Excessive & Vulgar Language

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
A number of posts were removed as the thread was derailed, this thread is about how members comport themselves regardless of their politics. Please stay on topic

 

[nnoble]

LOL. Okay. Ethics.
On a side note. This subject should also have the 100 post rule. No opinions and complaints until you've been around a while and earned a place. Would have spared us one pointless and unproductive comment.

Clearly, a few numbers under your avatar does not imply wisdom. This contributor may have 'newbie' as an appendage but that does not imply he was born yesterday.
[doublepost=1484222550][/doublepost]

We are way beyond lazy language!

Speak for yourself. There is nothing clever, brave or manly about being uncivilised. Very little can trump good manners.

 

[Cineplex]

Clearly, a few numbers under your avatar does not imply wisdom. This contributor may have 'newbie' as an appendage but that does not imply he was born yesterday.
[doublepost=1484222550][/doublepost] Speak for yourself. There is nothing clever, brave or manly about being uncivilised. Very little can trump good manners.

1) You should have to earn the right to make suggestions or criticisms. You don't just walk into Germany and tell them how to change their culture after 1 hour.

2) The number 1 feature of Apple products is Emojis. Need I say more?

 

[nnoble]

1) You should have to earn the right to make suggestions or criticisms. You don't just walk into Germany and tell them how to change their culture after 1 hour.

Macrumors is not a sovereign nation and in my opinion and experience, foul, disgusting language is not an intrinsic part of the culture of the forum. Furthermore, suggestions and criticisms should be welcomed from all who care to actively contribute. I was watching these forums long before I ever registered. Don't read too much into the term 'newbie'.


2) The number 1 feature of Apple products is Emojis. Need I say more?

If you insist on sticking by this assertion then yes, you do need to explain further, since on the face of it, it is simply a throw away puerile remark. I have a small number of Apple products and Emojis go largely unnoticed and unused by me. Even for those who do make use of them, my guess is they do not consider them to be a 'number 1 feature' for which they are prepared to pay premium prices. However, the purpose of this thread is language and I'm prepared to support the sentiments of the OP. I've had a full career in the military and even in that context the language quoted above would have been unacceptable. It should not become part of the accepted culture of Macrumors since it is language that deters people from participating because of guilt by association. Anyone, regardless of their status, has a right to criticise.

 

[Cineplex]

If you insist on sticking by this assertion then yes, you do need to explain further, since on the face of it, it is simply a throw away puerile remark. I have a small number of Apple products and Emojis go largely unnoticed and unused by me. Even for those who do make use of them, my guess is they do not consider them to be a 'number 1 feature' for which they are prepared to pay premium prices. However, the purpose of this thread is language and I'm prepared to support the sentiments of the OP. I've had a full career in the military and even in that context the language quoted above would have been unacceptable. It should not become part of the accepted culture of Macrumors since it is language that deters people from participating because of guilt by association. Anyone, regardless of their status, has a right to criticise.

Based on the number of posts on this site and its daily traffic....I don't think it's a big problem. The post quality reflects the poster and not the site. So far this post has attracted less than 1% of the registered users to comment. If people really cared....this thread would be on fire. The internet is not Downton Abbey....its the internet. Have a look around....you might find this place to be civilized compared to the rest of the net.

Should people put a little more thought into how to speak and act? Sure. But moderation and cleansing of this isn't going to solve the problem and may result in members leaving. At the end of the day this is a casual forum for people of all walks of life to talk or comment on Apple and related topics. It is not a white tie event.

Just because some people have a more dignified upbringing, that doesn't mean everyone else should be held to the same standard....especially here....on the internet. Your perfect cookie cutter world will never exist here.

Keep in mind...I agree with you....people should be better. I just don't think it's something that should be forced upon them on the internet of all places.

 

[C DM]

Based on the number of posts on this site and its daily traffic....I don't think it's a big problem. The post quality reflects the poster and not the site. So far this post has attracted less than 1% of the registered users to comment. If people really cared....this thread would be on fire. The internet is not Downton Abbey....its the internet. Have a look around....you might find this place to be civilized compared to the rest of the net.

Should people put a little more thought into how to speak and act? Sure. But moderation and cleansing of this isn't going to solve the problem and may result in members leaving. At the end of the day this is a casual forum for people of all walks of life to talk or comment on Apple and related topics. It is not a white tie event.

Just because some people have a more dignified upbringing, that doesn't mean everyone else should be held to the same standard....especially here....on the internet. Your perfect cookie cutter world will never exist here.

Keep in mind...I agree with you....people should be better. I just don't think it's something that should be forced upon them on the internet of all places.

Well, to be fair, the vast majority doesn't even know about this section in the forum and doesn't look into it or its threads.

As for upgrading and all that, it doesn't really change fairly basic and common sense of how people should act in various environments (like public, work, etc.).

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Based on the number of posts on this site and its daily traffic....I don't think it's a big problem. The post quality reflects the poster and not the site. So far this post has attracted less than 1% of the registered users to comment. If people really cared....this thread would be on fire. The internet is not Downton Abbey....its the internet. Have a look around....you might find this place to be civilized compared to the rest of the net.

Should people put a little more thought into how to speak and act? Sure. But moderation and cleansing of this isn't going to solve the problem and may result in members leaving. At the end of the day this is a casual forum for people of all walks of life to talk or comment on Apple and related topics. It is not a white tie event.

Just because some people have a more dignified upbringing, that doesn't mean everyone else should be held to the same standard....especially here....on the internet. Your perfect cookie cutter world will never exist here.

Keep in mind...I agree with you....people should be better. I just don't think it's something that should be forced upon them on the internet of all places.

I daresay that if this thread was started in the sewer bed that is PRSI on occasion, the reactions would be a lot more robust, - perhaps even vehement.

However, I will say that there is an enormous difference between the conduct expected (and indeed, encouraged) at a "white tie event" and basic courtesy.

Online etiquette does not have to fit into a binary construct of antique manners, or bottomless boorishness.

And, as for 'cookie cutter' manners, or "forcing people to behave" or put thought into what they write, the rights afforded by the venerated First Amendment need not triumph - or trump - the notion of signalling a basic respect for others in online interactions.

Besides, in real life, I would not tolerate the poor manners from colleagues, friends, family, or students, and see no reason why boorish insult ought to be allowed replace respectful differences in opinion. It ought to be perfectly possible to disagree and debate without trading insult, where, what you do is attack the person not the argument.

 

[Dranix]

It's kinda strange. Is the us so political correct now that normal speech is bad? Some things even possibly between my boss and my colleagues in Germany appears to be world shattering vulgar to the normal American. This is really hard to grasp for me.

 

[ardchoille50]

It's kinda strange. Is the us so political correct now that normal speech is bad? Some things even possibly between my boss and my colleagues in Germany appears to be world shattering vulgar to the normal American. This is really hard to grasp for me.

I feel that a person's definition of "normal speech" may have something to do with it.

Two examples:

1. "I'm ****ing p****d off! This is ****** up"

2. "I'm furious!"

It is my opinion that both examples get the point across, but the second example does it in a more efficient manner.

 

[phrehdd]

I feel that a person's definition of "normal speech" may have something to do with it.

Two examples:

1. "I'm ****ing p****d off! This is ****** up"

2. "I'm furious!"

It is my opinion that both examples get the point across, but the second example does it in a more efficient manner.

If one is interested only in economy of speech I would agree. However, some folks prefer to show depth or measure of a feeling and thus the first choice would show that emotion rather than simply saying what emotion one has. As for me, having been raise multi-cultural, I tend to consider the source though at times I may get annoyed with one's choice of words that by laziness doesn't consider the reader/audience.

 

[ardchoille50]

If one is interested only in economy of speech I would agree. However, some folks prefer to show depth or measure of a feeling and thus the first choice would show that emotion rather than simply saying what emotion one has. As for me, having been raise multi-cultural, I tend to consider the source though at times I may get annoyed with one's choice of words that by laziness doesn't consider the reader/audience.

Very good points. I especially like the one about considering the audience.

 

[Dranix]

I feel that a person's definition of "normal speech" may have something to do with it.

Two examples:

1. "I'm ****ing p****d off! This is ****** up"

2. "I'm furious!"

It is my opinion that both examples get the point across, but the second example does it in a more efficient manner.

Well the first one has a huge advantage: It reduces the build up steam. The second doesn't. Is showing feelings so strange?

 

[ardchoille50]

Well the first one has a huge advantage: It reduces the build up steam. The second doesn't. Is showing feelings so strange?

A good point, and a good question. When I become aware of the buildup of steam, I immediately ask myself how much power I'm willing to allow this situation to have over me. It is usually then that the phrase "toothless lion" comes to mind.

To answer your question, no, I don't feel it strange to show emotion. However, I do feel there is a difference between showing emotion and allowing a situation to have an inordinate amount of control over me.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

It's kinda strange. Is the us so political correct now that normal speech is bad? Some things even possibly between my boss and my colleagues in Germany appears to be world shattering vulgar to the normal American. This is really hard to grasp for me.

There is "political correctness", and there is courtesy.

There is also prudence, and respect for others.

And there is being able to express your annoyance without seeking recourse to abusive - and offensive - language.

Above all, there is a distinction that can be drawn between the sort of speech used in the 'formal' or 'public' seeing and that used in the 'informal' or private setting.

In any case, I can think of no work environment I have worked in - and I have worked with many different nationalities, in multi-cultural environments - where it would have been considered acceptable to use that sort of language to a colleague or superior.

Well the first one has a huge advantage: It reduces the build up steam. The second doesn't. Is showing feelings so strange?

Yes, it is, depending on the context.

We are not two year olds, who must explode when frustrated. Part of being an adult is that you are able to exercise a degree of self control and put some thought into your exchanges with others.

And yes, too, because your right to express your feelings as strongly as possible may not take into account how this may come across to others.

 

[Cineplex]

There is "political correctness", and there is courtesy.

There is also prudence, and respect for others.

And there is being able to express your annoyance without seeking recourse to abusive - and offensive - language.

Above all, there is a distinction that can be drawn between the sort of speech used in the 'formal' or 'public' seeing and that used in the 'informal' or private setting.

In any case, I can think of no work environment I have worked in - and I have worked with many different nationalities, in multi-cultural environments - where it would have been considered acceptable to use that sort of language to a colleague or superior.



Yes, it is, depending on the context.

We are not two year olds, who must explode when frustrated. Part of being an adult is that you are able to exercise a degree of self control and put some thought into your exchanges with others.

And yes, too, because your right to express your feelings as strongly as possible may not take into account how this may come across to others.

My God! Sometimes "Apple sucks a**!" is the appropriate statement. Just let people be who they are and not mindless drones. It isn't the Victorian era anymore. Being offended everytime someone uses colorful language is going to lead to living a lifetime in a "safe space". Maybe the offended ones should just be adults and move on with life. Maybe it's time to put on the tolerance and acceptance hat...oh ya...that only applies if you agree with the person...never mind.

Again...I agree we should all be better.....but that just isn't reality and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it but complain to the echo chamber that is this thread.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

My God! Sometimes "Apple sucks a**!" is the appropriate statement. Just let people be who they are and not mindless drones. It isn't the Victorian era anymore. Being offended everytime someone uses colorful language is going to lead to living a lifetime in a "safe space". Maybe the offended ones should just be adults and move on with life. Maybe it's time to put on the tolerance and acceptance hat...oh ya...that only applies if you agree with the person...never mind.

Again...I agree we should all be better.....but that just isn't reality and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it but complain to the echo chamber that is this thread.

But why the need to use what you describe as "colourful language" in the first place? Language is rich and allows for the clear expression of frustration - and indeed, anger - without recourse to offensive and 'colourful' language.

I am not arguing for a conformist society, and I am not a "mindless drone", neither personally, nor professionally (indeed, much of the time, my professional job entails that sort of "speaking truth to power" that - it seems, - may currently be running the risk of becoming unfashionable in certain circles about to assume office and power).

Instead, my argument is that criticism can be articulate and pointed, with the need for insulting, abusive, rude, offensive, coarse and crude speech.

And that to allow it, condones it and enables and facilitates it, rendering such forms of speech a 'an acceptable new norm'.

You can make the argument that "Apple has sold its soul", or no longer values creative and innovative and breath-taking design in its computing arm, (as the possibilities for generating large profits increasingly lie elsewhere) without resorting to vulgar and offensive language.

It is not about "safe spaces" but about courtesy and respect for the person with whom you are communicating. One can speak truth politely - and no less sharply for that.

And, it is also about asking what the speaker (or writer) wished to achieve with this: Simply to vent, shout with a satisfying release of frustrated rage, or to challenge - or possibly seek to change - minds and present an argument.

Thus, my argument is not about "speaking truth", or saying what you want to say: It is about how you say it.

And, a coarsened society is a less civil and less courteous - and less respectful - place to be. This is because the right to insult and offend will usually take the intellectually lazy short cut of attacking what the person is (a person of colour, someone who is gay, someone who is female) rather than address - and challenge, and call out - what they stand for, or what they did.

 

[adrianlondon]

I feel that a person's definition of "normal speech" may have something to do with it.

Two examples:

1. "I'm ****ing p****d off! This is ****** up"

2. "I'm furious!"

It is my opinion that both examples get the point across, but the second example does it in a more efficient manner.

I say (1) out loud, or under my breath if I'm in the office, and type (2). Best of both worlds!

 

[ardchoille50]

But why the need to use what you describe as "colourful language" in the first place? Language is rich and allows for the clear expression of frustration - and indeed, anger - without recourse to offensive and 'colourful' language.

I am not arguing for a conformist society, and I am not a "mindless drone", neither professionally (indeed, much of the time, my professional job entails that sort of "speaking truth to power" that - it seems, - may currently be running the risk of becoming unfashionable in certain circles about to assume office and power) nor personally.

Instead, my argument is that criticism can be articulate and pointed, with the need for insulting, abusive, rude, offensive coarse and crude speech. And that to allow it, condones it and enables and facilitates it, rendering such forms of speech a 'an acceptable new norm'.

You can make the argument that "Apple has sold its soul", or no longer values creative and innovative and breath-taking design in its computing arm, (as the possibility for generating large profits increasingly lie elsewhere) without resorting to vulgar and offensive language.

It is not about "safe spaces" but about courtesy and respect for the person with whom you are communicating. One can speak truth politely - and no less sharply for that.

And, it is also about asking what the speaker (or writer) wished to achieve with this: Simply to vent, shout with a satisfying release of frustrated rage, or to change minds and present an argument.

Thus, my argument is not about "speaking truth", or saying what you want to say: It is about how you say it.

And, a coarsened society is a less civil and less courteous - and less respectful - place to be. This is because the right to insult and offend will usually take the intellectually lazy short cut of attacking what the person is (a person of colour, someone who is gay, someone who is female) rather than address - and challenge, and call out - what they stand for, or what they did.

Bravo, well said!

 

[Cineplex]

But why the need to use what you describe as "colourful language" in the first place? Language is rich and allows for the clear expression of frustration - and indeed, anger - without recourse to offensive and 'colourful' language.

I am not arguing for a conformist society, and I am not a "mindless drone", neither personally, nor professionally (indeed, much of the time, my professional job entails that sort of "speaking truth to power" that - it seems, - may currently be running the risk of becoming unfashionable in certain circles about to assume office and power).

Instead, my argument is that criticism can be articulate and pointed, with the need for insulting, abusive, rude, offensive, coarse and crude speech.

And that to allow it, condones it and enables and facilitates it, rendering such forms of speech a 'an acceptable new norm'.

You can make the argument that "Apple has sold its soul", or no longer values creative and innovative and breath-taking design in its computing arm, (as the possibilities for generating large profits increasingly lie elsewhere) without resorting to vulgar and offensive language.

It is not about "safe spaces" but about courtesy and respect for the person with whom you are communicating. One can speak truth politely - and no less sharply for that.

And, it is also about asking what the speaker (or writer) wished to achieve with this: Simply to vent, shout with a satisfying release of frustrated rage, or to challenge - or possibly seek to change - minds and present an argument.

Thus, my argument is not about "speaking truth", or saying what you want to say: It is about how you say it.

And, a coarsened society is a less civil and less courteous - and less respectful - place to be. This is because the right to insult and offend will usually take the intellectually lazy short cut of attacking what the person is (a person of colour, someone who is gay, someone who is female) rather than address - and challenge, and call out - what they stand for, or what they did.

lol

Maybe then you should start your own forum....."The Sophisticated Gentlemen's Club Of Elite Upper Echelon Victorian Mac Users In Regards To Rumors"

Just because a few of you fell out of an episode of The Crown doesn't mean we are all going to act high society.

 

[kazmac]

As angry as I was at Apple, I tried to reign in the profanity and such (though some might say my grammar is utterly foul). In all seriousness, I approached my posting here the same as I do elsewhere: not using profanity and /or vulgar language is the norm on other boards I participate in So why start now.

I know the mods and staff are discussing how to deal with the massive influx of beep-beep that some forum members are engaging in, and I respect both sides. It is nice not to have to read that.

I also avoid political and religious threads where possible, but that is my choice.

 

[C DM]

lol

Maybe then you should start your own forum....."The Sophisticated Gentlemen's Club Of Elite Upper Echelon Victorian Mac Users In Regards To Rumors"

Just because a few of you fell out of an episode of The Crown doesn't mean we are all going to act high society.

Well, that could easily apply in the same manner the other way around too.

 

[mobilehaathi]

lol

Maybe then you should start your own forum....."The Sophisticated Gentlemen's Club Of Elite Upper Echelon Victorian Mac Users In Regards To Rumors"

Just because a few of you fell out of an episode of The Crown doesn't mean we are all going to act high society.

The number of people who attack/denigrate/dismiss another for speaking well or, as the case may be, composing a literate message never ceases to amaze me.

I suppose her response was just too much for you.

 

[phrehdd]

Well alas, there is vulgar language and then the art of being vulgar. I prefer the latter in most cases as no vulgar words or expletives needed. Sadly, the powers that be here don't like the art of being vulgar (either to drive a point or for humour's sake).

 

[Septembersrain]

While I think having verbal etiquette can be good in situations, I can also understand the need for vulgarity.

The biggest problem is that those who don't agree with the other side will always chide said side.

Instead of just accepting that everyone has a different idea of formality, they were raised in a different culture, their lifestyle encompasses different elements than your own, You seek to belittle or look down upon them vigorously.

If you do not like something that is fine. It is absolutely your right. However, being intolerant of a person because they curse or because they refuse to is outrageously intolerant.

Stop with the mummers farce.

 

[Cineplex]

While I think having verbal etiquette can be good in situations, I can also understand the need for vulgarity.

The biggest problem is that those who don't agree with the other side will always chide said side.

Instead of just accepting that everyone has a different idea of formality, they were raised in a different culture, their lifestyle encompasses different elements than your own, You seek to belittle or look down upon them vigorously.

If you do not like something that is fine. It is absolutely your right. However, being intolerant of a person because they curse or because they refuse to is outrageously intolerant.

Stop with the mummers farce.

This person gets it!
[doublepost=1484881441][/doublepost]

The number of people who attack/denigrate/dismiss another for speaking well or, as the case may be, composing a literate message never ceases to amaze me.

I suppose her response was just too much for you.

That's even funnier! You think I am attacking this person for being a literacy superstar and ignoring their point because of that. Nice.

Maybe you just can't handle the fact that I DONT AGREE WITH THEM! That's it. It has nothing to do with the presentation. I don't care if their point is in Shakespearean English or American Ebonics. I DONT AGREE.

Everyone is a victim here! Can't convince people to agree so we have to make ourselves the victim of some injustice. That explains a lot on this forum and the state of the world.