I've taken back a 14 pro and a 14 and i've now had an s22 Ultra for a week with far fewer issues than either of the iPhones. I said last year if the 14s weren't any good for me then I'd consider jumping ship and I think I probably will now. I could wait another year and another and it could still be the same. My 11 is starting to feel quite dated and I love my gadgets. I'll probably also try the Pixel 7 to see if I can minimise the eye strain even more. I've wanted to stay with Apple but I am currently unable to use a flagship Apple phone comfortably and am not willing to compromise that.
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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Would be interested to hear your opinion on the S22 Ultra regarding PWM reactions.
I'm also very interested to hear how you get along with the S22 Ultra. From what I have read, Samsung does a better job keeping PWM rates consistent as refresh rate adjusts on their LTPO implementation. I have no explanation for why Apple OLEDs in particular bother me so much, especially the Pro line.
I can use my Switch OLED for hours at a time and I'm totally fine. Yet it clearly has lots of flicker so I give up trying to understand it. All I know is I can't use modern iPhones and that stinks.
Notebookcheck have added the iPhone 14 to their PWM list; no review available yet
According to them, the PWM frequency is at 60Hz:
![Screen Shot 2022-10-05 at 15.51.31.png]( "Screen Shot 2022-10-05 at 15.51.31.png")
According to them, the PWM frequency is at 60Hz:
It's by no means symptom free but so much better and I can use it for long periods sometimes without discomfort. Biggest pain for me was getting Google Calendar to sync with my wife's iCloud calendar. They don't make it easy.
Whoa.
iPhone 13 mini - 510
iPhone 13 - 610
iPhone 13 Pro - 510
iPhone Pro Max - 238.1
iPhone 14 - 60
iPhone 14 Pro - 240
iPhone 14 Pro Max - 240.9
They really cut down on the refresh speeds this year. I wonder if that's part of how they are bumping up the battery life. I'll keep my 13 mini for another year or 10 at this rate, since it works well for me thank you very much.
Yeah, my guess is they mixed up refresh rate and PWM rate. PWM is usually roughly four times the refresh on fixed refresh OLED displays. Unless the phone maker decides to do something different. That would put it at 240, which seems far more likely.
Out of the 14s, the regular 14 was the one I had the least issues with
Same. I was able to mess around with one (on and off with the 14 Pro) and I found the 14 to be much easier on the eyes. I could still see the telltale signs of OLED that get to me with continued use. But it was much better than the Pro. My guess is they are using a garden variety 240hz PWM, 60hz refresh OLED on the standard 14 line. With how much they decided to lean into repairability with the 14, it would make sense they would use a standard panel with no funny business. Easy to source from various vendors. Easy for Apple to fix on the cheap under AppleCare. And because of that, I think I'm simply getting used to that type of OLED panel. They are used in a lot of other stuff.
So I guess the question I really have to ask myself is, can I tolerate OLED if I stick to the non LTPO style (Apple or Android) and limit my screen time, do I just admit defeat and go with the SE 2022, or do I try to find an Android device with DC dimming or an LCD. My head is spinning. I should really just get some coffee and take a nice morning walk, haha.
Honestly, I’ve learned not to trust their figures, or even Zollotech. Everything is so variable, considering the individual and potential screen lottery. For example, last year‘s 13 series, the 13 mini was bad enough for me to send back, but not terrible. The 13 pro the same way. But my mother-in-law’s regular 13 was a device from hell for me. Kind of like the iPhone X. Notebook check figures don’t substantiate that. I’ve given up on those two sources. It’s just about trying the device for yourself obviously.
Well, guess I've got to work my way through this list and source the best from a non-flagship bunch.
0% PWM phones launched in the last 12 months.
![Screenshot 2022-10-05 at 15.46.45.png]( "Screenshot 2022-10-05 at 15.46.45.png")
0% PWM phones launched in the last 12 months.
I doubt most of those will have a liberal return policy
I also searched for this yesterday but even if there are alternatives... I want a high end smartphone with top camera 😭
For those of us noticing thr lag, I’m curious about those who are now trying the SE 2022. Are you noticing the lag? Or does the chip make enough of a difference?
I don’t think I’ll switch from an 11 to the current SE, but I’m curious if that might help some people.
I don’t think I’ll switch from an 11 to the current SE, but I’m curious if that might help some people.
Oh wow that must be hard. How have you dealt with all of these phones? Do you have to resell them? Do you try friends’ phones first?
Well scrolling this thread helped me a bit this morning.
All this talk of leaving the ecosystem just makes my head explode. It sounds like saying hey we want to rip down all that living plant on that beautiful ivy-covered house so we can paint the whole thing construction cone orange. That is to say, I now feel a bit more willing to put up with my 11.
But I love learning about the research into other systems. Maybe there’s good out there.
All this talk of leaving the ecosystem just makes my head explode. It sounds like saying hey we want to rip down all that living plant on that beautiful ivy-covered house so we can paint the whole thing construction cone orange. That is to say, I now feel a bit more willing to put up with my 11.
But I love learning about the research into other systems. Maybe there’s good out there.
Personal choice of course. I used Amazon once about 15 years ago and have not used them since as Bezos and his company is a cesspool of sleaze, no ethics and they have done immense harm to the small and medium business landscape of North America.
I do not buy many. The two iPhone 13 minis I bought and tried over the past year were both sold at a loss to a iPhone buy and sell company.
If it’s really 60Hz they may be implementing some sort of DC dimming alternative, or that’s just at lower brightness levels.
I’ll catch up with everyone’s questions later on.
you cannot trust zollotech at all. at first he was always talking about pwm and all of a sudden he couldn't see it with the camera anymore and he doesn't have any problems with it anymore. this is dubious.. i think he got money from apple😉 to tell now that pwm is over
So the 14 Pro uses less than half the frequency the 13 Pro uses? That's curious to me.
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iPhone 14 Pro Max has similar results in the Deutsche review:
I’ve already disabled Auto-Brightness and created a brightness shortcut for 39%. Anecdotally the 480Hz rate should cause less issues, but a brighter display can negate it and cause more eye strain.
I’m slightly disappointed that they didn’t test HDR content and the PWM rate of the max 2000 nits brightness setting.
Interestingly I find that the brightness re-calibrates itself with the Always-On display off. For those that are sensitive to the 240Hz rate it may be better to disable the AOD, although it’s also disappointing that they didn’t measure the PWM rate of the AOD.