple USB power adapter does not, it has 30-pin dock plug.

In other words, the standard says that we should be able to use one of those cables with a standard USB plug in one end and a micro USB plug in the other (you know, those cables most of us have tons of lying around from various external hdd's, cameras etc.) and plug the micro USB end into our mobile device and the other end, the standard USB plug, either straight into a computer or into one of those standard compliant power supplies.

So, the standard does outline how any bundled power supplies should be configured but the whole point of the standard is that all mobile devices should be able to accept a micro USB plug for charging

This man speaks sense.

There is so much FUD and people getting angry without knowing the facts in this thread. Funnily enough, governments don't just make up laws and mandates - they have technical advisers and liaise with technologists from the companies they want to sign up. Believe it or not, but iPhones still make up a fairly small percentage of phones sold and it's a right mess on the charger front. Samsung, LG, Nokia, HTC, Motorola and the rest all have their own chargers. We've already heard about the retarded situation where Nokia phones have a mini/microUSB for syncing and a separate cable for charging and I've come across a case where a charger with a mini-usb plug (Moto) wouldn't charge my HTC even though the charger fitted perfectly.

The only mandate will be that the <em>phone</em> end of the charging cable must be microusb. This essentially leaves the manufacturers free to decide what happens at the other end. They may decide that it's cheaper to make a charger where the cable is moulded to the mains plug/transformer or they may decide it's cheaper to have an Apple-like setup where the cable plugs into the mains plug/transformer. The benefit is, as has been mentioned before, that we produce much less waste. Thus, in a year or so manufacturers won't supply chargers with phones. This will save them money (less cost, resources, packaging etc). In practice, what the end user will see is the option to buy a charger separately when they get a new phone. Given that the chargers will be standard across brands, there will be enough competition that chargers won't be expensive, but hopefully people will be put off by any cost and will reuse their old one. As has already been pointed out, there are plenty of cables with USB A on one end and microUSB on the other out there for charging from computers/laptops/xboxes etc. Think of the other benefits. Hotels and other places will be able to provide built in charging cables in rooms and airlines will be able to offer charging cables to passengers.

For those who are crying about not getting a charger anymore - think about iPods - Apple hasn't included more than a sync cable with these for years (and don't even include iTunes with any devices anymore) and they still sell well. And to those asking what happens when USB is outdated - I don't think USB is going anywhere for a while, and it's likely to be replaced by some kind of wireless syncing - this legislation is for charging. The only thing I can see changing is a move to inductive charging (again - hopefully there will be legislation to ensure all phones use the same technology), but that needs the circuitry to shrink so battery size isn't affected

All that will happen with Apple chargers is that instead of coming as a 2-piece set of mains plug and USB-30pin cable it will come as a 3-piece set of mains plug, USB-microUSB and microUSB-30pin. When the cable is plugged into the microUSB-30pin it will basically look and function like the current USB-30pin cable. And as an added bonus, you will be able to charge other phones too.

 

[M2M]

What will happen:

+ Apple will create a 30pin Doc Connector to MicroUSB Adapter
+ Apple will provide a microUSB to USB Cable
+ one side of this cable you plug into the 30pin Doc Connector to MicroUSB Adapter and this thing you plug into your iDevice and the other side into your computer to charge and sync.

Actually it was a clever move by the EU (as I understand the MoU) to specify the microUSB part has to be at the phones side (or provided via Adapter). Why ? Because the side linking to the Computer will always be USB (at least for a long time). So you end up with micoUSB to USB Cables you can use with a lot of Phones and devices.

What I am a little concerned is how USB3 plays in the whole thing. Why ?
Because with iPhones Diskspace getting higher and higher I would love the next (presumed 64GB) iPhone to be synced over high-speed USB3. 1GB Apps, Movies, Lossless Music takes far too much time syncing over USB2.

With this EU regulation I wonder if USB3 can be allowed or not - I doubt it however

2 sides of a Coin.

 

[fabianjj]

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What are the advantages of Apple's 30pin USB over a micro-usb?

-

a MicroUSB Connector is about 40% as wide as an Apple Dock Connector but only provides less than 16.67% of the functionality

Micro USB Connection List:

1. +5 V
2. USB Data −
3. USB Data +
4. Signal Ground
5. Signal Ground

Apple Dock Connection List:

1. Ground (-)
2. Audio and Video ground (-)
3. Line Out - R (+) (Audio output, right channel)
4. Line Out - L(+) (Audio output, left channel)
5. Line In - R (+)
6. Line In - L (+)
7. unknown
8. Composite video output
9. S-Video Chrominance output
10. S-Video Luminance output
11. Serial GND
12. ipod sending line, Serial TxD
13. ipod receiving line, Serial RxD
14. NC
15. Ground (-)
16. USB GND (-)
17. NC
18. 3.3V Power (+) Stepped up to provide +5V DC to USB on iPod Camera Connector.
19. +12V Firewire Power 12V DC
20. +12V Firewire Power 12V DC
21. Accessory Indicator/Serial enable
22. FireWire Data TPA (-)
23. USB Power 5 VDC (+)
24. FireWire Data TPA (+)
25. USB Data (-)
26. FireWire Data TPB (-)
27. USB Data (+)
28. FireWire Data TPB (+)
29. FireWire Ground
30. FireWire Ground

But What do you really need to send through that wire that is not data?

Power yes I can see if it is not able to charge as fast, but everything else you can just send as data

 

[fabianjj]

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I see a lot of posts on here arguing about whether Apple's 30-pin connector is better or worse than a plain micro-usb. My question is: why not just let consumers decide which one they like better rather than forcing everyone to use the same one? Come on, it's not like it's a HUGE hassel, and more importantly, no one's rights are being violated.

My prediction is that as usual, there will be negative unintended consequences of unnecessary regulation in the form of higher costs to consumers for Apple products (and other companies who don't want to use the micro-usb connection), more chargers in landfills rather than fewer because everyone will accumulate more excess chargers, less innovation because companies are prevented from adding functionality (through higher costs) with proprietary connectors like Apple's, etc.

Basically, everyone is going to be worse off except the bureaucrats who are hired to enforce these new regulations. This kind of pettiness is not the purpose of government. Even my left-leaning friends should agree to that.

This is not about any hassle or simplicity, it is to cut down on electronic waste, not about how you or average Joe wants to charge his phone

 

[rstansby]

Excellent point. The connection still has to travel through a USB interface anyway, thus negating/neutralizing all the magical unicorn-like properties of the 30-pin connector.

Scroll up 8 posts from your own post to see a very clear answer to your question. The 30 pin dock connector offers all 5 of the USB pins, as well as 25 other pins, these other pins offer audio and video outputs etc.

 

[rstansby]

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But What do you really need to send through that wire that is not data?

Power yes I can see if it is not able to charge as fast, but everything else you can just send as data

How about the audio and video outputs, which allow the ipod to send audio to docks, and all of those speaker systems everyone loves.

 

[fabianjj]

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Here's my two cents.

If we're talking about chargers and charging, which is the idea of this EU regulation, then what's being proposed is a little backwards.

How about standardizing on the connection on the power plug instead of the one on the phone? The way apple does it is they include with every iPhone, a syncing cable that is 30-pin on one end and male-USB on the other. An included power plug has a female-USB on the one end and the appropriate electrical plug on the other end.

Since smartphones typically need to sync to a computer, let the phone manufacturers use whatever connection they want on the phone side, as long as the sync cable has a standard USB plug on the other end that can be used for charging.

That way, you can charge your phone(s) using the included USB-power plug, a USB-car adapter, the USB port on your computer, or a USB port on a powered hub.

At some point, stop including the USB-power plug with the phone. Just include a syncing cable.

What's the advantage of this? Well, it let's manufacturers innovate on the device side. For instance, Apple can then choose to design the iPhone as they see fit. They don't have to decide between an adapter in the box (very kludgy), vs. the extra space required to put a micro-USB port in addition to the 30-pin connector...

It still doesn't make sense to make the power plug be microUSB. How many computers have a microUSB port? How many have a regular USB port?

As far as I know, there's no advantage to using microUSB on the power plug, since the electric prongs are going to determine the size of the power plug anyway. Why not make it regular USB and be done with it? That way, the syncing cable (which is going to be regular USB) can be used for power/charging? Otherwise, there's gonna be two cables in the box, one for charging and one for syncing, unless you have a y-cable that has both USB plugs.

???????

Yes, yes, yes, exactly!! The micro-USB plug idea is beyond stupid!! Who gives a flying F what type of connector is on the device?

All you need is a STANDARD USB plug on the other end of the 'syncing' cable, because standard USB ports are everywhere - on every computer manufactured currently, on many existing power bricks, in auto adapters, in power strips, in boats, in planes, in hotels, in airports... You can even buy electrical outlets that include USB ports along with the regular AC receptacles.

Micro-USB on the other hand is nowhere - on millions of portable devices, yes, but not on the power supplying end - and therein lies the problem. Now what we'll have is everyone filling up landfills with old chargers as they rush to buy the new mandated micro-USB charger, plus companies supplying a myriad of adapters to make their device comply with the new connector, and all these will eventually end up in landfills.

This mandate was brain-dead from the beginning... Stupidest thing I've heard of in technology in a long, long time, perhaps ever.

You ate absolutely right no one gives a F !!
Which is exactly the reason why this king of regulation is necessary