European Union Ends Antitrust Investigations Into Apple's iPhone Repair and iOS Development Policies

[NebulaClash]

And please note, not even the EU is demanding that Apple accept any ol' fart app that gets submitted. Even the EU knows that Apple is allowed to curate their own store. Don't like it? Go to a different store with a different device. The free market gives you that choice.

 

[NebulaClash]

I never said this part was wrong. It isn't. Indeed, the museum is sole responsible about what goes in it. Except he said "You are free to go to another Museum", which isn't the case when you add the other variable, the Device that is carefully missing from his analogy.

There is no device in the Museum analogy, so you're not tied down. The iPhone ties you down to the App store thanks to Apple's decision, hence why his analogy fails.

Simple, and sometime I already explained in this thread. Are you rehashing old points ?

You're a smart guy, so I know you understand what I am saying, but because my analogy disproves your point you refuse to publicly say that I am including the device in my analogy.

You pay your admission for a device. Once inside, you are restricted to what has been curated for that device. Choose what appeals to you. The magic of the open market.

 

[NicoleRichie]

get the big guys and go after the ones with deep pockets... is apple getting to big? I say no...

 

[njpodder]

I never said this part was wrong. It isn't. Indeed, the museum is sole responsible about what goes in it. Except he said "You are free to go to another Museum", which isn't the case when you add the other variable, the Device that is carefully missing from his analogy.

There is no device in the Museum analogy, so you're not tied down. The iPhone ties you down to the App store thanks to Apple's decision, hence why his analogy fails.

Simple, and sometime I already explained in this thread. Are you rehashing old points ?

Wait, now you are confusing me. You say that the device is carefully missing in his analogy, but then you say that in your analogy there is no device, so really, in your analogy the device is missing, not his. In his, the device is the museum, so you have total freedom to use the iphone with the app store, or the android phone with the android marketplace or anotehr device with it's own method of putting apps on.

This is kind of like saying "I don't think it's fair that on my android, I can't download apps from the Apple App store." Really, it's the same point, isn't it?

See how Android ties you down to the Android marketplace?

Why can't I install Garageband on my PC? It's not compatible, it's tied down to Mac. Why can't I put a V12 engine in a Honda Civic? The engine compartment is only big enough to tie it down to an I-4. Granted, these are stupid analogies too, but I am making a point that is hopefully easier to understand.

 

[Scooterman1]

I see that you changed your avatar from Android to hide your allegiance. You do realize that Android is only "OPEN" for carriers and that you have to "ROOT" the device in order to open it up for yourself?

I actually DO still have an iPhone. I also have traded in 2 iPhones for 2 HTC EVO on Android. And yes, Root/Jailbreak.... same thing except you get SO much more by Jailbreaking an iPhone to get what comes stock on an Android. I will have to eventually Root my androids to get WiFi tethering unless they come out with an App for a Tablet, or iPad to cable it to the USB port for tethering. In that case, I won't need to Root because I can already use it for USB tethering of my Laptop without any subscription charges.
Back to the thread though..... Apple did cut a lot of 3rd party Apps from making money. Androiid was pretty open there, but this isn't about the difference, it's just a question of fair trade practices on Apple's part. Just say that a dev would have sold 10,000 apps at 1.00 each while Apple blocked them from doing it. Oh, well, we'll just have to wait and see if the U.S. Dept of Justice follows suit.....

 

[dreamgood]

what is the source for this ? can some one post the original source confirming this please

 

[aristotle]

What KnightWRX and others don't want to talk about is that many Android devices now do not allow "side-loading" of apps without either rooting (equivalent of a jailbreak) or some third party hack app to get around the restriction on Google store only apps.

What this essentially means is their cry for freedom is essentially moot and you can "jailbreak" an iOS device as well to "SIDELOAD" apps but you run the risk of ending up with malware or a device that needs to be restored in iTunes.

The appstore model helps regular non-nerd users keep a stable phone/PMP/tablet and reduces the chance of causal piracy.

I have jailbroken both my iPhone and iPad but I will never install the source for pirated apps and I am very careful about what I install through Cydia. Most users know too little about such things and allowing "side-loading" is too risky for non-technical users to use safely/ethically.

 

[njpodder]

What KnightWRX and others don't want to talk about is that many Android devices now do not allow "side-loading" of apps without either rooting (equivalent of a jailbreak) or some third party hack app to get around the restriction on Google store only apps.

What this essentially means is their cry for freedom is essentially moot and you can "jailbreak" an iOS device as well to "SIDELOAD" apps but you run the risk of ending up with malware or a device that needs to be restored in iTunes.

The appstore model helps regular non-nerd users keep a stable phone/PMP/tablet and reduces the chance of causal piracy.

I have jailbroken both my iPhone and iPad but I will never install the source for pirated apps and I am very careful about what I install through Cydia. Most users know too little about such things and allowing "side-loading" is too risky for non-technical users to use safely/ethically.

Thank you! This is the point right here. The whole point and the only point worth making in this thread. By the way, for the record, my iPhone is jailbroken, but that is my choice and my risk. It's not against the law, but Apple certainly doesn't (And shouldn't) recommend it. Also, a buddy of mine just traded his iPhone for a Droid X because of all the freedom that Android allows. It's been 3 weeks, and he has already had to root it to get it to do everything that he wants it to do. So much for a free open environment.

Also, in case you're wondering where my allegiance lies, I am still using my 3G until I decide to get an iPhone 4 or a Droid, both phones which I believe have great features that depend on the preference of the end user to decide which is right for them.

 

[JAT]

Hardly. EU is a glorified consumer organisation really. Regulating size, shape of bananas etc. with economic competencies and some political competencies.
It's bound by the subsidiarity which means it can only act on issues where member states feel the EU as a whole would do a job better. etc. etc.

Hate when people refer to Europe as a country

Well, on this topic it is, whether you like it or not. As you said, they are regulating things across borders just as the USA does across State borders. Let's list this out for those that don't seem to get it:

1. Apple has a policy about not supporting products in other countries. This usually makes sense due to language and other reasons. For example, the USA has products and features in products that Chile does not have, so the support people in Chile should not have to know how to fix a USA product. This is not a specific policy to EU countries, but it affects them differently, because:
2. The EU wants to be treated as one group, not as several separate countries. At least economically. So:
3. Apple needs to change their policies to allow for EU countries as a whole, not just lumping them in with the standard international policies. Really sounds like someone (lawyer!) is just not getting all the necessary parameters in place.

You obviously have no clue what it was about.

The iPhone is not available unlocked in every country of the EU, for example it's sold only locked to t-mobile in Germany but sold unlocked in Italy. So many Germans just went to Italy and bought their iPhone there unlocked in an Apple store. And when they had to repair it and went to a German Apple store Apple told them: "******* you, go to an Apple store in Italy where you bought it.". And that's in violation of the EU contract.

Actually, you almost just proved Apple should have fought this. If they are selling different products in different countries, then they shouldn't have to support them elsewhere. But that isn't really the case. YOU have no clue what it is about. Here:

The EU wants all of you (I'm assuming you are in the EU, from your comment) to be treated the same in certain ways, mostly economic and commercially. So, they want you to be treated the way the USA States are treated, as if country borders have no meaning. Again, don't like if you don't, but quit making it something it is not.

You also shouldn't forget that it were the investigations by the European commission that forced Apple to remove the DRM from the iTunes music.

This has nothing to do with the topic whatsoever. You could have said, "I put my left shoe on first today" and it would have been just as relevant.

 

[Scooterman1]

What KnightWRX and others don't want to talk about is that many Android devices now do not allow "side-loading" of apps without either rooting (equivalent of a jailbreak) or some third party hack app to get around the restriction on Google store only apps.

What this essentially means is their cry for freedom is essentially moot and you can "jailbreak" an iOS device as well to "SIDELOAD" apps but you run the risk of ending up with malware or a device that needs to be restored in iTunes.

The appstore model helps regular non-nerd users keep a stable phone/PMP/tablet and reduces the chance of causal piracy.

I have jailbroken both my iPhone and iPad but I will never install the source for pirated apps and I am very careful about what I install through Cydia. Most users know too little about such things and allowing "side-loading" is too risky for non-technical users to use safely/ethically.

Thank you! This is the point right here.

You really need to learn about Android...... at least the HTC Evo has a Setting (comes with the UI) that you can load any app made for Android. Sorry aristotle.... in reading your post again, you DID say many Android devices, you didn't say ALL. In most cases, they run on my phone.
You go to Settings/Applications
There you will find Unknown Sources, as an item with a checkbox to the right of it, and the description for checking that box as 'Allow installation of non-Market applications.
This is STOCK in my Froyo, and previous, UI. Nothing has to be rooted to do this. Maybe it wasn't an option before Android OS 2.1, I've only had mine starting with that.

As a matter of fact, in the AppInventor Website, you can create you OWN Apps in a pretty easy-to-use interface, and this is the ONLY way that you can load these Apps that Google lets you create. You create them, download them to your computer, and then load them from there, your own website, or one you have uploaded the App to. You can even share these homemade apps with others. All without going through the Android Market. Pretty neat, huh? These are part of the reasons that I moved two phones to Android. Now, if they come up with a tablet comparable to the iPad.... well...... but for now, they're just working on the tablets.... iPad still rules. But, I'm holding off buying 2 of them until I see what else comes along.

and P.S. - I'm not badmouthing iPhones. They have their own good points. And a loyal following.

 

[hitekalex]

Yes, you can make a different analogy that applies just to the App Store if you wish, and then what you said makes sense. But in my analogy it's the museum that is the device. My point has been made, other readers got my point, let's move on.

No, other readers don't get your point, because your analogy between the Museum and The Device is nonsensical. And here's why:

I go to a different museum every Sunday.. this week it may be Museum of Modern Art, next week it may be Museum of Chinese Archeology. Do you change your device (e.g. a cellphone) every week? No you don't. In fact, most of us are tied to a 2-year carrier contract, so "just get a different device" idea doesn't work so well in the real world.

The Museum is an App Store. We should be able to choose between different types of Museums (App Stores) any time we wish, without having to change our hardware. It's really that simple.

Better ask yourself - why do you feel so compelled to justify Apple's locked down iron fist model when it comes to iOS devices? What would be the downside in giving the end users an option to 'Enable non-App Store Sources'? That option can even be off by default, like it is on Android. So if someone wants to install IPA's directly from the developers or from non-Apple sources - they have to go into settings and explicitly enable it. What would be wrong with that?

It is beyond me why people are so blind that they are willing to justify whatever arbitrary, idiotic and anti-consumer rules are forced down their throats by the money hungry corporations. But I digress.

 

[NebulaClash]

It would be fine with me if Apple allowed you to go outside the store, so it's a mystery to me why people think I'm "compelled" to defend Apple's model. I was merely taking someone else's analogy about museums and showing how it also fits Apple's model. Obviously you cannot take the analogy too far, as you just showed it doesn't map perfectly. As you say, we do not switch phones every week, but we do switch museums every week. So taken to that degree, it doesn't work. That's true of every analogy.

But limited it merely to what I was saying (curating a store is not being unreasonable, for we see examples of curation throughout our lives), it works.

Would I prefer Apple modify some of their policies? Of course. But I'm not going to waste my time arguing about that on these forums. This is not the place, which is why it's so strange to see so many Apple policy haters hanging out here wasting their time talking about such things.

 

[iSee]

Not really. Apple still gets to censor content based on Steve's prejudices. They still get to restrict software that goes into the App Store to try and kill off competing software like Flash. They still get to do lots of bad things.

Just less than they were trying to do.

Phazer

This has been a big win for consumers. Of course you can argue that additional restrictions should be lifted, but that doesn't change the fact that two significant ones have been.

 

[hitekalex]

Would I prefer Apple modify some of their policies? Of course. But I'm not going to waste my time arguing about that on these forums. This is not the place, which is why it's so strange to see so many Apple policy haters hanging out here wasting their time talking about such things.

I disagree once again - these forums are exactly the right place to voice concerns about Apple's policies. People who frequent these forums are the Apple's most hard core customers, and you can be darn sure Apple pays attention to what's being discussed here.

Enough vocal people voice their displeasure and a few lawsuits later - and all of a sudden Apple "voluntarily" loosens up their iron fist grip. This is how change is made.

 

[NebulaClash]

Well, sure, express your opinion here, that's fine. But if you think for a second that writing Steve's emotions controls what goes into the app store, or that Apple is EVIL or that Apple takes away our freedom, you're wrong. If anyone at Apple hears about such extreme language, they will ignore it as the unserious extremism it is.

If you want to convince a company to change, use reason and logic, not hyperbole and emotion. What we typically see here is the exact opposite of the way to convince Apple to change.

But many of the folks posting inflammatory anti-Apple comments here don't want Apple to change. They want something to hate, or they want their competitors to do better, or something. Constructive criticism it ain't.

 

[hitekalex]

If you want to convince a company to change, use reason and logic, not hyperbole and emotion. What we typically see here is the exact opposite of the way to convince Apple to change.

And just as typically - we see plenty of pro-Apple zealots who are eager to make excuses and justifications for anything that Apple does, no matter how unreasonable.. those same people also tend to take every word that comes out of Jobs mouth as gospel.

So on average, it's a pretty good balance. Let's just leave it at that.

 

[NebulaClash]

I agree that we see extremists on both sides. I disagree that adding extremism to extremism adds balance. It does not.

 

[KnightWRX]

What KnightWRX and others don't want to talk about is that many Android devices now do not allow "side-loading" of apps without either rooting (equivalent of a jailbreak) or some third party hack app to get around the restriction on Google store only apps.

Why do you think I don't want to talk about it ? It's not even the subject of the thread. But ok let's talk about it (there, just proved you wrong on that very first point. Bad start for you right there).

Many Android devices ? I don't think so. A few ? Yes. An option in the UI ? Definitely as pointed out already. The "many" you cite is because the default option is to allow market apps only.

However, the beauty of Android is if I'm not satisfied with my device, I don't lose anything switching to another Android device. There are many devices out there, some more locked down by carriers then others, some more manufacturer locked down. However, when I switch from one to the other, my purchases are intact on the market, I retain my apps. iPhone ? One vendor, one model. Not happy ? Lose everything.

So it doesn't matter, the market will regulate itself. If users don't like locked down models, they won't buy them and carriers/manufacturers will get the message.

Veering quite off topic here, but you felt the need to bring Android into this (I don't know why you named me either, I don't own an Android phone, I have a 3GS).

 

[Scooterman1]

iPhone ? One vendor, one model. Not happy ? Lose everything.

I do have to come to the defense of the iPhone here. At least the ones that I had (5 in all) don't lose the Apps when you get a new phone. Not as long as you have them synced with iTunes, and use the same iTunes account on the new phone/phones.
That is the one advantage my iPhones had over the Android. I could EASILY use the same Apps on more than one phone by just using the same iTunes email account.
On Android, it's not as easy. You can move most apps to other phones, but your can't update the other phones through the Market because each phone is tied to a different gmail account.

 

[KnightWRX]

I do have to come to the defense of the iPhone here. At least the ones that I had (5 in all) don't lose the Apps when you get a new phone.

Of course they don't, but switching models from iPhone to another device means you can't use those apps anymore, unless you keep an iPod Touch or an iPhone around along with your new phone.

Again : Android : switching models to another vendor's, keep apps since all models run Android.

iPhone : Lose apps, there's only 1 vendor. Switching means forfeiting everything you've bought as far as apps go.

 

[NebulaClash]

It's been my experience that those who switch to Apple products are more likely to be happy remaining there. It's the Windows side that sees people switching around trying to find a solution they like better. I'm beginning to see that same dynamic build in the Android world, but the iPhone users (for the most part) see no reason to swap.

 

[Scooterman1]

Of course they don't, but switching models from iPhone to another device means you can't use those apps anymore, unless you keep an iPod Touch or an iPhone around along with your new phone.

Again : Android : switching models to another vendor's, keep apps since all models run Android.

iPhone : Lose apps, there's only 1 vendor. Switching means forfeiting everything you've bought as far as apps go.

+1

And especially forfeiting Apps like the Navigation Apps that you've paid good money for. But on Android, it looks like you have to buy a separate App for each phone. Like with CoPilot, that could get expensive. Especially since I had already bought it on the iPhone, and the Dev wouldn't let me switch over. So, I elected to stay with the great FREE Google and FREE Sprint Navigation Apps. They just won't work where I don't have a data connection.