OS Neutral Eve vs Elite:Dangerous vs Star Citizen

Discussion in 'Mac and PC Games' started by Huntn, Jan 17, 2015.

  1. Huntn, Jan 17, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #1
    I briefly played Eve during a free trial and decide I was too far behind the curve to contine and the subcscription annoyed me. I've since jumped into ED. I'd be interested to hear opinions on this topic.

    Feb7 Update: Expanded the topic to include Star Citizen
     
  2. soulsyphon, Jan 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015

    soulsyphon macrumors regular

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    #2
    subscription is 15$, thats not expensive. (but i see you're playing wow in another thread) dot dot dot

    regardless... eve is an mmo... elite not very much so... elite is more like a game with online authentication, you will rarely meet anyone if you don't stick to systems with people in them.

    eve has 7500 systems, elite has 400 billion.

    there's 500,000 people subbed to eve, theres less players in elite. eve is about territorial conquest, thats impossible in elite. eve has corps (guilds) and elite does not have that. eve has a chat... local chat, corp chat, alliance chat and any other chats you want to join while elite can only chat with people you lock into.

    there is an eve thread which if you decided to click the links would show you what is possible in eve, and i guess i'll repeat...

    here's a list of things you can do in eve... this was made in 2011
    http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

    now in elite... you can't do much... you also need to refuel which can get annoying when you travel many systems.

    in elite you're restricted to trying to find another player and kill them, trade against npcs... not a real player economy like eve, and mining... thats about all elite offers.

    in eve you can do 2000vs2000 battles now and CRAFT... elite max player in system is 35 has 0 crafting.

    i can go on but based on your feedback in the eve thread it isn't worth it since you said you're more of a solo player and found eve boring. eve will be boring to you because eve is an MMO not a solo game like elite.

    elite devs said you'll be able to enter planets... and eve will have project legion coming out which is fps mmo tied to eve servers.. so really you can go explore planets like a loner or play legion and kick some ass.

    meh.

    edit: heres the eve thread, you might want to click the links this time... and the 2nd last post in the thread shows a trailer that will make you realize how eve can be fun. and the last post i made is about project legion... its a preview

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1322365
     
  3. old-mac-man macrumors regular

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    #3
    I'm sure each game has websites that will tell you the information you need to decide whether the game is for you.

    Other peoples's opinions on which is best I don't really need being able to make the judgement myself.
     
  4. Janichsan macrumors 65816

    Janichsan

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    #4
    ...and EVE has launched in 2003 and has changed tremendously in the meantime, while ED was released only four weeks ago. And yet it already has sold 300,000 copies (early access included) and is growing.
     
  5. Huntn, Jan 18, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2015

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #5
    Thanks for this feedback! This is the kind of perspective I was looking for but you sound a little irritated. Maybe I'm just imagining that. ;) The purpose of this thread is not to bash Eve but to get an appraisal from those who have played both on what makes them different, pros and cons for each. It's been a while since I've visited the Eve thread. I'll go back and take another look. Thanks for providing the links. I'm actually considering starting up with Eve. The space environment is cool, but I have to have something to do in space that keeps me engaged.

    Regarding subscriptions, I did sign up for a 6 month WoW subscription, but I anticipate when that's over, I'll be done with it .... Again. I'm also paying premium in World of Tanks, but you don't have to in that game if you can live with lower xp accrual. And there are other MMOs out there that I have played that require no subscription like Planetside. Do you have to buy stuff in them? Yeah maybe, but in Planetside, not that much, it was optional, you did not need it to function adequately in game. Now I've aditted I prefer no subscription, and in ED, while there must be stuff I should buy, the only thing I ve seen so far are spiffy paint jobs which I have resisted, lol.

    Regarding solo versus group effort, in WoW, I function mostly solo, but I do group up for the instances, the only way that content can be experienced. But I really enjoy seeing people out and about in the world which makes it more alive. This is the attraction of a MMO.

    All that said, I've been playing ED for a couple of weeks now and honestly I'm not sold on it yet as a long term game. Granted I'm just getting started, but so far it's just a grind. As I mentioned in the ED tips thread, I started with 1000c, worked up to 2300c, had some unfortunately incidents, killed twice by System Authoities and a Space Station (in that case for landing pad loitering) to find myself at 500c, but now I'm up to approx 25000c. Fortunately for the starter ship I was using, that is replaced for free.

    So far the only thing to do are missions, take this or that from point A to point B. Commodity trading= hauling, mining, which honestly I don't find to be engaging, or go bounty hunting which I'm still figuring out the most efficient way to do that. All in all, besides the wonder of navigating a galaxie and interacting with space stations, dogfighting seems to be the primary attraction.

    For a newb, missions are a great way to get familiar with the game, the mechanics of interacting, launching, docking, etc. Navigating the universe is cool for a while, and I even got interdicted by a pirate, making a 5500 bounty off him. But honestly, if this is all there is to do, haul stuff and dogfight, I improbably won't be sticking with ED long term. Don't get me wrong, dogfighting is fun, but I've done all the combat tutorials, but the pirate interdiction seemed ro be eerily similar to the combat tutorials. Yes, so far, I can hold my own in fights. However, I'm quaking a bit, thinking about fighting a human who has learned all the ins and outs of Flight Assist off flying. :p

    Could you describe how combat works in Eve? I probably asked this in the Eve thread, but I've forgotten the answer. I'll try to go back and I review it again. My understanding is that there is not that much maneuvering, but there are choices about how to manage your systems. Instead of maneuvering to put the pepper on the target and squeeze thrpe trigger, you function more like the Captain of a star ship directing his crew on what systems to bear on the enemy.

    For the mechanics of flying/maneuvering, in ED I feel the need for a stick. I assume a joystick is not required for Eve. Thanks for your opinions! :D
     
  6. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #6
    Keep in mind that game websites are selling themselves to potential customers. In some cases game reviews by entities like PCGamer are in the business of talking up new games. I value player player opinion, but recognize that this info must be filtered. :)

    Were you an Eve player? If so, what made you leave? Looking at ED in the brief time I've played it, hauling missions are paltry. They are not plentiful and for newcomers, they pay a pittance, although I managed to complete one that paid 12000 credits. :):) I don't see myself staying engaged with mining or hauling, so dog fighting has to be the main attraction.

    When I look at Eve, the attraction I imagine is territorial conquest and large Guild battles, but I wonder how coordinated those really are, or if they are just big glorified gaggles, lol. :) This is where I am reminded of Homeworld, where scenarios are laid out and you got to manage a fleet during engagements, something in a MMO that might be reminiscent of that. That's where Eve would come in. But huge death penalties seemed to weigh on me too. :)
     
  7. Janichsan macrumors 65816

    Janichsan

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    #7
    Only very shortly. I dabbled with a trial a few years ago. What put me mainly off were the horrible, cluttered UI (that was before they introduced the new, allegedly "more user friendly" UI) and that I could not control my ship directly. Simply wasn't my cup of tea.
     
  8. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #8
    Not to piss anyone in particular off, especially our local Eve fan but... :):)

    I realize this might be premature regarding Star Citizen, but what are your impressions pros and cons of each game and now you think they stack up? In SC's case how will it stack up based on Dev information? Short summaries would be better... :p

    Eve- I only played Eve for a trial. I like the ideas of turf wars and large coordinated fights but I figured I was way too far behind the Eve power curve, railed at the death penalty and passed on it. I assume that it has similiar features to ED like mining and trading. Subscription is a minus. One of the replies in the thread links to an extensive Eve thread.

    Elite Dangerous- From what I've discovered, I mostly enjoy bounty hunting/farming, rumored to be nerfed in the near future. Will that sustain me into the future, for how long? Unknown. More game features are coming. Besides being profitable, trading as a means of entertainment boring. A plus is no subscription. See this youtube video:




    Star Citizen- What is known of this game? See this Star Citizen link. My impression is that currently there is a hanger and some dog fighting? What is known about, what this game is supposed to be about, how will it differentiate itself from its predecessors? Subscription?
     
  9. antonis macrumors 68000

    antonis

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    #9
    I believe that SC shows great potential as a game, but right now some negative points seem to stand out for me. It has surpassed the $68 millions in funding (as of Dec. 2014), but still the game creator thinks it is necessary to sell in-game ships for $100 ( :eek: ) even when the game has so many road ahead before it is released (end of 2016? ). On top of that, I've also heard this is going to be subscription-based. Milking like there's no tomorrow ? Also, I read in wikipedia that it will be released for Windows and Linux (which obviously implies that it will not be for OS X). If this is true, I find it a little weird.

    ED seems and feels like a base platform of a game that it could be evolved to something big. There are potentials, lots of plans and announcements from the devs and the base game engine works great, but it is empty right now. There's nothing to attract the player to get involved. If/when they'll implement all these "random" events and the real factions, the real situations and the game world starts to feel more alive, it might be a real threat for the other on-line space competitors. A final note, though: Many of its future additions (in the form of expansions ?) will not be free (which is fine by me as long as they add significant features).

    I haven't played EVE so I could not comment much on this. I've only read that it is not so much of a space sim, but goes mostly for a ship management approach (e.g. you don't spend your time in front of your ship's cockpit, or there isn't a cockpit at all) , which if it stands true it's not my type of game.
     
  10. Janichsan macrumors 65816

    Janichsan

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    #10
    This is true. Chris Roberts has some pretty strong opinions about Macs:
     
  11. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #11
    I've tried to swear off subscriptions, although if I percieve value I'll pay it. Hence I've been on the WOTs premium for 2 years, although it can be played for free, and currently on a WoW subscription that I'll be dropping in a couple of months. If ED was subscription and I had paid $60 plus a subscription, I'd be pissed. Right now it's limited in what you can do. I like the description billons of systems across, but 1" deep. I am having fun bounty hunting/farming but the rumor is that is being nerfed with the next patch, which boggles my mind. You don't take away one of the few fun things the game offers with nothing to replace it. Who cares if it's not realistic? After there is more stuff to do, then rebalance it. For myself, the difference is no subscription or I would not put up with current offerings. Yes, it has potential. The double edged sword of early release is getting people in there playing, but becoming bored with the lack of things to do.

    Eve is about trading, mining, territorial conquestand and at times, organized combat with ship combat management, and a huge community, but not dog fighting, although they may be working on something like this.

    Star Citizen is an open book with pie in the sky plans. That frutation remains to be seen. I suggest all the fans throw a couple hundred dollars at it, but I'll sit back and see what happens, lol. :)
     
  12. Janichsan macrumors 65816

    Janichsan

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    #12
    "Nerfed" only in the way that you cannot hang around for hours at the same spot and kill endlessly spawning pirates. From the next patch on, you'll have to move around between several locations a bit more. Is that really that much of a problem? In most systems with resource extraction sites, there are more than one, often close together, plus the nav beacon. Moving between these takes you a minute or two. Hardly a game breaker.
     
  13. Huntn, Feb 9, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #13
    It depends. If its like I fear , they are ramping up the grind from current levels which already have more grind then I prefer. Most of my experience is with a single system and granted it has 4 extraction sites close together. You say they are all like this?

    My current BH yardstick, is if you are lucky the game is generating Cobras ($15k) or even Anacondas ($75k) and there are authority ships patrolling. If not lucky, there are primarily Sidewinders ($3k). With Cobras, in about 5 fights, I can earn approx $100k or more. It's going to depend on how much longer it's going to take to earn the same amounts. When you have ships that easily cost $1-6m at $1m, at $3k per fight that's 333 fights.

    http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Resource_Extraction_Site
     
  14. antonis macrumors 68000

    antonis

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    #14
    Well, the main game breaker won't change anyway, regardless the nerf. You need to farm RES points in order to earn credits, so you buy a new ship or upgrade the current ship, so you'll farm better/faster in RES points, so you get more credits (...). ;)
     
  15. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #15
    Um, to get the new ship, you have to earn credits. :p Right now I have almost a million saved up. Considering the Type 6 hauler costs $1m plus maybe another million to outfit, and I need/want about $500k in the bank to cover loss, I'll just keep grinding for now up to $2.5m. :confused: My Cobra costs about $45k to replace. I've had to replace it once after crashing into an asteroid. In most cases, at full health, collisions if not outright killed me, took me down to 12% health. Fortunately repairs are not that expensive if I can get back to station. The Sidewinder was much more forgiving in this regard.
     
  16. Janichsan macrumors 65816

    Janichsan

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    #16
    Almost all of them. I think I have seen systems with just a single RES not more than two or three times. All the dozens others had two or three per ring system, and often several RES containing rings.
     
  17. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #17
    Where the heck are they? ;) The RES link I posted seems to be incomplete.
     
  18. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #18
    Interesting- Elite Dangerous vs Star Citizen vs No Man's Sky:

     
  19. soulsyphon macrumors regular

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    #19
    eve shouldn't be in this thread, the 3 games in that trailer aren't really mmo's... not to argue but... max you'll see is 35 in an instance, most of it is exploring alone or against ai. sure the games are vast and cool but the multiplayer aspect is not really there...

    meanwhile...

    http://community.eveonline.com/releases/tiamat/

    eve keeps on releasing patches (expansions) every month or so ;p
     
  20. kd5jos macrumors 6502

    kd5jos

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    #20
    Fascinating. When Win7 came out the PC with the highest "Windows" score was... a Mac.

    Making a game for linux, and not for the mac is just a way of being an idiot. Here's what I mean. A Mac may not have the most recent graphics drivers like Windows, but neither does linux.

    Hey guys look, I got Star Citizen up and running again... lets see if we can beat ten minutes of stability before the system crashes.

    I'd like to have fun, if he could keep his ego out of the way... I'd like to have fun, but if I have to drop to a lesser platform (one with 700% more vulnerabilities like Windows) I may have to pass...
     
  21. antonis macrumors 68000

    antonis

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    #21
    You are spot on, in every single point. His ego; well, he proved that when he started selling in-game ships for $100 for a subscription-based game that is going to be released in 2 years for now, and has a huge amount in funding already.

    Is he going to release such a beastly game for Linux ? Well, good luck with that. I have to assume that he's going to support a very small list of distributions and - even then - with very tight restrictions. All it will take to bring the game down, will be just an automatic daily update to some system package.

    I do get his preference for Windows, though. It is the most capable gaming platform beyond any doubt. But he's aiming too high for this game, and he already has taken some weird decisions.
     
  22. Huntn, Feb 11, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #22
    I can't say for sure. Inside space ships are instances. This is why pads will never be full. Out in space, I don't know if you are in "open play". I found a discussion on Frontier forums that said as much, ie instances, , but these were players talking, not the Devs. I can see the advantage and the appeal of having large coordinated battles. How often does thst happen in Eve? And what happens to your frame rate? ;)
     
  23. soulsyphon macrumors regular

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    #23
    yes the systems in elite are instances, which is why it caps at 35 ships... if ship number 36 wants to fly in the system you're in, hes going to be a loner in another instance while you with the rest of the 35 won't see him at all. if 4000 people come to this system, it will be split by 4000/35 creating 100+ instances of the same system...

    in eve big battles happen all the time, depends what your definition of big is. the biggest battles happen about once a month or so. frame rate stays fine except the system falls into 'tidi' which is time dilation. if there is 4000 players in the system, time is delayed by like 10 seconds so server doesn't crash. but only for that system, the rest of the systems are fine.

    big battles are called blobs and cost a lot of real life money for those who buy plex (19$ item that can be traded for in game currency)

    ps: i have attached an image with stats about a big battle that happened in the game
     

    Attached Files:

  24. Shivetya macrumors 65816

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    #24
    I pretty much skipped funding for that game when he went full retard on his comments about the Mac. Really dude, Macs have been fine since they went Intel.
     
  25. Huntn, Feb 16, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2015

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #25
    I admit that the idea of big battles is compelling if the costs are not too great. In Eve would the majority of those ships be covered by insurance? And if not fully covered how much out of pocket expense is there as far as time commitment to recover?

    This is primarily what I dont like about this kind of game structure. In ED my $960k Cobra as equipped is $48k to replace with insurance. If I'm bagging Sidewinders, that is on average 20 bounties. If Cobras, that's about 5 bounties. You might argue that's not too bad, except if I have a $9m ship, that's $450k to replace. Granted if I am shooting Anacondas at $75k that's only 6 bounties, but it still strikes me as big money, especially With some bad luck and after a loss, immediately lose your ship a second time and are now out $900k. Compare that to a World of Tanks tier 9 tank which costs $3.5m to purchase but worst case cost, without a subscription (called premium, which buffers expenses by 50%) costs about $24k to repair. It's called repair, but this is to replace the tank. If my figures are right that is less than 1% of purchase price. I understand the idea of having substantial game penalties for failure, but there is a line when crossed, that will drive down participation.

    My description above is based solely on ED bounty hunting. Granted there is reported to be big money in trading, which is not as dangerous, and the entire game landcape is not as dangerous as you can log into a private group or even solo, making the game a much safer environment that Eve nilsec or whatever they call it. I'm not saying that is more fun, but for some who are expense contious, it might be. ;)
     

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