Agreed on this. If he expects all the answers he shouldn't post here. I'm sure OP knows what he's getting into by posting on this forum.
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Agreed on this. If he expects all the answers he shouldn't post here. I'm sure OP knows what he's getting into by posting on this forum.
With respect, I beg to differ.
The word 'guy' has never meant a youngster, or young boy, in any understanding of language, historically or otherwise. Rather, it has always meant a male, age indeterminate: Whereas, on the other hand, the word 'boy' has been used both to describe a young male, and, when used to address an adult, has been used as a term with implied, or explicit, condescension which is why it was used, and was intended to be used, as an offensive term in the old apartheid era South Africa when Afrikaners addressed blacks, for example, as 'boy'. The late Nelson Mandela wrote very perceptively about the way he was addressed as 'boy' when in prison, and how he refused to respond to his gaolers when so addressed, demanding that he be addressed with the respect due to an adult, and spoken to as a man, instead.
You never hear women say that they are dating 'boys'; instead, they'll say that they are dating a 'guy', or a 'bloke'. Indeed, one of the few times the word is used to describe adult males is when the expression 'boys will be boys' is used, almost invariably used to describe (or acknowledge) something which in fact, they 'boys' in question, shouldn't have been doing.
If the term 'boy' and 'girl' were used in equal terms when describing such relationships - which they are not - I would not question it. However, when used in the above context, I do question it, and will continue to do so.
So, to sum up, yes, I find the term 'girl' when used to describe a relationship a chap has with an adult woman unsettling, subtly belittling, and yes, a disempowering and infantilising term; the British expression 'lass' is used in a much more neutral way, and is often used with positive adjectives in both speech and writing.
Right, because men never say "That girl is beautiful". It's always tongue in cheek. Your logic is the definition of stretching to make a point.:roll eyes:
Add to that, many girls (sorry, women) enjoy the idea of the youth implied in the term girl. It doesn't mean child anymore. My wife is in her 30s and she likes the term girl because it implies some youth.
Right, because men never say "That girl is beautiful". It's always tongue in cheek. Your logic is the definition of stretching to make a point.
No, my logic stands. I think the bias is subtle, unrecognised, and probably unconscious. However, the resistance to acknowledging the unconscious values behind the use of any such word in such a context is, to my mind, quite revealing.
Even if they do, you'd expect them to act like his loyal friends and take his side....as you suggest, his friends certainly aren't disinterested parties.
We'll chalk it up to a cultural difference, then. I understand my sample size is relatively small, but I have never met an American female who considers it offensive or belittling to be referred to as a girl.
Also, I would never refer to a female as "lass" and I don't know anyone who would refer to a female as lass.
That's all the evidence you need, move on from her. Our time on this planet is far too short to keep people in it for longer than they should be. Cut the cord, there are lots of great people out there for you to meet.
Okay. Fair comment, and point taken. Cultures do differ across the Pond.
In the UK, expressions such as 'cracking lass', 'smashing lass' 'terrific lass' have all been used as positives - by chaps (and by women when describing the young ladies dating their sons).
On the other hand, to women, the term 'gal' would not be considered offensive; as the word would never be used to describe a child, it carries the connotation of the female equivalent of 'guy' - a neutral or positive noun which describes an adult.
Very good advice
that girl is not over her ex yet and you run the risk of being the rebound guy
doesnt mean youre not 'good enough'
it just means that her relationship with her ex was deep, and she isnt out of it yet.
That's interesting. I don't know what age it would be we stop referring to females as "girls". It has a lot to do with your age relative to the female. I would never call someone in their 50s a "girl" seeing as I'm in my 20s, but if I were 50 and the female were 50, "girl" would still be acceptable.
There is some truth in this, actually. You seem to have hit on something, and again, fair comment.
For what it is worth, I have heard couples (the sort of couple in their fifties, or sixties, or seventies, long married, comfortable with themselves and with the other, content and easy and happy with it) addressing each other in such a tone, a tone of fond affection, where the male partner would say something along the lines of 'Well, old girl, fancy a coffee?' and she would smile, and usually reply in the affirmative.
As a 45 y/o bloke living in the uk, I have no problem with the use of the term 'girl' to describe a woman. Neither does my 43 y/o GIRL friend (I just asked her)! To be honest, I think someone is trying to score points here....raising complete non-issues and diverting away from the OP main question. In fact, there is a very successful ad campaign going on in the UK for Boots the chemist....the music track used...? "Here come the girls"....target market? Women aged 18 to 35. See here... http://youtu.be/QVuRNylAj4c
Back to the main question.....
Go with the previous post about listen to your gut instinct......I ignored my gut instinct in a similar situation once....wanted to believe her, but was wrong to be so trusting. You live and learn.....
I hear "boys" and "girls" all the time from those in their 50s and 60s. ...it's a familiar form of address among friends.
I have a client who's in his 80s. His girlfriend refers to him as her boyfriend all the time.
Asking a bunch of old fogies for relationship advice who were probably courting damsels in the roaring 20s, is probably not a good idea.
Nothing is wrong with this place. It's an internet forum.Dear god, I can't believe this has devolved into whether or not it's ok to call a 20 year old girl a girl. Yes, it's highly problematic to call a 20 year old a girl.
What's wrong with this place?
not everyone who is OLD is an ADULT, legally sure, but mentally? far from it.
Yes, I know. You hear so much about the open minds and broad tolerance of young people today, but I must say that I see little evidence of it on some of these fora.
However, the frisson of real annoyance when the exceedingly limited vocabulary of dating and romance, - as expressed by those who think it appropriate (or, rather, fail to see why some of us deem it entirely inappropriate) to refer to an adult woman as a 'girl' are questioned - and the pernicious and patronising attitudes which underpin this, - is something I find rather funny, and sad, and rather depressing, all at the same time.
Now, those who wish to counsel the OP, on his dilemmas, please feel free to do so. And, for those who wish to vent and huff when I question their vocabulary and the assumptions which may govern how that vocabulary is used, - do please again (First Amendment And All That) be my guest.
However, I claim the same - ah, - rights. And language, and the assumptions which lie behind it, as it is used to describe and define people, groups, ethnicities, and indeed, genders, is something that I find fascinating and will continue to comment on, here and elsewhere.
I've been following this thread since it started and have to chime in with an observation. A lot of people are putting responsibility on the "woman" but it seems to me that the OP got a little more emotionally attached to her way too soon, I can't even say in "the relationship" because they didn't have a relationship. The OP said they were hitting it off for a month, and then asked her out implying they have not even started dating. Just seems curious to me.
more language shocks coming your way perhaps;
if you're ever out in public and see a group of american college, um, females.....you might indeed hear one of them address the rest of the group saying something like "hey you guys, let's go etc etc...." despite the fact there aren't any males in the group at all.
"bloke"??? that's not a word a woman in the US is ever apt to use....unless she's an immigrant from some other country......clearly you're not living in the US
"lass" ??? another word that's not really in wide use in the US. If you used it here, perhaps you ought to have a british accent to go with it.
I think what's tripping you up is that what may/may not be neutral wording where you are, simply isn't the same as in the US.
if you're ever out in public and see a group of american college, um, females.....you might indeed hear one of them address the rest of the group saying something like "hey you guys, let's go etc etc...." despite the fact there aren't any males in the group at all.
"bloke"??? that's not a word a woman in the US is ever apt to use....unless she's an immigrant from some other country......clearly you're not living in the US
"lass" ??? another word that's not really in wide use in the US. If you used it here, perhaps you ought to have a british accent to go with it.
I think what's tripping you up is that what may/may not be neutral wording where you are, simply isn't the same as in the US.
Dear god, I can't believe this has devolved into whether or not it's ok to call a 20 year old girl a girl. Yes, it's highly problematic to call a 20 year old a girl.
What's wrong with this place?
I'm not one to complain about PC, but calling a female of like age a girl is not belittling anyone.
swap girl for boy and the same applies to me
i like the youth boy implies when applied to me
don't mind it at all and most certainly don't take it as a sign of 'disrespect'
but even if i did; being 'disrespected' doesn't anger me.. i feel being 'respected' is so grossly overemphasized/-rated these days it's not even funny anymore
...but that's a whole 'nother discussion
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