Exclusive: Apple Plasma Displays to Rock MWSF (PowerPage.org)

[MarcelV]

You want your box? then plug it. You want radio on the Ipod?, buy the gadget and plug it -- the core concept remains; clean at both ends, the hardware and the content service. Apple will only deliver the hardware when the content is ready, and if that is not now it will be soon.

I think you missed the point of my post. Maybe not. Plugging in a box is not clean. Unless Apple will be able to build a Directv receiver
, a Dish Network receiver and all of the different cable boxes out there (not even considering international). Only then this concept of the clean screen with the morphing remote will work. If you can't provide all of the content, this clean system is not there yet. It's the main reason MS is hard trying (reasonable successful) to get in the back-end service and content delivery (AT&T and Verizon have signed with them). That said, it means they are able to integrate a back-end system with the front-end Livingroom experience. It's not there and we will be several year from there, but this stage is important.

I am not sure how much you are into Home Theatre and more, but I can tell you, at my coffee table, I have laying around 6 remotes. None of the 'Multi functional' remotes work. And I have spent a lot on those things! (That include a 600 dollar one, but still too complicated and much too hard to setup to make it work). Because we're not there yet, I don't think Apple will launch this multi-purpose display. There is no way they can provide this special clean experience where they are famous for. And that may hurt the Apple brand name. But that's just my opinion and it's a humble one. And I hope SJ will prove me wrong. If so, anyone wants a 52" Pioneer Elite? It may be for sale

 

[686freak]

Plasma or not it seems true

Found thie article from reuters on the CES conference titled "Line between PC and TV blurring." Interesting read. All sign point to an all-in one TV media hub for the living room.
Some quotes:
"much-heralded convergence of technologies gains momentum."

"Computer makers increasingly are migrating from the desktop to home theaters with high-definition, wide-screen televisions and sophisticated audio systems. Television companies are embracing computer and Internet technology to bring video, movies, photos, and music to almost every room in the home."
"ease of use is paramount"
"digital computer technology is at the heart of the units that channel entertainment content such as music and movies to flat-panel screens and audio systems."
The link is here:
https://us.etrade.com/e/t/invest/Story?ID=STORYID%3De-trade_delv_2006_01_07_etrade_reuters-eng-reuters_AFTER-LONG-WAIT-LINE-BETWEEN-PCS-TVS-BLURRING&provider=ReutersUSTechnologyOnlineReport
this is my first post so hopefully this worked.

 

[sw1tcher]

Makes sense to me. Steve Jobs announces immediate availability of SED displays at Macworld 2006 with shipping in the second half of 2007.

How can something be immediately available if it doesn't ship until "the second half of 2007?"

 

[MarcelV]

It makes you wonder why one of the cable or media companies hasn't picked up Tivo just for its technology.

As I understand, there are only 2 interesting patents in the Tivo portfolio that you're not easily can work around if you want to build a 'Tivo' clone.

The first one is, and most important one, is name based recording. This is a big one. Looking up the title in a list, hit record and set a season pass.
The second one is the program rating (thumbs up/down). The last one is considered a nicety, not really necessary. But are those worth the 444M? Other patents you can work around as Replay, Dish Network and others do. And yes, Dish is in a lawsuit with Tivo (I don't believe it is settled yet) But I believe this one is for the name based recording.

 

[mhouse]

This is an odd point of view...

I wondered the same thing, and the only practical solution is a hot-swappable or easily replaced motherboard/"computer". Like 42-inch HD display meets iMac meets Xserve: hot-swapple CPU and harddrive units in a big, flat display.

I'm not saying it's incorrect or wrong by any means, I just don't get the logic of it.

Apple *already* sells the iMac G5 which, after 3 years or so (five or six at the most) is pretty close to useless. And, yes, I know that you can still do some things with a computer that old, e-mail, surf, yadda-yadda-yadda. But, as a computer, its pretty obsolete. You can't even use it as a display for a new Mac.

Given that fact, why on Earth would Apple not sell a plasma with some built in mac/media center functionality? Especially considering that, even if the built in computer components became obsolete in 3 or 4 years, the machine would still be a perfectly good general purpose television.

I've seen several posts that argue that Apple would *never* stick the media center and the TV together. Can anyone tell me why you think that...given that Apple has been willing to sell a device (the iMac) that becomes much more solidly obsolete after a few years than a plasma TV would?

 

[Val-kyrie]

Firewire, HANA, and Apple

Check it out. If this is true it will be sweet but expensive. However, PP also says no more firewire which I think is BS so who knows how reliable. The news in this article is encoded in some strange story about buying food at a gas station but I think the info is supposed to be genuine but not how it was obtained.

http://www.powerpage.org/archives/2006/01/exclusive_apple_plasma_displays_to_rock_mwsf.html#008526

Although I can envision an Apple plasma display, I find it difficult to accept the lack of firewire support. However, perhaps it has something to do with the new HANA standard. From PCWorld (I am only quoting part of the article here):


Today @ PC World

News, opinion, and links from the PC World staff.
See all Today @ PC World.


FireWire Killed the Ethernet Star?


Posted by Narasu Rebbapragada
Saturday, January 07, 2006, 03:01 PM (PST)


"HANA, the High-Definition Audio-Video Network Alliance, is championing IEEE 1394, aka FireWire, as the universal connector among networks of consumer electronics products carrying HD content. This poses some interesting issues for interoperability with PC-based home networks, which are Ethernet- based.

Launched in 2005, HANA consists of 15 to 20 companies including Sun Microsystems, Samsung, and NBC Universal. All HANA-certified devices would connect via FireWire, would be discoverable to one another, and would communicate with one another with one remote control and without the need for drivers or firmware updates. The first HANA-certified products are expected for release at next year's Consumer Electronics Show.

HANA takes advantage of the FCC mandate that HD-capable cable devices have a 1394 (FireWire) connection upon request. HANA says that FireWire, which was designed to transfer media, is preferable to Ethernet for moving HD content since FireWire better handles QoS prioritization, in other words, streams video better.

Sounds great, doesn't it? Sure, except that there are now some troubling implications for integrating your TV-based network with your PC-based network.

HANA works closely with the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) and has designed this FireWire-based system to heavily protect digital rights management. HANA devices control the flow of DRM-protected content, allowing it to stream from PC- networks to home entertainment systems but, to prevent file sharing, not the other way around. Plus right now, the MPAA doesn't allow HANA devices to use wireless technologies. HANA networks are wired only."

 

[macidiot]

Yeah, Apple is profitable, but it's trading at 60 TIMES it's PROJECTED earnings. If you think that's a good return on investment, than you really are the macidiot.

I don't know what Apple computer company your talking about. But in this world, Apple computer trades at 48 times current earnings(ttm). And its forward p/e is 34. That would be 34 TIMES its PROJECTED earnings.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=t&s=AAPL

Which sounds like a pretty reasonable premium for a premier company that is growing significantly faster than the sector and s&p. I didn't say the stock was cheap.

And since I bought at 16, yes I DO think its a good return on investment. So I guess I'm the macidiot that got a 375% return on Apple.

 

[hob]

One small point - I don't think Apple will be feasible as home-theatre solution until they support 5.1 (or more) Surround Sound inside their boxes. I'm quite sure you can buy devices that add this capability, but who wants to? I'm sure the average consumer would far rather have one box that can manage it all!

 

[hob]

FireWire Killed the Ethernet Star?

I hope so. The only thing I actually use ethernet for in my entire world is connecting Cable modems to my AirPort hubs!

 

[mhouse]

And the cost argument too...

And if someone could explain the cost argument to me as well...

There are also quite a few posts arguing that this theoretical Apple plasma device is too expensive. Now, without getting all buy.com/ebay/nerdish about it let's do a quick survey...

cheapest 42' plasma TV at circuit city.com- 1614.99
cheapest 42' plasma TV at Best Buy.com - 1424.99

cheapest 50' plasma TV at circuit city.com - 2999.99
cheapest 50' plasma TV at Best Buy.com - 2469.99

You still with me? Okay so let's add on another 1000 bucks for a Windows Media Center PC (although I don't think they are quite that cheap yet)...

Cheapest 42' plasma TV media center- 2424.99
Cheapest 50' plasma TV media center- 3469.99

And the prices of Apple's theoretical mystery device?

42' - 2599.99
50' - 3299.99

Can you tell me how that is 'overpriced'? It seem perfectly reasonable to me. They wouldn't be charging much more (and in the case of the 50' actually a bit less) than it would cost to put the system together yourself...and it (the Apple unit) would undoubtedly be simpler, more elegant, easier to use, and probably have some iPod connectivity.

I'm not saying this rumor is true or even likely (I personally don't think it is), but if it does pan out, Apple would have *no problem* selling these whatsoever.

 

[oskar]

I read this story when it came out before it was on macrumors. I began to take it seriously until you start to realize how expensive this move could be for Apple.
The thing most people fail to see is that Apple could very well develop anything like this very easily. In fact they could make these plasmas a Quad G5 if they wanted, but they think: who the hell is gonna pay so much money for this? Yes it's relatively cheap, but it's a lot of money. How many people here have a 30" Apple Cinema Display? Now how many people have a Mac mini? I bet the 2nd question would raise thousands more hands.
Personally I think we'll see a Mac mini or completely new Mac with HD playback and recording. Maybe not to replace the current ones, but a higher end model that would cost around $1000 to enter the HD player competition.

 

[kingcrowing]

That would be so cool to have a 42" Plasma on my wall and have the whole computer built in, in the vien of the iMac G5, and you could fit at least 2 dual core G5s in there if you really wanted and then just have a nice BT mouse+KB... that would be sweet, esp, if it looked like the ACDs

 

[macidiot]

And the prices of Apple's theoretical mystery device?

42' - 2599.99
50' - 3299.99

Can you tell me how that is 'overpriced'? It seem perfectly reasonable to me. They wouldn't be charging much more (and in the case of the 50' actually a bit less) than it would cost to put the system together yourself...and it (the Apple unit) would undoubtedly be simpler, more elegant, easier to use, and probably have some iPod connectivity.

I'm not saying this rumor is true or even likely (I personally don't think it is), but if it does pan out, Apple would have *no problem* selling these whatsoever.

The numbers do work. The problem is that those cheap plasmas aren't very good. In fact, they are pretty awful. Your basically paying just to say you have a plasma that hangs on a wall.

Like I said in a prior post, Apple can hit those price points with a low to midlevel display and a mini-type computer. But it wouldnt' be very good as either a tv or a computer.

I love the idea of computing from the living room. But frankly, until they figure out how to make it comfortable to use a keyboard and mouse on a sofa, I'll pass. I've tried it, and it sucks.

 

[strange days]

How can something be immediately available if it doesn't ship until "the second half of 2007?"

sense of humor

 

[inkhead]

The Rumors are true

This rumor is absolutely 100% true. I'll be money on it with anyone. Any takers?

Last time powerpage had the exclusive about the switch to intel processors, from "a guy in a local cafeteria" Everyone thought they were full of it at first ;-) This was months in advance of the keynote.

 

[EricNau]

If this is true, Apple will not use Plasma - they know better.

 

[ccrandall77]

I hope this ain't true!

I'd much rather have a separate set-top box with cable card, fat HDD, etc. than an all-in-one TV/HTPC... esp since I just bought a 32" Aquos and 42" Samsung plasma for my new condo.

And by the way, for those arguing about the LCD vs. Plasma... I prefer my 32" Aquos to the 42" Samsung by far.... I almost wish I hadn't bought the plasma and just got one of the 45" Aquos sets that do 1080p.

To me, the picture on the Aquos is much cleaner than on the Samsung and I don't really have any issues with blacks, contrast, etc. And my Mac Mini looks beautiful on it.

Now I just want a Mac Mini HTPC that I can store all my DVD content on and get rid of every other A/V component so it's just the TV and my Mac. Just with the stupid DVR box from TimeWarner, where the damn HDMI port is disabled, and my Mac Mini, I have 10 cables cluttering the back of my entertainment center. If I could get a Mac Mini with DVR and cable card slot (just need Time Warner to come out with HD cable cards) using HDMI, I'd only have about 4 cables (2 power cords, 1 coax-to-cable card, 1 HDMI) and that would just look a whole lot better than the cable octopus I have now.

Oh, and there'd better be new Powerbooks on Tuesday!!!!

 

[bellis1]

I'd buy

Wasn't there a rumor or fact that Apple was buying elgato? I think I also had seen a patent that was once filed by Apple and elgato. Seems like it would fit in pretty well along with the plasma, remote control patent, etc. An all in one is what a lot of people need, not another component they can't even figure out how to hook up. The technology is basically there if they combined an intel mini, adapted elgato software, and a modified frontrow.

 

[greenstork]

That would be indeed perfect, but will not be realistic for now. No extra box, unless Apple is going to provide IPTV, there will be a box needed. Unfortunate most people still uses 'regular' tv, whether this is Cable, Dish or Directv, it doesn't matter. a box will be needed.

You're forgetting CableCards. A few flat panels with built in DVRs are coming with them standard now.

 

[greenstork]

The numbers do work. The problem is that those cheap plasmas aren't very good. In fact, they are pretty awful. Your basically paying just to say you have a plasma that hangs on a wall.

Like I said in a prior post, Apple can hit those price points with a low to midlevel display and a mini-type computer. But it wouldnt' be very good as either a tv or a computer.

I love the idea of computing from the living room. But frankly, until they figure out how to make it comfortable to use a keyboard and mouse on a sofa, I'll pass. I've tried it, and it sucks.

Any media center worth it's salt won't require you to use a mouse and keyboard. Think TiVo and its success, based in part on a very simple remote.

 

[clayj]

Hehe, good one.

I don't know if I'd buy one... how's the life span of plasmas these days?

Long... it all depends on how you use them. My Runco's 5 years old and still works perfectly, because I only use it for a few hours a day at the MOST. There have been times where it's gone a week or more without being turned on. It's rated for 50,000 hours, and I reckon I've had it turned on for maybe 5,000 hours so far.

My issue with this is that plasma TVs specifically tell you NOT to leave static images on the screen, as doing so can cause burn-in. Using a plasma TV for a computer monitor is therefore probably NOT a good idea because of static UI elements. AND the resolution on even a very good plasma screen is not going to exceed 1366 x 768 or so... hardly good resolution for a computer monitor nowadays.

Also, the plasma TV will probably be working long after the computer part has become obsolete. Better to keep the computer parts separate from the display for maximum upgradeability.

Finally, in my case, I don't have a place for such a device as this, anyway. Already got a plasma in the living room and there's no space for even a 42" screen in my bedroom.

 

[greenstork]

I'd much rather have a separate set-top box with cable card, fat HDD, etc. than an all-in-one TV/HTPC... esp since I just bought a 32" Aquos and 42" Samsung plasma for my new condo.

And by the way, for those arguing about the LCD vs. Plasma... I prefer my 32" Aquos to the 42" Samsung by far.... I almost wish I hadn't bought the plasma and just got one of the 45" Aquos sets that do 1080p.

To me, the picture on the Aquos is much cleaner than on the Samsung and I don't really have any issues with blacks, contrast, etc. And my Mac Mini looks beautiful on it.

Now I just want a Mac Mini HTPC that I can store all my DVD content on and get rid of every other A/V component so it's just the TV and my Mac. Just with the stupid DVR box from TimeWarner, where the damn HDMI port is disabled, and my Mac Mini, I have 10 cables cluttering the back of my entertainment center. If I could get a Mac Mini with DVR and cable card slot (just need Time Warner to come out with HD cable cards) using HDMI, I'd only have about 4 cables (2 power cords, 1 coax-to-cable card, 1 HDMI) and that would just look a whole lot better than the cable octopus I have now.

Oh, and there'd better be new Powerbooks on Tuesday!!!!

TiVo just announced an HD, dual CableCard, Series 3 DVR with 500GB+ of storage, although I, like you, were prefer the same functionality in a Mac device:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/05/tivo-announces-series-3-hd-tivo-due-this-year/

 

[greenstork]

Wasn't there a rumor or fact that Apple was buying elgato? I think I also had seen a patent that was once filed by Apple and elgato. Seems like it would fit in pretty well along with the plasma, remote control patent, etc. An all in one is what a lot of people need, not another component they can't even figure out how to hook up. The technology is basically there if they combined an intel mini, adapted elgato software, and a modified frontrow.

Except Apple could do much much better than El Gato with one hand tied behind their back.

 

[sluthy]

If it can't do 1080p properly (not scaled, proper 1920x1080), then don't bother. Can't see that happening for the price, proper 1080p devices are only new and expensive (saw one on Cnet from Samsung I believe? $4k-ish?). Shelling out for an item like this, only to have new displays kicking it out of the water in less than a year, would be pretty foolish.

All-in-one sounds cool, but not yet - the HD market's too unstable right now to make a non-upgradeable iMac-style unit (with HDTV and UHDTV standards, HDMI making an entrance only to be booted out by UDI even quicker, not to mention that friggin' HD-DVD-vs-BluRay crap). Let the HD crowd cool it's feet first, then blow them away with an all-in-one.

Whatever - I've learnt not to believe in anything until there's a glossy studio shot of it and a witty/trite pun on Apple's front page

 

[ccrandall77]

TiVo just announced an HD, dual CableCard, Series 3 DVR with 500GB+ of storage, although I, like you, were prefer the same functionality in a Mac device:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/05/tivo-announces-series-3-hd-tivo-due-this-year/

Ya, I just heard about the new Series 3. I like my Series 2, but it really lacks in functionality compared to my TimeWarner DVR box. But, if TimeWarner will get on the stick and come out with HD cable cards, then I might be interested in something like this. But I agree, I'd rather have that functionality in something like the Mac Mini. I want to be able to write dashboard widgets and do all the other junk I do on my Macs with a HTPC... and a MacMini looks a whole lot nicer than a big Tivo box. I really want to just have a MacMini-like HTPC that can sit on a shelf on my wall so I can totally ditch the entertainment center.