European Consumer Groups Criticize Apple's Warranties

[emaja]

This is exactly why... certain countries want things for free, but fail to realize that nothing is free. so EU countries get free stuff while the rest of the productive world pays for it.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Apple will not bear the cost of the longer warranty. They will simply pass it along in the form of higher prices. Since Apple likes to keep global prices about the same, everyone who buys an Apple product will be sharing in the cost of that required longer warranty.

I believe this is unfair. Apple already has a perfectly acceptable one year warranty on their products. If you as the buyer want a longer warranty, they offer AppleCare+ where you choose the bear the expense of that longer warranty - including accidental breakage. I then bear the additional expense alone and Apple does not spread that cost around to everyone - even to buyers in countries like the US that do not require a longer warranty.

We've already explained that Apple is free to raise the initial purchase cost to pay for the first two years of warranty coverage. The fact that you still can't find a way to comprehend that isn't our problem. I'm so glad someone as perpetually dense as you is not on my side of the issue, or I might have to reconsider my position.

Do you really need to stoop to insults?

What is so hard to understand that if customers want a longer warranty, then they pay for it by themselves and those who do not want that extra coverage can pass on it? Who are you to decide that I must have that longer coverage and incur extra expense if I do not want it anyway?

 

[babyj]

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Apple will not bear the cost of the longer warranty. They will simply pass it along in the form of higher prices. Since Apple likes to keep global prices about the same, everyone who buys an Apple product will be sharing in the cost of that required longer warranty.

I believe this is unfair. Apple already has a perfectly acceptable one year warranty on their products. If you as the buyer want a longer warranty, they offer AppleCare+ where you choose the bear the expense of that longer warranty - including accidental breakage. I then bear the additional expense alone and Apple does not spread that cost around to everyone - even to buyers in countries like the US that do not require a longer warranty.

Why is it unfair? Apple incur varying levels of costs in every country they do business in, if they started factoring them all in it would be a mess. How about if Apple lose a class action lawsuit in the US? Who do you think pays for that? It won't be just their customers in the US.

Extending the warranty to two years isn't going to cost them much either, in terms of repairs. If it did, how comes a major UK retailer (John Lewis) can offer a two year warranty on all Apple laptops and tablets and not charge any more than Apple?

The real hit will come when Apple finally concede and give a two year warranty world wide, which will happen. The cost won't be in providing the extended warranty, it will be in the loss of all the Apple Care sales.

 

[cosmichobo]

The cost won't be in providing the extended warranty, it will be in the loss of all the Apple Care sales.

Bingo.

Ok, I don't have access to the actual figures of repairs required on products 12-24 months old, Vs the revenue raised by AppleCare (less expenses).

I certainly believe a company like Apple - head of their industry, head of their price tag - should be able to provide a product that, 99/100, will survive longer than 1 year.

If you are one of those who buy a new Mac every year, do you not sell the old product to recoupe some of the cost? So what if the product is dead after 366 days? You have to pay for the full cost, with no rebate from the old item. Are you still so keen to buy new every year?

 

[AlanFord]

@ucmj22 and emaja will never understand it. Basic thing is, that these laws are part of our "tradition". And that tradition is that country have some kind of social policy to protect people, and in this way to protect buyers to have min 2 year warranty for all products. And all people wont is that these laws are respected by Apple. No body is hiding behind guverment.
And you cant understand it, to you its normal to think in that way, to us its not.
Example, my country have medical care for all, and there are no people who can't get medical care regardless how much money they have. And its normal. To you its not, how many people die because they are poor in US. Dont have money - die. Dont have money - dont buy, Wont this - pay, or pay even more. And that is your tradition and system. You are used to it, you function in that way and its normal. And now seeing someone somewhere asking for something is some kind of a mad man in your eyes.
And you are seeing things in Europe throw your tradition, which is wrong. If you wont to understand something, you have to change the perspective.
We are two different worlds. And ok, we cant understand each other in some ways and its fine by me. Just saying that people are pansies and some kind of cowards if they wont something whats in their law is lack of tolerance and disrespect in my opinion. We have our culture and tradition in Europe, and Apple should respect it.
Earth is not USA as well.

 

[whooleytoo]

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Apple will not bear the cost of the longer warranty. They will simply pass it along in the form of higher prices. Since Apple likes to keep global prices about the same, everyone who buys an Apple product will be sharing in the cost of that required longer warranty.

I believe this is unfair. Apple already has a perfectly acceptable one year warranty on their products. If you as the buyer want a longer warranty, they offer AppleCare+ where you choose the bear the expense of that longer warranty - including accidental breakage. I then bear the additional expense alone and Apple does not spread that cost around to everyone - even to buyers in countries like the US that do not require a longer warranty.

That's an incredibly tenuous argument - you're basically suggesting every country on the planet has to enforce or allow the same warranty periods as the US, or US customers will end up paying for it.

When US prices rise as a result of this, let's talk; until then it's just conjecture.

And if that happens; you have the option of not buying. Just as US posters are saying European buyers have no right to longer warranties, we could say US buyers have no right to a fixed price.

p.s. this is all a pointless argument, everyone has already picked a 'side', and I don't think anyone is going to be convinced by this thread!

 

[northy124]

of all the laws the UK adopts from the EU I genuinely would want this one, although I admit with the Sales of Goods Act it sort of mitigates the problem.

It is adopted in the UK. EU Law is automatically for the most part applied to the UK, the two year warranty applies in the UK and Apple are normally more than happy to replace/repair within the two year mark.

 

[emaja]

@ucmj22 and emaja will never understand it. Basic thing is, that these laws are part of our "tradition".

Alan, that is a perspective that is easily understandable. Thank you for that.

I guess there is a tradition here that if you don't something you pay for it yourself.

My beef was that some posters were elevating an extended warranty to a "right." To me, a right is something much more important and basic than anything that can be applied to consumer electronics.

This is all a pointless argument, everyone has already picked a 'side', and I don't think anyone is going to be convinced by this thread!

You are right and I think I will bow out at this time. Both sides have already chosen and have their reasons.

 

[aoifeee]

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Apple will not bear the cost of the longer warranty. They will simply pass it along in the form of higher prices. Since Apple likes to keep global prices about the same, everyone who buys an Apple product will be sharing in the cost of that required longer warranty.

Europeans pay significantly more for Apple products. The prices are often the same in dollars and Euro. The Ipad starts at $399 in the US and at €399 in Europe! That's $527 so it seems only fair that the europeans at least get something extra.

 

[kevinof]

Just sent my daughters Iphone4 in for a repair (the mic stopped working). Its 18 months old. Got onto the Apple site in Ireland, filled in the page and sent it off. All covered under standard European warranty for two years.

BTW this warranty applies to all products - my fridge stopped working 1 week before the 2 years were up and Siemens fixed it for free. You don't have to prove the fault was there since purchase, only that it broke before the two years was up.

 

[cosmichobo]

My beef was that some posters were elevating an extended warranty to a "right." To me, a right is something much more important and basic than anything that can be applied to consumer electronics.

"Extended Warranty" vs mandated consumer law... This is the issue... Some countries policy makers believe in protecting their citizens, rather than following the old adage of "Caveat emptor" - buyer beware.

If you buy a product, in Australia, and evidently a majority of European countries, it is a RIGHT that the product meets a level of quality commensurate with the price.

When you buy a $50 DVD player, and it dies after 18 months, you really wouldn't complain too much. It was a cheap DVD player. But if you went out and paid $400 for a high end machine, and it died in that same period, you'd be pissed, and rightly so.

Yes, it really is a culture thing.

 

[ucmj22]

"Extended Warranty" vs mandated consumer law... This is the issue... Some countries policy makers believe in protecting their citizens, rather than following the old adage of "Caveat emptor" - buyer beware.

If you buy a product, in Australia, and evidently a majority of European countries, it is a RIGHT that the product meets a level of quality commensurate with the price.

When you buy a $50 DVD player, and it dies after 18 months, you really wouldn't complain too much. It was a cheap DVD player. But if you went out and paid $400 for a high end machine, and it died in that same period, you'd be pissed, and rightly so.

Yes, it really is a culture thing.

It is indeed a cultural disconnect that we are encountering. My biggest beef with all of this is the use of the term "right," because to me, if you lay claim to something as a right, you are claiming that if you do not have it, then you have the "right" to force someone to give it to you, and that person, or entity must do this without compensation. This, in my eyes, is akin to slavery, and weathers the fabric of liberty. Just remember, "A government big enough to give you everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...." -Thomas Jefferson

 

[cosmichobo]

...if you lay claim to something as a right, you are claiming that if you do not have it, then you have the "right" to force someone to give it to you, and that person, or entity must do this without compensation.

Apple is being compensated by the purchase of the product, and if their product lives up to expectation, the ongoing purchase of new products.

Case in point... the eMac capacitor issue...

Likely hundreds of thousands of eMacs were sold between 2004 and 2005 with bad caps. This machine was Apple's lowest of the low computers, only just opened to public sale, and still widely sold to the education market.

All the same, thousands of new-to-Apple consumers purchased this machine... and all went well for about 18 months... then they started falling like flies. The reason was known to Apple from early 2005 (as witnessed by the iMac Repair Program), but ignored until mid 2006. The machines were not failing until they reached around 18 months old - ie out of manufacturer warranty. So Apple ignored the problem.

I can tell you, as I was one of these owners, this decision turned thousands of people off buying Apple ever again. Their first taste of a Mac computer - even a low end machine, costing more than most competitor's machines - died after 18 months, with a repair bill of 1/2 - 3/4 the original cost of the computer... with little/no sympathy from Apple.

(Some individuals were offered a free repair/free labour, but for the majority, even schools with hundreds of the machines, the eMac simply became a pretty boat-anchor.)

Yes, I completely believe that any manufacturer, selling a product that costs thousands of dollars, should be selling a product that a consumer can expect to last for more than 18 months. This should be a right for any consumer, because without that trust, you simply open up the door to less reputable people taking advantage.

(And I would add... though I imagine we wont ever see any statistics, I doubt that Apple would see a huge increase in costs were they to have to cover the repair of their products for 24 months instead of 12... And if it did, I am sure that they would then spend the time to work out what was failing so quickly, and fix the problem!)

 

[d0nK]

europe sounds like a bunch of pansies. And we wonder why everything cost more in europe. The government acts like they are doing you a favor by making a company give ridiculous warranties for "free" but what they dont tell you is that the company is just going to include it in the price of the product, making you pay more, and creating more tax revenue to the government.

lol, what?
No. Just no. I think you've been smoking too much Apple lately.

Similar/better specced UK products already have 2-year warranties and most of them cost way, waaaaay less than the premium that Apple charges.

When I bought my MBP I avoided the Apple store because John Lewis gave me a 2 year warranty for the same price. No brainer.

 

[G5isAlive]

Must be something better to argue about then this nonsense

 

[Jognt]

Yay for digging up year-old threads! I saw a notification someone quoted me, and couldn't resist answering. sorry about that.

I don't know the laws of the Netherlands. But I do know UK law, and there are plenty of people claiming you have two years warranty in the UK, and it is nonsense, because it leaves out one rather important detail: After six months it is up to the customer to _prove_ that the fault was there when they bought the product.

So what _exactly_ does a manufacturer or seller have to do in the Netherlands, and under which conditions?

Not quite right. Here is how it works here in a month after purchase basis:
<6 months: It is assumed any defect was present at purchase -> Also known as: Dead On Arrival.
6 - 24 months: The buyer needs to prove he is not responsible for the defects. This basically means the buyer shows that he did not modify/drop/damage the device himself.
24+ months: Additional warranty is based on the average life expectancy of comparable devices and the relative price of the purchased product to these comparable devices.

I got a free iphone4 32gb as a replacement for my iPhone 3gs 32gb in the 2nd year after purchase ^^. Best purchase ever xD