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External GPU (eGPU) Resources
- Thread starter F-Train
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I have a 512GB mini, but I am probably going to reduce my Windows partition to about 50GB and see how it goes. Boot Camp makes it easy to wipe the Windows partition with a single click, and I’m not under pressure to make a final decision. I don’t mind reinstalling Windows a few times to get it right, which means the smallest Windows partition that I can get away with for my needs. Installing Windows doesn’t take very long.
With the Windows operating system needing a bit less than 20GB, and me adding maybe 2GB in apps and needing about 2GB in storage, I don’t know what the purpose of the rest is except Windows slopover. I’d like to think that 25GB is enough for that. Who knows, maybe I’ll discover that running a game from an external drive requires a fair bit of Windows space.
Anyway, if I underestimate I’ll just add some more.
For anyone wondering, Steam for Windows appears to be about 0.5GB
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I still haven't pulled the trigger on a Mini because of uncertainty over the new Mac Pro. If there is a Mac Pro ship date surprise (meaning mid-year-ish shipments), I'd buy a low-end Mini for secondary uses instead of an i7 Mini for primary use.
That said, I occasionally need to run Win 10 natively (most of the time I can use VMWare Fusion). I had never considered running Win 10 natively from the same SSD as Mojave (i.e. never from the Mini's internal SSD), so why do you think running Win 10 off an external drive is a problem? You can set the T2 chip to allow external booting and Win 10 booting is allowed (or you can just turn off the secure boot protection altogether). Or is there something else preventing this that I'm not aware of since I don't have a new Mini to try it on?
That said, I occasionally need to run Win 10 natively (most of the time I can use VMWare Fusion). I had never considered running Win 10 natively from the same SSD as Mojave (i.e. never from the Mini's internal SSD), so why do you think running Win 10 off an external drive is a problem? You can set the T2 chip to allow external booting and Win 10 booting is allowed (or you can just turn off the secure boot protection altogether). Or is there something else preventing this that I'm not aware of since I don't have a new Mini to try it on?
If this is directed at me, I didn’t say that running Windows from an external drive is a problem. I just asked the question; specifically “Is it possible to run Windows on a T5 mini from an external drive?”
If it’s easy to set up, and it’s easy to run, at the same time, things like games that are also on an external drive, cool. It would be great to hear from someone who is doing it.
Personally, I’d also be interested in learning why people continue to use Boot Camp if it’s just as easy to run Windows from an external flash drive.
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I just didn't understand why you asked. I thought you might have heard of some possible issues. As far as I know the T2 chip settings take care of it.
I asked a simple question and mentioned T5 because it is apparently an issue with Linux.
Given what I said in post #450 and #453 about installing Boot Camp, it should be blindingly obvious that I have never run Windows on a Mac and claim zero expertise on the subject. If it isn’t clear, that’s why I’m experimenting with how much space I have to give Windows.
I wrote those posts because they may interest people who have an eGPU and are considering running Windows to play Windows-only games, such as the three free ones that some of us are entitled to as a result of buying an AMD eGPU.
Perhaps you can tell us all how to do this from an external drive, preferably without paying at least US$80 to VMWare, on top of $140 to Microsoft, to create a virtual machine.
I’m happy to try out Windows games, but a $220 entry fee starts to be a bit rich.
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Just an observation:
I've noticed a few times now that my Asus eGPU will ramp up the fans and seem like it's under a heavy load.
I only have a few processes running, so I'm not sure why this would happen.
In the attached file it shows that the Vega 56 is doing a lot of work. Though all I have running is Safari.
Is it something I should be concerned about ?
I've noticed a few times now that my Asus eGPU will ramp up the fans and seem like it's under a heavy load.
I only have a few processes running, so I'm not sure why this would happen.
In the attached file it shows that the Vega 56 is doing a lot of work. Though all I have running is Safari.
Is it something I should be concerned about ?
Certain websites I visit in Opera will cause the same thing to happen with my eGPU. Once I navigate to a different website or close the browser my eGPU will return to a normal "idling" state.
I enjoy your informative posts, but sometimes you seem to have quite an attitude on here with people you converse with. I just thought you might have known about a problem I hadn't heard of yet. As I said to start with, I don't have a new Mini yet, so I can't "tell us all" about how to do anything with it. Sorry to bother you.
I’ve run into an odd problem that I’m hoping to get some insight on from the more technically capable people on this forum.
Here’s my Setup:
2018 i7 Mac mini & Mojavi 10.14.3
Asus XG Station Pro with Asus Vega 56
Asus ProArt monitor, 32”, 3840x2160 (PA32UC)
Insignia 4’ HDMI 4K cable (18Gbps) from Vega 56 HDMI port to monitor HDMI port
The above setup is working fine with a DisplayPort cable. When I use the HDMI cable, the monitor says “No Signal” regardless of which of the monitor’s four HDMI ports I use. I have tried two other HDMI cables with the same result. The monitor’s ports are HDMI 2.0b.
There is no problem if I don’t use the external GPU and run the HDMI cable from the mini directly to the monitor. There is also no problem if I use the eGPU and run the HDMI cable from the Vega card to an Acer 2560 x 1440 monitor that I have.
I could use some help to understand what the problem is and get this to work. Is it likely that a DisplayPort to HDMI adapter or cable would help? If so, does it need to be what I understand is called an “active” adapter/cable? If the problem is the monitor, which I am very happy with apart from this problem, I have until February 1 to return it.
For the curious, here is why just using a DisplayPort cable doesn’t solve the problem...
I want to use a 4K video recorder (Video Devices PIX E5H) to record the monitor screen. The video recorder has an HDMI input and an HDMI output. I need to run an HDMI cable from the Vega to the video recorder input and an HDMI cable from the video recorder output to the monitor. In other words, I need to put the video recorder between the GPU and the monitor. This has a significant advantage (no load on the mini’s CPU) over recording the screen with a software screen recorder (for example OBS), and I’m aware of someone who is doing this successfully.
If I can’t get this to work, I may try AMD ReLive via Boot Camp/Windows. Does anyone have experience using ReLive for 3840 x 2160 screen recording? If so, how well does it work?
Thanks for your assistance.
Here’s my Setup:
2018 i7 Mac mini & Mojavi 10.14.3
Asus XG Station Pro with Asus Vega 56
Asus ProArt monitor, 32”, 3840x2160 (PA32UC)
Insignia 4’ HDMI 4K cable (18Gbps) from Vega 56 HDMI port to monitor HDMI port
The above setup is working fine with a DisplayPort cable. When I use the HDMI cable, the monitor says “No Signal” regardless of which of the monitor’s four HDMI ports I use. I have tried two other HDMI cables with the same result. The monitor’s ports are HDMI 2.0b.
There is no problem if I don’t use the external GPU and run the HDMI cable from the mini directly to the monitor. There is also no problem if I use the eGPU and run the HDMI cable from the Vega card to an Acer 2560 x 1440 monitor that I have.
I could use some help to understand what the problem is and get this to work. Is it likely that a DisplayPort to HDMI adapter or cable would help? If so, does it need to be what I understand is called an “active” adapter/cable? If the problem is the monitor, which I am very happy with apart from this problem, I have until February 1 to return it.
For the curious, here is why just using a DisplayPort cable doesn’t solve the problem...
I want to use a 4K video recorder (Video Devices PIX E5H) to record the monitor screen. The video recorder has an HDMI input and an HDMI output. I need to run an HDMI cable from the Vega to the video recorder input and an HDMI cable from the video recorder output to the monitor. In other words, I need to put the video recorder between the GPU and the monitor. This has a significant advantage (no load on the mini’s CPU) over recording the screen with a software screen recorder (for example OBS), and I’m aware of someone who is doing this successfully.
If I can’t get this to work, I may try AMD ReLive via Boot Camp/Windows. Does anyone have experience using ReLive for 3840 x 2160 screen recording? If so, how well does it work?
Thanks for your assistance.
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Howdy folks,
I have one unsolved question regarding eGPU that bothers me, maybe someone can give me a primer on this one.
My Vega in my MacPro 5.1 is connected to an LG Display with an HDMI cable. The LG Display has, of course, a Display Port on the back as well.
In order to connect any eGPU to the Display, can I use the Display Port to connect to the eGPU (and not the Thunderbolt3).
Will this work, or does any eGPU only work with TB3 and nothing else?
What I don't understand, (this is political) - Why is there no Apple computer out there that has really used Dual internal GPUs (AMD Crossfire dual cards setup) and why is the apple software integration so extremely crappy, bogus, blasphemous-lame-duckish.. ?
The reviews on YouTube regarding eGPUs on Apple Mac computers are "bad - cave-crappy at best. On top of that, most software programs do not / or can not work with dual gpu's. So what's the consensus on that one, when can we count on a propper eGPU Software integration in MacOS ??
I think this is the most important "Homework" Apple has on its ToDo List, wouldn't you agree?
I have one unsolved question regarding eGPU that bothers me, maybe someone can give me a primer on this one.
My Vega in my MacPro 5.1 is connected to an LG Display with an HDMI cable. The LG Display has, of course, a Display Port on the back as well.
In order to connect any eGPU to the Display, can I use the Display Port to connect to the eGPU (and not the Thunderbolt3).
Will this work, or does any eGPU only work with TB3 and nothing else?
What I don't understand, (this is political) - Why is there no Apple computer out there that has really used Dual internal GPUs (AMD Crossfire dual cards setup) and why is the apple software integration so extremely crappy, bogus, blasphemous-lame-duckish.. ?
The reviews on YouTube regarding eGPUs on Apple Mac computers are "bad - cave-crappy at best. On top of that, most software programs do not / or can not work with dual gpu's. So what's the consensus on that one, when can we count on a propper eGPU Software integration in MacOS ??
I think this is the most important "Homework" Apple has on its ToDo List, wouldn't you agree?
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I’m not sure that I understand the issue being raised here, and hopefully I’m not missing the point. The connections should be:
1. Mac mini Thunderbolt 3 port to GPU enclosure Thunderbolt 3 port.
2. Video card DisplayPort or HDMI port to monitor DisplayPort or HDMI port.
I’m assuming that you aren’t using an LG Ultrafine 4K or 5K monitor.
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Further to recent posts above on setting up an eGPU with Boot Camp/Windows, and the size of the Windows partition, here is a good thread from the eGPU.io forum: https://egpu.io/forums/pc-setup/egpu-and-external-ssd-windows-10-boot-camp/#post-53215
See posts 6, 7 and 9 in particular. In post 7, a forum administrator says that his Windows partition is 50GB, which as noted in post #453 above is what I am now trying out myself. This is 14GB less than what Apple’s support document says is the minimum, and 42GB less than what it recommends. So far, so good.
In post 6, a forum moderator expresses a reservation about running Windows from an external drive. However, the person who wrote post 9 says that he is successfully using an iMac Pro with Windows on an external drive and with an external Nvidia video card. He doesn’t say how he set this up. Discussions that I’ve seen talk about using VM Ware (US$80 for the “home” version) to create a virtual machine, but for all I know there are other ways to do it.
* After installing Windows, Boot Camp and Steam, I have 29.4GB free of what Windows says is 47.4GB. The partition is 50GB.
See posts 6, 7 and 9 in particular. In post 7, a forum administrator says that his Windows partition is 50GB, which as noted in post #453 above is what I am now trying out myself. This is 14GB less than what Apple’s support document says is the minimum, and 42GB less than what it recommends. So far, so good.
In post 6, a forum moderator expresses a reservation about running Windows from an external drive. However, the person who wrote post 9 says that he is successfully using an iMac Pro with Windows on an external drive and with an external Nvidia video card. He doesn’t say how he set this up. Discussions that I’ve seen talk about using VM Ware (US$80 for the “home” version) to create a virtual machine, but for all I know there are other ways to do it.
* After installing Windows, Boot Camp and Steam, I have 29.4GB free of what Windows says is 47.4GB. The partition is 50GB.
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I agree, if that screen shot is real. If I have some time to kill, I might try a support chat with NVIDIA to see what they say.
EDIT: Had a few minutes to kill.......
I'm glad to see their responses are consistent. Just needs to wait.
This 18 January Apple Insider article, which lays out the Apple/Nvidia history, is not encouraging.
Apple's management doesn't want Nvidia support in macOS, and that's a bad sign for the Mac Pro:
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...in-macos-and-thats-a-bad-sign-for-the-mac-pro
Hmmm. Before we go down the HDMI/HDCP rabbit hole, you really should give hardware accelerated screen capture through OBS or ReLive a try first. Modern video cards and their drivers have support for this use case and it works pretty well.
What type of media are you displaying on screen to be captured? Video or mostly static content?
As for DP to HDMI and vice versa, some ground rules:
* HDMI and DP use different (incompatible) digital signaling methods
* The HDMI specification has no provision for switching to DP signaling if connected to a DP input using dongles, thus the need for active (separately powered) adapters in this case
* The DP specification DOES have a provision for HDMI compatible signaling if connected to an HDMI input using a passive dongle/adapter AND the output on the board has this functionality enabled
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Thanks very much for your comments and questions.
I am interested in recording X-Plane flight simulation at 2160p, 30fps* to be edited in Final Cut Pro X.
With OBS, 1440p is possible but 2160p is problematic. Now that I have Boot Camp Windows set up, I’ll test AMD ReLive. It is an option if it makes 2160p possible at reasonable quality or, compared with OBS, significantly improves frame rate at 1440p.
That said, I’m interested in finding out whether I can accomplish this with an external 4K video recorder. One of the things that an external recorder does, when used with a camera, is take the burden off the camera’s processor. If I can get my external recorder to work with the mini, there is a good chance that it will take much of the video processing burden off the computer.
More fundamentally, I’m puzzled that my monitor will work with an external GPU via its DisplayPort 1.2 port but not its HDMI 2.0b ports. I’d like to know why and get this rectified.
As noted in my first post, the monitor’s HDMI ports work when connected directly to the mini. This suggests that the ports themselves are not defective. Also, another monitor that I have (2160x1440) works when connected via HDMI to the eGPU. This suggests that the GPU enclosure and the GPU’s HDMI port are not defective. From the foregoing, it would appear that the cable is also not the problem. Given that the monitor’s HDMI ports work when connected directly to the mini, the difference in resolution between the two monitors would appear to be irrelevant. What’s left as a possible culprit?
Returning to the issue of recording, I want to put the video recorder, with its “HDMI in” and “HDMI out”, between the eGPU and the monitor. If I can’t get HDMI cables to work, is there a way to do this using DisplayPort/HDMI adapters or cables and, if so, what cabling should I be trying?
Thanks
* Given the nature and speed of motion in X-Plane, I’m not convinced that 60fps is necessary, despite having become something of a norm in recording games.
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Hi,
Thanks for the question. I hadn’t looked at the specifications for the video card. Here’s what Asus says, which would seem to further rule out resolution as an issue:
Resolution: Digital Max Resolution 7680x4320
DVI Output : Yes x 1 (Native) (DVI-D)
HDMI Output : Yes x 2 (Native) (HDMI 2.0b)
Display Port : Yes x 2 (Native) (DisplayPort 1.4)
HDCP Support : Yes (2.2)
Note that both the card and the monitor are Asus and that both are HDMI 2.0b.DVI Output : Yes x 1 (Native) (DVI-D)
HDMI Output : Yes x 2 (Native) (HDMI 2.0b)
Display Port : Yes x 2 (Native) (DisplayPort 1.4)
HDCP Support : Yes (2.2)
The only other statement about HDMI is:
- VR-friendly HDMI ports let you enjoy VR experiences anytime without having to swap cables.
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Well, even if you don't return it, I would contact Asus support to report the incompatibility. At least that way if they can't offer a fix they should, if needed, offer you some kind of a return down the line.
I wonder if for some reason, the ASUS display is not set on the right kind of HDMI protocol. The output direct from mini may be different.
Did you test if the HDMI connection works okay in boot camp? (Assuming the eGPU works?)
I wonder if for some reason, the ASUS display is not set on the right kind of HDMI protocol. The output direct from mini may be different.
Did you test if the HDMI connection works okay in boot camp? (Assuming the eGPU works?)
To expand on my previous comment - your Vega 56 has hardware accelerated 4K H.264/H.265 encoding that should almost entirely offload CPU usage for this task. But you *really* need to utilize the hardware encoding of the card by finding the right combination of drivers/software to do this.
Since you're running an eGPU, software screen capturing 4K video via CPU is going to be somewhat expensive because you're sending unencoded 4K video frames back down the 22Gb/s bus to the CPU to be encoded. The CPU's Quick Sync acceleration engine can easily encode 4K in real time though if it's properly utilized. "Properly utilized" means two things:
1) Quick Sync is actually being intentionally used by the software (duh)
2) Compression settings are compatible with Quick Sync acceleration i.e. not requiring a software fallback because you're being too aggressive with bitrate reductions
The framework for live gaming capture is far more robust under Windows, so that's where you should be doing this. I suspect that with a little bit of tweaking ReLive will basically solve all of your problems and you won't have to give live game capture a second thought again - because this use case was mostly solved several years ago. I and most gamers I personally know who stream are able to do this well with very little technical knowledge.
As for using a dedicated 4K video encoding device to capture PC output over HDMI - that's always going to be finicky. Unlike a camera, computers have end-to-end HDCP enforcement. Windows has it, the major browsers have it and all three video card manufacturers have it built-in to their hardware and activated by their drivers. You are very likely to run into situations where things silently fail because content is being blocked due to HDCP with a recording device in between your monitor and video card output - this is literally the situation HDCP was designed to protect against in the first place.
I know you've got anecdotal accounts of making that work, and there definitely ARE ways to make it work, but it often times involves importing (technically) illegal devices from China to break HDCP first. This was actually a more common use case with console streamers before the Xbox and PS were updated to natively have that functionality.
My strong suggestion is to focus your effort on getting the video card's built-in screen capture capabilities to work.
[doublepost=1548787452][/doublepost]As for trying to get HDMI to work from eGPU to your monitor, a few things to try:
* Try cold booting into Windows with the HDMI cable already connected between the monitor/GPU AND with the monitor not in standby AND with the DP cable disconnected
* When booted into Windows connected via DP (or another monitor), connect the HDMI cable to the monitor+GPU. Check in the AMD graphics driver utility to see if the monitor is even detected
* If the monitor is detected, do a sanity check for a mismatch between HDMI black levels, HDR, color space (RGB vs YUV), bit depth, resolution, refresh rate and so on between the monitor and the driver settings
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Boot Camp is the same story as macOS. DisplayPort works, but not HDMI.
My feeling is that this is a problem for Asus to help fix. If you hadn't got DP inputs, essentially the combo of eGPU and monitor (both made by Asus) are not compatible (in two OSs). That cannot be expected, surely?
Thanks. I’ve tried the first suggestion. No cigar. Now working on two and three.
Hi @rmdeluca and @Spectrum ,
This is one of those "Do I laugh or cry?" moments.
Further to @rmdeluca 's suggestion, I used the DisplayPort cable to connect the eGPU to the monitor and then added the HDMI cable.
Look at the photo. As far as AMD's driver software is concerned, there were two monitors, one DisplayPort and one HDMI. It even recognised a difference in the profiles. Note the box "Virtual Super Resolution". I had turned it on for the DisplayPort connection, but it is off by default (HDMI).
Next step into see whether an HDMI signal holds if I remove the DisplayPort cable.
I've spent much of the day on this. My brain is a bit frazzled at this point and I'm going to take a break until the morning. That will also give me a chance to give post #471 on screen video recording the attention it deserves.
I did try to install AMD ReLive, but unsuccessfully. It is part of the driver package, but did not appear as an option, despite several attempts and regardless of whether I did an "Express" or "Custom" driver install. Apparently AMD presents the option selectively, and it is unclear to me at the moment whether the absence of the option has to do with the fact that I am running Boot Camp. Also, it looks like ReLive can't be installed independently of the driver package.
Thanks both of you very much for your help.
Also, my apologies to people following this thread who aren't interested in this. In retrospect, perhaps I should have raised the problem elsewhere. With luck, at least a few people see it as relevant, and maybe as an interesting exercise in eGPU/monitor/Boot Camp troubleshooting.
This is one of those "Do I laugh or cry?" moments.
Further to @rmdeluca 's suggestion, I used the DisplayPort cable to connect the eGPU to the monitor and then added the HDMI cable.
Look at the photo. As far as AMD's driver software is concerned, there were two monitors, one DisplayPort and one HDMI. It even recognised a difference in the profiles. Note the box "Virtual Super Resolution". I had turned it on for the DisplayPort connection, but it is off by default (HDMI).
Next step into see whether an HDMI signal holds if I remove the DisplayPort cable.
I've spent much of the day on this. My brain is a bit frazzled at this point and I'm going to take a break until the morning. That will also give me a chance to give post #471 on screen video recording the attention it deserves.
I did try to install AMD ReLive, but unsuccessfully. It is part of the driver package, but did not appear as an option, despite several attempts and regardless of whether I did an "Express" or "Custom" driver install. Apparently AMD presents the option selectively, and it is unclear to me at the moment whether the absence of the option has to do with the fact that I am running Boot Camp. Also, it looks like ReLive can't be installed independently of the driver package.
Thanks both of you very much for your help.
Also, my apologies to people following this thread who aren't interested in this. In retrospect, perhaps I should have raised the problem elsewhere. With luck, at least a few people see it as relevant, and maybe as an interesting exercise in eGPU/monitor/Boot Camp troubleshooting.
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