European Consumer Groups Criticize Apple's Warranties

[andyone]

Thanks to the 2 year mandatory warranty in the EU, I didn't have to pay to get the faulty GPU replaced on my 2008 MBP.

Advertising 1 year warranty is actually pretty pathetic for a "premium" company like Apple. 3 years would be appropriate. Eizo even gives 5 years.

 

[World Citizen]

Ow come on people...


We don't pay more for Apple stuff..

When you calculate the price of the product, you will also have to calculate my salary ....

My euro is stil 1 out of 399
Your dollar is still 1 out of 399

If a european converts his money to dollars... his 1 euro is worth more than an american 1 dollar... Thats good for the european (its illegal to import this without paying additional taxes btw).. Americans are just stupid if they buy there iPad in europe with converterd dollars..


Its like...

If you earn 2000 dollars in America
You will earn for the same job 2000 euro in Europe...

 

[thundersteele]

There are differences between the mandatory two year warranty in the EU and AppleCare.

1) The EU warranty is a consequence of the contract between the consumer and the vendor of the product (i.e. the manufacturer, Apple, is only involved if you actually buy in the Apple store)
2) The EU warranty covers manufacturing defects, i.e. defect that were there at the time of purchase, but only showed visible effects later. Now the important thing here is that, if the product is older than 6 month, the customer has to prove that the defect was present at the time of purchase, and is not a consequence of use of the product.

What the consumer groups are upset with is the way AppleCare is advertised, since it seems to imply that there is only a 1 year warranty, while actually there are two years of EU-warranty (with the above restrictions).

Sometime ago I compared a few PC manufacturers. The trend seems to be that US based manufacturers only give 1 year in europe, and don't inform customers about the second year of mandatory warranty. The few Asian manufacturers that I checked actually give 2 years of (limited) warranty. All manufacturers offer extended warranty plans.

 

[whooleytoo]

europe sounds like a bunch of pansies. And we wonder why everything cost more in europe. The government acts like they are doing you a favor by making a company give ridiculous warranties for "free" but what they dont tell you is that the company is just going to include it in the price of the product, making you pay more, and creating more tax revenue to the government.

Nothing is free.

Do you think the price of a Mac/iPhone/iPad has anything to do with the cost of manufacture? Or the cost of providing after-sales service?

They set the price according to what they feel the market is willing to pay (and it seems they're doing an exceptional job of that; with among the best margins in each industry they're competing in, and tens of billions in the bank).

IF they're forced to provide additional after-sales service, they could raise the prices, but I doubt it; if it means they miss their price 'sweet spot'. They certainly have the cushion to absorb the cost, if need be. Who knows, they might look at their quality processes to see if they can reduce the rate of failure/return; thus reducing the cost of the after-sales service.

 

[emaja]

So in your view the people who stick up for their own rights are the "pansies?"

I didn't know that ownership of electronics was a "right."

I guess you DO learn something everyday.

 

[GenesisST]

In the case of the fine in Italy, shouldn't Italians know this already? I mean if it is standard, it applies to everything and should been common knowledge...

But then again, here we put "may contain nuts" cans of nuts... The universe just builds better idiots (and better lawyers or crappier judges and juries).

 

[AlanFord]

Ow come on people...


We don't pay more for Apple stuff..

When you calculate the price of the product, you will also have to calculate my salary ....

My euro is stil 1 out of 399
Your dollar is still 1 out of 399

Cool, just not working for me.
My value is on your euro, additional fee for Apple products.
Salary of 2000 euro I can only dream.
Cant even buy Apple care here, so yes, I would like to have a normal 2 year warranty to be safe if premium product (like Apple advertise) work for some reasonable time without having extra costs.

 

[SimonTheSoundMa]

Can someone edit the article. It says it is a EU law, it is an EU directive. 1999/44/EC is between the EU and governments, not between consumers and retailers. It directs governments to make amendments to their laws nest time they renew their consumer laws.

If you go quoting 1999/44/EC to an Apple Store or other retailer, you'll look a right idiot.



As for Apple. They are premium products. I have had a 4 year old iMac repaired for free by Apple, under SOGA in the England and Wales, you would expect a premium product to last longer than 4 years, it was not "of satisfactory durability". Apple agreed, and replaced the PSU and logic board.

Apple Care is expensive. Look elsewhere, you can get better deals. The only thing Apple Care really offers is over the phone support.

 

[Erwin-Br]

I didn't know that ownership of electronics was a "right."

I guess you DO learn something everyday.

I think you need to learn how to read first, buddy.

 

[gnasher729]

That's even better, but then how do you get Apple to respect the Sales of Goods Act? They generally turn you away after your 1-year warranty expires, saying that you'll have to pay for the repairs. What can you do?

"Sales of Goods" act requires that you prove the product was defective (if the problem happens after more than six months, and before it is covered by 1 year warranty anyway).

You say "how do you get Apple to respect the Sales of Goods Act?" It's really "how do you get the seller to respect the Sales of Goods Act?" Unless you buy from an Apple Store, the seller responsible is not Apple.

In practice, the first step is that you need to convince someone in the store that you _could_ prove the product was defective, and alternatively, that you would be very annoyed and not buy at the store ever again. That's the first step. If that doesn't work, you need to provide proof that the product was defective. For example, by having an independent competent person check it. If that doesn't work, you would have to take the seller to court.

So if they say "it's past the one year warranty, so you have to pay", you say calmly and looking as if you know what you are talking about "no, that is wrong, the problem was definitely present when I bought the product, and I'm sure I can prove it if I have to" and go from there.

BTW. "It's defective" and "it doesn't work" are not the same thing. Let's say the hard drive is mounted improperly, so it vibrates a lot, and therefore breaks down after 18 months instead of 3 years. It stops working after 18 months, but the defect ("mounted improperly") was present from day one, so it would have to be fixed.

 

[ovrlrd]

I think this is where Apple is headed. Moving toward a 2 year built in warranty, with the option of buying AppleCare+ to extend it to 3 plus accident protection.

At a certain point once they determine how successful AppleCare+ is they can expand it to all their products including their computers, and drop the regular one.

It's obvious to me that the regular AppleCare package that Apple sells only exists because of the profits they make from it, but on anything but their computers, it is a waste of money to consumers. AppleCare+ on the other hand is definitely a good value proposition, and I think the profits are nearly as high as the regular AppleCare.

 

[russofris]

I'm curious to know what Apple's costs are per device per year for applecare. Would it have been possible for Apple to simply extend the terms of their default Ita warranty to exceed that of the EU requirement, even if by a token amount, rather than to give 1.2m to a foreign government and their lawyers?

I do not see a link to the ruling on the reuters article, and am curious as to how they arrived at the 1.2m figure and the circumstances leading to the case.

 

[ditzy]

I didn't know that ownership of electronics was a "right."

I guess you DO learn something everyday.

It is not a right to own electronics. It is a right to expect a product to do the job it was advertised to do. Just because Apple sell luxary electronics, doesn't change the law, that the product should do what they said it should do, for a reasonable time.

 

[gnasher729]

I'm curious to know what Apple's costs are per device per year for applecare. Would it have been possible for Apple to simply extend the terms of their default Ita warranty to exceed that of the EU requirement, even if by a token amount, rather than to give 1.2m to a foreign government and their lawyers?

I do not see a link to the ruling on the reuters article, and am curious as to how they arrived at the 1.2m figure and the circumstances leading to the case.

In Italy, Apple made a subtle mistake.

Apple sells AppleCare (three years warranty plus some extras). Whatever you sell, you have to inform the buyer correctly what they are getting for their money. And it turns out that AppleCare doesn't actually give you three years warranty: AppleCare only gives you the difference between what the rights that you have anyway, and the three years warranty. If you buy AppleCare and your computer breaks down after eight months, AppleCare doesn't pay for that, your one year warranty does. And if it breaks down after 18 months in the UK and you can prove it is due to a defect, then AppleCare doesn't pay, but your statutory rights pay for it.

That's what Apple should have told customers in Italy, that AppleCare covers the difference between rights they had anyway, and three years warranty. And guess what, that is exactly what you find in the terms and conditions when you buy AppleCare now.

And Apple is fighting the fine in Italy, so that is not final.

And Apple doesn't have to extend what AppleCare covers. They just have to say precisely what is covered, which they didn't (by mistake).

 

[emaja]

It is not a right to own electronics. It is a right to expect a product to do the job it was advertised to do. Just because Apple sell luxary electronics, doesn't change the law, that the product should do what they said it should do, for a reasonable time.

I understand and I was deliberately being obnoxious.

I think a one year warranty is acceptable as a "reasonable amount of time." Now, most electronics will last longer than that, but if I want to extend that by purchasing an extended warranty, then by all means I have the right to do so.

When you get to a place where governments are mandating warranty lengths, I think that is unnecessary. I know that one year is standard. If I want more - I buy more. That way, I - and I alone - bear the cost. No one else is paying for my coverage. I think that is fair.

 

[coder12]

I stopped using Apple's warranty for iPones and iPads this past year; Best Buy allows you to get a new device under any circumstance (except for losing the device itself) with their warranty program.

 

[anomie]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3)

No other computer company in the EU, that I know of, offer more than a standard 1 year manufacturer's warranty on their computers. I'm not sure if the EU policy stated in this article extends to computing, but if it does, it's not just Apple 'in the wrong'.

Of course, I'm just speaking from experience; but from what I've encountered, Apple have the best customer service by an absolute mile, and people seem to use any excuse to criticise them.

Apple is no longer a Computer Co.

They are Apple Inc.

They just changed their name. It's still a computer company.

 

[cosmichobo]

I find all extended warranties to be a slap in the face... especially if the manufacturer only offers 1 year on a premium product.

I was livid when my 18 month old eMac failed due to manufacturing faults (bad caps), and Apple (Australia in my case, but also around the globe) were not recognising for a start that there was an issue, but also not recognising Australian Consumer Law, which states that a product has to be of merchantable quality, including lasting a reasonable amount of time. For a leading brand, with a premium price tag, 18 months was not acceptable.

Unfortunately it took an email to the late Mr Jobs to get anything done about it.

 

[deecasey]

The bottom line is Apple should have the confidence that their products will last at least 2 years before showing any unusual defects that are not signs of user misuse or accidental damage.

They're a BIG global company, with a massive cash reserve, who should take the lead here and make it a positive selling point that your covered for 2 years and AppleCare will give you a 3rd years cover.

 

[rdlink]

Do you think the price of a Mac/iPhone/iPad has anything to do with the cost of manufacture? Or the cost of providing after-sales service?

They set the price according to what they feel the market is willing to pay (and it seems they're doing an exceptional job of that; with among the best margins in each industry they're competing in, and tens of billions in the bank).

IF they're forced to provide additional after-sales service, they could raise the prices, but I doubt it; if it means they miss their price 'sweet spot'. They certainly have the cushion to absorb the cost, if need be. Who knows, they might look at their quality processes to see if they can reduce the rate of failure/return; thus reducing the cost of the after-sales service.

Yep. This is the thinking that got us $300 Dell computers with 90 day warranties, that start dying the day after they come out of the box. And $99 airfares that turn into $250 after taxes, credit card usage fees, on-line check in fees, lavatory fees, baggage fees, etc.

OP was right. Companies who can afford to push the cost of doing business on their customers will never absorb regulatory costs. Just a fact of life. Apple sells almost everything they put on the the market. They're in the position to raise prices when regulations cost them profits.

 

[Abilio Magalhaes]

Wirelessly posted

In Portugal all consumer equipments (computers, casmeras, etc...) have two years. But in law there are a spec for "consumer". If you register your Apple hardware in a company name in Apple you will only have one year. If you don't register and ahow to Apple an invoice addressed to your personal name, you will have two years.

 

[reden]

If anything, they should be offering extended warranties included with their expensive devices such as iPhones, MacBook Pros, iPads, and Mac Pros. These products almost always have issues. I've owned all those devices at some point, and always present issues that I have to take them in. Shouldn't be a case where the cost of defective hardware due to manufacturing issues should be passed down to the consumer.

However, I will stress that I've always had most of my issues resolved. Apple can also be lenient. I've read stories to where they helped people even if they were out of warranty, given it's not damage caused by the consumer, etc.

 

[pianojoe]

No other computer company in the EU, that I know of, offer more than a standard 1 year manufacturer's warranty on their computers. I'm not sure if the EU policy stated in this article extends to computing, but if it does, it's not just Apple 'in the wrong'.

There is no unified EU policy on that. (Sigh)

Here in Germany, it's two years flat.

 

[brentsg]

If anything, they should be offering extended warranties included with their expensive devices such as iPhones, MacBook Pros, iPads, and Mac Pros. These products almost always have issues. I've owned all those devices at some point, and always present issues that I have to take them in. Shouldn't be a case where the cost of defective hardware due to manufacturing issues should be passed down to the consumer.

You can't really believe that people almost always have problems with these products.

If you've honestly had to take in all of these devices for some kind of repair then your situation is certainly not the norm. I've had 3 iPhones, 2 iPads, 2 MacBook Pros, a PowerBook, and a Mac Pro. Never have I required service for any of them. Apple simply wouldn't be leading the pack in Customer Satisfaction if it was the norm that all of their products require service.

 

[cosmichobo]

You can't really believe that people almost always have problems with these products.

There is certainly a perception that this is the case... but these days it would simply be because of the volume of Apple gear in circulation.