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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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MICHAELSD
macrumors 603
I think so. My head definitely feels strained. But I’m also getting headaches from my 14” MacBook Pro so it’s more difficult to isolate.
This is still by far the best Max-sized iPhone.
This topic makes me want to stop purchasing Apple products. I can only imagine what other shortcuts they have taken at the expense of their customer's health. The more I think about the past 5 years and how Apple only continues to shift more of their products to use displays with PWM (iPhone, Mac, iPad, Watch, etc.), the more my disappointment turns into anger.
jimmy_uk
macrumors 68030
100% this.
And it's stopping me from taking the risk of buying any Apple product through the concern it will affect my wellbeing. How sad it is that, we can't have a new phone or computer because it might strain our vision and/or give us headaches! And yet I still use an iPhone and pine for the latest Apple products - is this Stockholm syndrome?
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happy orchard
macrumors 65816
Interesting. Are you able to not use your MBP for a day or two to reduce confounding variables?
I returned a brand new iPad Pro last year because within the first five minutes, I was in pain and literally turning away from the screen. So I know it's not only the phones that can give us problems now.
I'm feeling like the Pro is easier on me than the Pro Max, but that could be placebo. That screen on the PM was just delgihtful to use outside though. Man, so clear, so big, loved that. Just think I've gotten to love the 6.1 because of my 11. Things change. But right now, no headaches.That's a big change. Mostly though what I really notice is that I would still trade out the OLED screen for an LCD. I just like LCD better.
DXOmark has bring out his display test for the iPhome 14 Pro Max and they measured also 480 Hz PWM frequency:
www.dxomark.com
It will be interesting if the they measure also higher PWM frequency on iPhone 14 Pro.
Apple iPhone 14 Pro Max Display test
Curious about the display of the latest Apple iPhone 14 Pro Max? Check DXOMARK's detailed test results to know all about the new bright display!
www.dxomark.com
It will be interesting if the they measure also higher PWM frequency on iPhone 14 Pro.
Haven't posted here in a bit but I've had an iPhone 12 since june and have been using it with no issues. It was really the X/XS lineup where I was really affected by PWM. Something about those screens just really strained my eyes. The 12 has been fine and my sister has a 13 Pro that I used for a bit with no issues as well.
I really hope things get better for everyone else here.
I really hope things get better for everyone else here.
dstow
macrumors regular
As expected with the Max - low PWM freq compared to their 6.1 inch counter parts - Hoping the 14 Plus surprises us as the 14 did, but not holding my breath - based on previous PWM reports - I'm going to hazard a guess the 14 Plus could be in the 600Hz range given the high base PWM freq of the 14 and consistent gap between vanilla/max sizes of the 13 (610Hz/238Hz) relative - all hot air until it's out, but here's hoping it's better than the abysmal 238Hz of the 13Pro Max/12Pro MaxDXOmark has bring out his display test for the iPhome 14 Pro Max and they measured also 480 Hz PWM frequency:
Apple iPhone 14 Pro Max Display test
Curious about the display of the latest Apple iPhone 14 Pro Max? Check DXOMARK's detailed test results to know all about the new bright display!
It will be interesting if the they measure also higher PWM frequency on iPhone 14 Pro.
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Used the 14 all evening and this morning with only a little eye strain. So much better than the 14 Pro for me. Problem is now though the 14 isn't nearly as much of an upgrade as the 14 pro was (particularly wanted the optical zoom) over my 11, so am I willing to put up with a little eye strain for the relatively smaller upgrade from my 11 when my 11 is very comfortable to use...?
jimmy_uk
macrumors 68030
Give yourself a bit more time.
Personally, like the 13 no pro last year, I was unwilling to live with even mild discomfort as I stare at displays all day.
jimmy_uk
macrumors 68030
Was it the 12.9" M1 with mini LED? (I found this to be blasting my eyes with light glare on the edges of my vision, much like the iphone 14, and my focus on reading was screwy).
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PwmMen
macrumors 6502
I will continue to use my iPhone 12 Pro. The iPhone 14 Pro and iPhone 14 are fine, the iPhone 14 is more than the iPhone 14 Pro. But I don't see any advantage for me compared to the iPhone 12 Pro in terms of my usage behavior. At home I have a flicker-free Eizo monitor on a Mac Mini M1. There are no monitors that are healthier for the eyes than those from Eizo. PWM is terrible, and I avoid PWM hardware whenever I can. It's strange that I don't always react to TV sets. I have a Samsung 75 QN95B running constantly at 120Hz PWM in my settings. I have no problems there. While I had problems with an OLED TV that is flicker-free. All really weird and weird.
Chrispy
macrumors 68020
Now that this topic is back in my mind, I've been thinking about all the other things I use that are PWM dimmed. My TV uses it and I have no issues, and I have no clue if my three large computer monitors are flicker free or not. Two Dell Ultrasharps and an LG ultrawide and I don't have issues looking at them for hours each day (taking regular breaks). Heck, I even have LED puck and strip lighting under and above my cabinets that I know for a fact use PWM for dimming because it gets picked up easily on video. No issues with those either. Something about OLED seems to bother me when combined with certain PWM frequencies and/or variable refresh rate (Promotion).
john g.
macrumors 6502
Well, I have a vanilla 14 arriving this afternoon, and I will use it over the weekend.
I’m not gonna mess around, when I had the 14 pro even though I had minimal symptoms, I was tempted to keep it because it was so much better than the 11 in so many ways.
I ultimately decided it wasn’t worth it healthwise.
So with the vanilla 14 it’s got to be even better for PWM otherwise it goes back.
I’m not gonna mess around, when I had the 14 pro even though I had minimal symptoms, I was tempted to keep it because it was so much better than the 11 in so many ways.
I ultimately decided it wasn’t worth it healthwise.
So with the vanilla 14 it’s got to be even better for PWM otherwise it goes back.
dstow
macrumors regular
As always, let us know how you get on, every hands on experience counts
Evilxardas
macrumors member
As I have already said, in my case there is no corelation between PWM and symptoms.
And after 3 setups that became inusable as a result of software updates, I am even more sure.
I have two PCs that connected with display port give me problems, with HDMI I can use them 10 hours in a row without any symptoms.
So I stopped looking at the PWM tests, something else is the problem.
AJTC
macrumors regular
I’ve got TNT picking up my 14 Pro return on Monday and I’ve got a regular 14 arriving on Tuesday. Interested to see if the regular 14 is any better.
MacDaddyPanda
macrumors 65816
I get eye strain, but it has nothing to do with the phone. Pretty sure its getting older and already being near sighted. I find it's more comfortable to hold the phone out further than I used to. Or I end up taking my glasses off to read closer.
I’m on day 4 of coffee withdrawal. That makes me more prone to headaches, but I’ve been using my 14 Pro Max like crazy. Sometimes I get a headache or eye ache from it. Sometimes I don’t.
But the important difference from my 13 Pro ownership is that any headaches go away without me having to take anything for them when I take a break. So I’m guessing it’s just garden variety tech induced eye strain then. With the 13 Pro I had a headache that didn’t go away no matter what pain relievers I took. After almost 3 weeks of that, I put that phone out to pasture.
Like I said, I’m not always getting discomfort when I use the 14 Pro Max. Just sometimes.
My daughter is going to let me try her 14 Pro this weekend for a little web browsing to see if there’s any difference at all. I’m pretty set on keeping this Max, though. Heavy as it is, it’s the size I really preferred this time around.
One thing I found out picking up her phone the other day, Attention Aware needed to be turned off. I suspected it might be on because she said her new phone wasn’t giving her a headache, but it was making her eyes feel “weird.” I had already told her to check it after finding my own settings had it turned on. Of course she had just said yeah then promptly dismissed me. 🙄
So I picked the phone up and I could feel right away Attention Aware must be on. She said it couldn’t possibly be on because she did a straight transfer from her 12 Pro and had that feature turned off on that phone. I asked her permission to check her settings and sure enough it was on! Then I gave her a look that could melt wax for not thinking to check it herself instead of stubbornly assuming it was already off.
So apparently somehow that feature defaults back to on, even if most of the other settings transfer over. I realize now that had happened to me, too.
I’m not going back to iPhone 11 or SE3 full time. Because the white flicker I have been complaining about is gone now. I’m keeping my fingers crossed. I now think LCD use causes that for me. I don’t want that back because it bothers me when I’m driving. It extends my blind spot on the side. I’m lucky my automobiles have sensors that compensate for that, but still, who wants a white curtain flapping in their vision?
I’m glad I got this in 1 TB version. I think I can live with this phone. Goodness only knows what iPhone 15 will bring. If I can’t move on to periscope lenses or whatever it’s good to know I can stay on this one awhile.
At least I think so. I remember thinking that about my XS Max and then it kicked my head in. 🙄
But the important difference from my 13 Pro ownership is that any headaches go away without me having to take anything for them when I take a break. So I’m guessing it’s just garden variety tech induced eye strain then. With the 13 Pro I had a headache that didn’t go away no matter what pain relievers I took. After almost 3 weeks of that, I put that phone out to pasture.
Like I said, I’m not always getting discomfort when I use the 14 Pro Max. Just sometimes.
My daughter is going to let me try her 14 Pro this weekend for a little web browsing to see if there’s any difference at all. I’m pretty set on keeping this Max, though. Heavy as it is, it’s the size I really preferred this time around.
One thing I found out picking up her phone the other day, Attention Aware needed to be turned off. I suspected it might be on because she said her new phone wasn’t giving her a headache, but it was making her eyes feel “weird.” I had already told her to check it after finding my own settings had it turned on. Of course she had just said yeah then promptly dismissed me. 🙄
So I picked the phone up and I could feel right away Attention Aware must be on. She said it couldn’t possibly be on because she did a straight transfer from her 12 Pro and had that feature turned off on that phone. I asked her permission to check her settings and sure enough it was on! Then I gave her a look that could melt wax for not thinking to check it herself instead of stubbornly assuming it was already off.
So apparently somehow that feature defaults back to on, even if most of the other settings transfer over. I realize now that had happened to me, too.
I’m not going back to iPhone 11 or SE3 full time. Because the white flicker I have been complaining about is gone now. I’m keeping my fingers crossed. I now think LCD use causes that for me. I don’t want that back because it bothers me when I’m driving. It extends my blind spot on the side. I’m lucky my automobiles have sensors that compensate for that, but still, who wants a white curtain flapping in their vision?
I’m glad I got this in 1 TB version. I think I can live with this phone. Goodness only knows what iPhone 15 will bring. If I can’t move on to periscope lenses or whatever it’s good to know I can stay on this one awhile.
At least I think so. I remember thinking that about my XS Max and then it kicked my head in. 🙄
Is this not also an issue with OEMs like Samsung that have been using OLED panels for years?
jimmy_uk
macrumors 68030
Yes because Samsung are the main producers of the OLEDS being used in phones, tablets, laptops etc. The technology has been good for battery life, awful for eye health I think. And Samsung could care less when you see them still using 240 PWM frequencies in their own phones.
5 years of people reporting/discussing this on reddit, Macrumours, youtube, ledstrain.org etc. And while some Chinese manufacturers are claiming to be concerned for eye health and using PWM into the 1000+ range, it looks like they might have been lying when devices are reviewed 🤦♂️
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happy orchard
macrumors 65816
See that was me. That’s why I don’t even want to try the 14. Hope you find what makes you happiest.
happy orchard
macrumors 65816
Yes. It was rough. I didn’t even carry in the baggage of iPhones and PWM. I just remember it was like staring at the sun. Played with brightness, but still even when it was dimmer, I found myself squinting to help out my already constricted pupils. I wanted to keep it for the M1 (since I like it on my MBA), but I returned it and got a 2020 model. Much nicer.
happy orchard
macrumors 65816
Think I need to learn more about various lighting in my home, and kinda don’t want to. I have some photophobia from concussions, so I think I’ve long attributed it to that, but know some is the flickering.
Even my TV is SD. Remember trying other TVs, and I hated the screens—still don’t know how the world watches anything on those; it’s like the whole world is a soap opera. My point in bringing it up is to say that I don’t think my TV has a need for PWM? Now I’m curious am I going to have to give up Apple AND my favorite British shows when my TV dies?!
Even my TV is SD. Remember trying other TVs, and I hated the screens—still don’t know how the world watches anything on those; it’s like the whole world is a soap opera. My point in bringing it up is to say that I don’t think my TV has a need for PWM? Now I’m curious am I going to have to give up Apple AND my favorite British shows when my TV dies?!
