European Union Ends Antitrust Investigations Into Apple's iPhone Repair and iOS Development Policies

[KnightWRX]

The Museum of Modern Art [Apple] curates its collection so that people get what they expect when they visit the museum. That is, they see good quality modern art. If you want to see other types of art, it doesn't do much good to whine about the rules. Just go to any of the other museums where you can find all kinds of art.

Your museum analogy fails because you didn't tie it to a device. With my iPhone, I have no choice to go to Apple for apps.

Try another analogy or rework it. Of course, then your points falls apart...

Apple did good here. They can have a curated store without having unjustified restrictions that limit developer and consumer options without any advantage.

I can write malware in Objective-C using the Apple frameworks. Having 3rd party frameworks and allowing different programming language does not open the door to anything that can't be done right now.

Apple took the right decision here, after making such a poor one in April in an attempt to block a competitor unreasonably.

 

[ryguy2303]

I'm confused. So will I be able to get my iPhone serviced out of the country of purchase? Sorry for being daft.

 

[whatever]

Does the word FREEDOM mean anything to you? You know, things like freedom of choice and freedom of speech - the sort of freedom that Apple does NOT give its customers.

What are talking about? Apple having restrictions on what they sell and support is not a "freedom" issue.

Apple is a business. If they want to create a product and only allow Apple certified developers then they can. Wouldn't be the most open environment, but there is nothing wrong with that. Would that make good businesss sense? No, but are there closed systems out in the wild? Yes.

 

[KnightWRX]

Apple is a business. If they want to create a product and only allow Apple certified developers then they can. Wouldn't be the most open environment, but there is nothing wrong with that. Would that make good businesss sense? No, but are there closed systems out in the wild? Yes.

Apparently they can't no, hence this investigation, Apple's 180, and then the dropping of this investigation.

 

[Elven]

Regardless of Apple doing this to avoid further legal action, it's a good move. We can only hope that Apple refrain from limiting their devices to futher profits in the future

 

[NebulaClash]

Your museum analogy fails because you didn't tie it to a device. With my iPhone, I have no choice to go to Apple for apps.

Try another analogy or rework it. Of course, then your points falls apart..

Wasn't my analogy, I was merely reworking it.

And my analogy does work, because the device is the museum in the analogy. You can choose the Museum of Modern Art [the device], and the curators control what you can see inside it [the apps]. If you want to see other types of art that the curators don't think is appropriate, you are allowed to leave that museum [the iPhone] and go to many different museums [other phones] where you can find all the other apps you want. Hey, there's even a Museum of Sex in NYC.

 

[gatearray]

Your museum analogy fails because you didn't tie it to a device. With my iPhone, I have no choice to go to Apple for apps.

Precisely!

It's a clue that the iPhone is sold with the App Store App installed standard. That is what you bought, a smartphone compatible with the App Store. The manufacturer spends time, effort and money verifying the "software" they are selling you through the App Store, and are the responsible party should said app not work, or cause damage to your device, or steal your identity, etc.

You might as well complain that you can't access the Android Marketplace on your iPhone. The phone was not designed and sold for that purpose, and that decision was made by it's inventor, Apple.

You don't walk into the Levi's store and accuse them of trampling on your freedom because they don't sell Lee jeans in their store, do you?

 

[paul4339]

I'm confused. So will I be able to get my iPhone serviced out of the country of purchase? Sorry for being daft.

yes... by independent service providers.

P.

 

[KnightWRX]

Wasn't my analogy, I was merely reworking it.

And my analogy does work, because the device is the museum in the analogy. You can choose the Museum of Modern Art [the device], and the curators control what you can see inside it [the apps].

Bzzzt. The Museum is the App Store, not the device.

Hence your point falls apart.

If I really had a choice, Apple would not prevent me from installing IPAs from elsewhere than the App Store. Things like Cydia wouldn't require jailbreaking.

Your analogy is missing a car. When you buy a Volvo [Device], you are locked in the Museum of Modern Art [App Store] and can only see the curated art [apps]. Which would be perfectly ridiculous and people would completely burn Volvo to a crisp if it were to happen.

 

[DeepIn2U]

How was this even worth anyone's time, on either side? Location of repair shops?

Congrats to the Europeans, this is what you pay your pseudo-government for. You "win" again.

I guess Apple (and probably most companies) just needs to recognize that the "states" of the EU exist and stop treating it like more than one place. UK won't like it, but hey, maybe y'all can start another war.

Good point. Oddly enough why has Nokia been getting away with this for YEARS!!!

Proof:
Nokia E71-2 is US 3G bands only yet can be purchased by authorized retailers worldwide. Nokia does this with almost EVERY other S60/Symbian smartphone they've sold for the past 10 years.
Google: Nokia Declaration of Conformity to see the varying model sub-model designations.

Sony Ericsson for years as also done the same ... I've YET to see such a case brought to them.

maybe its because Apple has 1 model and thus sold everywhere.

 

[giosaccone]

And now We want Apple Care for two years and for free!

 

[christian_k]

I wonder why Apple has waited so long to do this.

Background:
In the EU you have two years warranty for everything you buy. But it is the merchant who is liable and not the manufactor. No merchant has a chance to get around this (everything different in terms and conditions etc is null and void by European law).
That means if you are in Germany and buy an iPhone for example in Italy (because you don't like the German exclusive provider and sim-lock) you do have a warranty, but you will have to send the iPhone to Italy to have it serviced and many people consider this a risk, you have to wait some time and it may be difficult because of language barriers etc.
The other - perhaps safer - way to get an unlocked phone was to order it from various importers. Such a company would be located within Germany so it is much easier if you need service. But these companies charged a huge extra on top of the iPhones price. Often about 300€.

That means there was a "grey marked" with large profits. I don't think this is good for a company like Apple. But now you can buy the iPhone during your vacation in Italy and have it serviced at every Apple service provider. So the grey marked is dried out.

Christian

 

[NebulaClash]

Bzzzt. The Museum is the App Store, not the device.

Hence your point falls apart.

If I really had a choice, Apple would not prevent me from installing IPAs from elsewhere than the App Store. Things like Cydia wouldn't require jailbreaking.

Your analogy is missing a car. When you buy a Volvo [Device], you are locked in the Museum of Modern Art [App Store] and can only see the curated art [apps]. Which would be perfectly ridiculous and people would completely burn Volvo to a crisp if it were to happen.

No. The museum is the device or it makes no sense. Within that device are lots of things, including bathrooms and cafeterias and coat check rooms and offices and all the other administrative things that the visitor never sees but are needed to keep the lights on and the plumbing working.

Now within a museum building [the iPhone] are galleries of art work [the App Store]. Within each gallery are individual works of art [the apps]. When you go to the Museum of Modern Art, you expect certain works of art. If you don't want those works, you go to a different museum [different device].

 

[NebulaClash]

Good point. Oddly enough why has Nokia been getting away with this for YEARS!!!

Proof:
Nokia E71-2 is US 3G bands only yet can be purchased by authorized retailers worldwide. Nokia does this with almost EVERY other S60/Symbian smartphone they've sold for the past 10 years.
Google: Nokia Declaration of Conformity to see the varying model sub-model designations.

Sony Ericsson for years as also done the same ... I've YET to see such a case brought to them.

maybe its because Apple has 1 model and thus sold everywhere.

There's always a double standard with Apple because they get a huge amount of attention. All phones have issues when you hold them just right, but only Apple gets slammed for it, for instance.

 

[njpodder]

Here's an analogy for you! I want my iMac to have a toaster oven built into the back of the monitor so that I don't have to get up and go to the kitchen to cook a batch of pizza rolls while working late at night on my computer. The fact that Apple will not support someone out there reworking their iMac to include a toaster oven on the back of it for me is a DIRECT VIOLATION OF MY FREEDOM TO EAT PIZZA ROLLS.

Do you start to see how ridiculous you people sound?? The musem = the phone analogy works, btw.

If you don't like the product that Apple makes, or the fact that they decide what is and isn't appropriate for their device, then go buy a phone that you can get what you want on. you have the FREEDOM to do that.

Henry Ford said "Yo ucan have your Model-T in any color you want, as long as it's black!" That's a decision for hte business to say we are going to support our product. Apple says "You cna have any app on our phone that you want, as long as we make sure that it is in line with keeping OUR product the way we want our end product to be." Don't like their end product? TOUGH S&%^, go buy someone else's product. You don't own iOS just because you forked over the money for it on your iPhone. Read the terms and conditions. All software, works that way, actually, even Android OS.

Here's another one for you! Let's say you take your children to the kids science museum and there is a giant painting of two naked people having rough sex. By your standards, the museum should HAVE to allow this or it's a violation of your freedom. However, do you reall ythink a children's msueum should have porno art hanging next to the kids stuff?

 

[KnightWRX]

No. The museum is the device or my point falls apart.

Fixed it for you. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The Museum is the App Store, no matter how much you don't want it to.

Within that device are lots of things, including bathrooms and cafeterias and coat check rooms and offices and all the other administrative things that the visitor never sees but are needed to keep the lights on and the plumbing working.

There is tons of stuff going on the background for the App Store too, you're failing at justifying your analogy. The Museum is the App Store. Accept it, breath it in and just redo your analogy. You do understand that real world analogies almost never work right ? It's ok, you're not some kind of failure for making a poor analogy, people do all the time.

Chill and move on.

Anyway, why argue ? Apple did the 180 because they felt pressure from governing bodies. It ended up with more openness on their side, which benefits both devs and consumers. This is a good thing for all, including Apple.

 

[C is for COOKIE]

I guess Apple (and probably most companies) just needs to recognize that the "states" of the EU exist and stop treating it like more than one place. UK won't like it, but hey, maybe y'all can start another war.

Hardly. EU is a glorified consumer organisation really. Regulating size, shape of bananas etc. with economic competencies and some political competencies.
It's bound by the subsidiarity which means it can only act on issues where member states feel the EU as a whole would do a job better. etc. etc.

Hate when people refer to Europe as a country

 

[zacman]

How was this even worth anyone's time, on either side? Location of repair shops?

You obviously have no clue what it was about.

The iPhone is not available unlocked in every country of the EU, for example it's sold only locked to t-mobile in Germany but sold unlocked in Italy. So many Germans just went to Italy and bought their iPhone there unlocked in an Apple store. And when they had to repair it and went to a German Apple store Apple told them: "******* you, go to an Apple store in Italy where you bought it.". And that's in violation of the EU contract.

You also shouldn't forget that it were the investigations by the European commission that forced Apple to remove the DRM from the iTunes music.

 

[NebulaClash]

Yes, you can make a different analogy that applies just to the App Store if you wish, and then what you said makes sense. But in my analogy it's the museum that is the device. My point has been made, other readers got my point, let's move on.

 

[KnightWRX]

Yes, you can make a different analogy that applies just to the App Store if you wish, and then what you said makes sense. But in my analogy it's the museum that is the device. My point has been made, other readers got my point, let's move on.

*Sigh*, I think a few others called you out on your analogy and pointed out how bunk it was and you got nearly 0 support for it. Accept it and move on.

You also shouldn't forget that it were the investigations by the European commission that forced Apple to remove the DRM from the iTunes music.

Uh ? I'm pretty sure Apple negotiated for years to not have DRM in the iTunes Music store and they finally got their point accross when Amazon managed to negotiate selling MP3s without DRM with record companies.

 

[njpodder]

*Sigh*, I think a few others called you out on your analogy and pointed out how bunk it was and you got nearly 0 support for it. Accept it and move on.

I would like to show my support for NebulaClash is saying that his analogy works, yours does not.

 

[KnightWRX]

I would like to show my support for NebulaClash is saying that his analogy works, yours does not.

Why did I know someone was going to say that ? Doesn't make his analogy better and shows your position in all this.

 

[zacman]

Uh ? I'm pretty sure Apple negotiated for years to not have DRM in the iTunes Music store and they finally got their point accross when Amazon managed to negotiate selling MP3s without DRM with record companies.

Nope, European commission investigated against Apple because you weren't able to listen to the music you bought in the iTMS on other players while Apple had >30% marketshare which qualifies as a monopoly in European anti-trust law. The commission was just about to put it to trial when Apple announced that it will drop the DRM...

 

[njpodder]

*Sigh*, I think a few others called you out on your analogy and pointed out how bunk it was and you got nearly 0 support for it. Accept it and move on.


However, for the sake of arguing, even thought this is a ridiculous argument, let's go ahead and say that the App store is the museum. Your analogy still fails, because if the App Store is the museum, then who decides what does and does not go into a museum? The museum curators/owners, that's who. Therefore, Apple is well within their rights to dictate what does and does not appear on their app store. Under your analogy, however (Because I can already see your rebuttal), you are going to say that it's not fair that other app stores can't go on the iPhone, but as long as the App store is the museum, then the iPhone itself has to be location. In this case, it would have to be wither the world, or perhaps the country, or state, or wherever. That is where your analogy falls apart even more. If the phone is the world, and the world only allows one app store, then you have to say that other devices are other worlds, and in the real world, we have Earth, so if you don't like your choices on Earth, you can't go to another world/planet (Phone). If you decide to call the iPhone your state or country, and it's a violation of your freedom that you only get one App store (museum) in your state/country, your analogy also fails. I would think someone from Canada with your "No freedom of choice healthcare" would understand where that analogy fails.

Either way you look at it, the analogy where the museum is the device, is the only way that analogy makes any sense at all

 

[KnightWRX]

However, for the sake of arguing, even thought this is a ridiculous argument, let's go ahead and say that the App store is the museum. Your analogy still fails, because if the App Store is the museum, then who decides what does and does not go into a museum? The museum curators/owners, that's who. Therefore, Apple is well within their rights to dictate what does and does not appear on their app store

I never said this part was wrong. It isn't. Indeed, the museum is sole responsible about what goes in it. Except he said "You are free to go to another Museum", which isn't the case when you add the other variable, the Device that is carefully missing from his analogy.

There is no device in the Museum analogy, so you're not tied down. The iPhone ties you down to the App store thanks to Apple's decision, hence why his analogy fails.

Simple, and sometime I already explained in this thread. Are you rehashing old points ?