FAA Officially Allows Airlines to Expand Use of Personal Electronics on Commercial Flights

[Tyler23]

So just to clarify, all that has changed here is that you can use electronic devices during take off and landing as well as during the flight? Because I have been flying for years, and usually about 10 minutes after take off until about 20 minutes before landing, we were allowed to use "approved electronic devices", which I thought included phones and tablets on airplane mode. So I guess the only thing this rule changes is that now we can use our devices at any time? A welcome change no doubt, but nothing earth shattering.

Exactly. As of now, you can only use them when above 10,000 feet, which means from the time they close the boarding doors (so all of taxiing, and waiting in the take-off line) to about 10 minutes after you get in the air, and then about the liast 15 minutes of the flight.

Now, there will be no period where you cannot have a device on and in use (with airplane mode activated).

 

[rmwebs]

Welcome to the 21st century FAA. What took you so damn long?

Now every mobile OS needs updating to leave WiFi on when you put your device in airplane mode.

 

[Stewie]

I don't fly much, but weren't you always allowed to use these devices with the exception of during takeoff and landing?

Also, how are they going to enforce that the devices are in Airplane Mode?

The same way the enforce it now. By asking you to turn off your devices. But now they would just say put in in airplane mode. And seeing how I haven't turned off my phone in years while flying this has zero impact to me.

 

[rmwebs]

Exactly. As of now, you can only use them when above 10,000 feet, which means from the time they close the boarding doors (so all of taxiing, and waiting in the take-off line) to about 10 minutes after you get in the air, and then about the liast 15 minutes of the flight.

Now, there will be no period where you cannot have a device on and in use (with airplane mode activated).

It should also mean more airlines will allow Wifi officially. I've had wifi sharing on my laptop and had a few family members streaming from it, to my ipad throughout a flight. Hopefully this will open up airplane-wide wifi with some sort of custom Plex type media server, so that you can use your own device instead of the (often broken) in-flight systems. Airlines could make a killing allowing you to rent movies and such direct on your iPad/iPhone.

 

[grizfan]

flight crews

I sure hope airlines move quickly on this one... Imagine how tough it will be on the flight crews during the transition time, where the FAA has given the green light, but the airline still hasn't.

 

[caesarp]

It really is pathetic that people can't go without there devices, it's more about people paying attention to safety briefings they sit there ignoring the info given to them believing they know everything already, but then proceed to have no idea even when the seat belt signs are on!? Letting them use there phones even more beggars belief

You have no idea what you are talking about. The issue is READING, whether a magazine, a book or on an e-reader (which can be via an ipad, cell phone or kindle).

The new rules do NOT allow for the use of talking on cell phones. The rules allow the localized use of electronic devices for reading or what have you (but not transmitting or receiving cellular data - -so not talking on them).

And whether i'm reading a physical magazine or an ipad during the safety briefings, what's the difference?

 

[kenetic]

I don't fly much, but it's good to know we can start using our iPads now.

Reading a book or listening to music takes the edge off when the plane is about land.

 

[nburwell]

Should I admit that I've been doing this already? This myth was busted years ago, though I'm glad I won't have to hide my earbuds in my shirt anymore.

Same here. I have always put my iPhone and iPod Touch in 'Airplane Mode' anyway. I would just have my devices in my pocket, so the flight attendents didn't see them out. Once the Captain gives the clear, I take my earpods out and start listening to music.

 

[Tyler23]

It should also mean more airlines will allow Wifi officially. I've had wifi sharing on my laptop and had a few family members streaming from it, to my ipad throughout a flight. Hopefully this will open up airplane-wide wifi with some sort of custom Plex type media server, so that you can use your own device instead of the (often broken) in-flight systems. Airlines could make a killing allowing you to rent movies and such direct on your iPad/iPhone.

I solely fly Delta, so this isn't an issue for me as nearly all of our 700+ aircraft feature built-in wifi. Great being able to connect on my iPhone, Macbook or work laptop on nearly any flight.


Also very happy that Delta is the first airline to officially implement this, effective Nov. 1 on all Delta flights.

 

[rosujin]

This is fantastic news! As a frequent flyer, these rules have always been rather annoying.

I read somewhere that every domestic flight has, on average, 3 cell phones that are still completely powered on and transmitting.

Yes. Me and 2 other people.

 

[ineedamac]

Do airlines block VOIP from their Wifi? I always assumed I could fire up my magicjack app on my iPhone at 39,000 feet and make a call but I never have because I didn't want to be "that guy".

I agree with you. I have no desire to take a call while on the plane and everyone can hear what I am saying.

I do like being able to keep the music going during taxi etc. There have been times where the flight is delayed after leaving the gate and we sit there for an hour or so. It will be nice now to listen to the music without feeling like I am breaking the law.

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Also very happy that Delta is the first airline to officially implement this, effective Nov. 1 on all Delta flights.

Where did you see this? I do not see it on delta.com.

 

[cmwade77]

What's the difference between that and yapping incessantly with their seatmate?

The difference is people tend to talk much, much louder on these devices than they would with their seat mate.

 

[kdarling]

The reason for devices being stowed during take-off and landing roll is not because of their electronic danger but because they can become a physical danger in the cabin and become airborne and possibly injure someone.

Preventing objects flying around is a good reason to stow anything, electronic or not.

The specific reasoning behind not allowing electronic devices below 10,000 feet, is to try to avoid any extra distractions to the pilots during critical phases of flight... whether it's a strange-acting navigation instrument or interference in their headphones while ATC talks to them.

(There's a reason why takeoff and landing are called "critical phases of flight". It's because even a short distraction can have really bad consequences, as has been proven over and over again.)

Thankfully, contrary to popular belief, a cell phone not in airplane mode does not take down a jet.

Not directly, but if it stomped on a critical ATC transmission, it could do so indirectly.

And that's what non-pilots don't seem to get.

It's the possible distraction that can be a problem. For example, the reported cases where devices might have caused false TCAS alarms, forcing the pilots to instantly decide whether to follow the robotic anti-collision commands, or ignore them as a probable passenger device interference.

People often say, "Oh, well it didn't bother ME, so it must not be a problem"... never knowing what situations the pilots might have had to deal with.

Airlines will have to certify that their aircraft can tolerate any radio interference from the personal electronics devices,

That's a big requirement. It's not only expensive to do, it's impossible to fully test, and it's possible that some older airliners won't pass or even be tested, leading to mixed up rules within a carrier.

The upshot is, what would this allow? I mean, you couldn't let people use devices from the gate to take-off, because the flight attendants would have to walk the aisles while moving, or stop the aircraft at the end of the runway while making sure everything was stowed again.

This smacks of a feel-good announcement pushed by Congress members. Remember, this isn't the NTSB safety folk giving permission. This is the politicized FAA, who wants to promote air travel even while allowing ridiculous addon fees and smaller seats.

I think that it should be the other way around. I think that each airliner should be certified by the manufacturer, not by the users.

 

[dBeats]

I fly Delta multiple times a week, every week, and agree it's a huge deal, and very welcome. Maybe this is airline specific since I've only flown Delta the last 17 years, and you're right about after the door closes on push back, but they DO currently allow devices to be on as soon as the wheels touch at landing.

That's true, but I did get asked to "turn off" an iPad once while taxiing to the gate. Phones they are usually more lenient with. Again, makes no sense. One is bigger but they both have the same radio frequencies and strengths.

 

[TheAppleFairy]

Not directly, but if it stomped on a critical ATC transmission, it could do so indirectly.

And that's what non-pilots don't seem to get.

What does the ATC use to transmit? I am pretty sure it's some sort of VHF radio frequency. What cellphone has the ability?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Virgin Atlantic already uses GSM?

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-05/17/virgin-atlantic-mobile-phones


http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en/the-virgin-experience/in-flight-connectivity/mobile-phones.html

Virgin Atlantic is a British airline and is governed by CAA rules rather than FAA.

Whilst over the US the system is disabled and will remain so.

 

[cclloyd]

This.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYAq-7sOzXQ

 

[giantfan1224]

That's a big requirement. It's not only expensive to do, it's impossible to fully test, and it's possible that some older airliners won't pass or even be tested, leading to mixed up rules within a carrier.

The upshot is, what would this allow? I mean, you couldn't let people use devices from the gate to take-off, because the flight attendants would have to walk the aisles while moving, or stop the aircraft at the end of the runway while making sure everything was stowed again.

This smacks of a feel-good announcement pushed by Congress members. Remember, this isn't the NTSB safety folk giving permission. This is the politicized FAA, who wants to promote air travel even while allowing ridiculous addon fees and smaller seats.

I think that it should be the other way around. I think that each airliner should be certified by the manufacturer, not by the users.

Are you a pilot? I have three close family members who have a combined 50+ years of commercial pilot experience and all of them agree wholeheartedly with the FAA's lifting of the restriction. Whenever I ask them about it, they roll their eyes and say the restriction on electronic devices was completely unnecessary and ridiculous.

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Interestingly enough, there IS a difference:

http://healthland.time.com/2013/03/14/why-overheard-cell-phone-conversations-are-so-annoying/

To me they're about as equally annoying but if a scientist tells me I should be more annoyed by the one-sided conversation then I guess I am.

 

[caesarp]

The upshot is, what would this allow? I mean, you couldn't let people use devices from the gate to take-off, because the flight attendants would have to walk the aisles while moving, or stop the aircraft at the end of the runway while making sure everything was stowed again.

.

No. Devices like tablets and cell phones do not have to be stowed. Only HEAVY laptops and other such items per the new regs.

Devices can now (subject to airline certification) be used from gate to gate. So there is no need for stop at the end of the runway to stow them.

 

[Analog Kid]

Well, contrary to so many people's expectations, the FAA didn't say "the mass scientific experiment of civil disobedience has proven that all electronics are safe on aircraft".

Is this any different than the existing rules that allowed a carrier to set their own policy if they provided test results to the FAA that proved their aircraft would not be unsafe with PEDs in operation?

A friend of mine who has been in the Airforce/Navy and currently active with the Army doesn't even put his phone into airplane mode, and told me it does not affect anything.

I love logic like this. "My friend who's a radio engineer told me the best way to invade a small country."

 

[TheAppleFairy]

I am pretty sure "The Onion" will be doing a news story today about planes dropping out of the sky right after the FAA expanded use of electronic devices.

 

[ssspinball]

Heaven forbid people put away their digital pacifiers for a moment.

WILL YOU DAMN KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!

Do you get annoyed by people reading books as well? Why is that any different?

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If there wasn't a breakdown in society and people actually knew how to behave in public, I wouldn't have a problem with this.
Sadly the last couple generations are filled with self-centered ass holes.

The problem with this line of thinking is that every generation thinks the following generations are worse. It's a story as old as time.

 

[kdarling]

What does the ATC use to transmit? I am pretty sure it's some sort of VHF radio frequency. What cellphone has the ability?

With cell phones, it's not so often the high frequencies that interfere with comms (although they might with navigation), but the lower audio frequency buzz such as GSM/GPRS phones put out. The phone doesn't have to be near the cockpit to cause this. The signals are not only bounced around inside the metal tube, but also travel via antenna wires that span the aircraft. One is annoying enough. A hundred could be messy.

GSM buzz used to be cited more in the older anonymous safety reports that pilots give to NASA, so it's uncertain if the interference is less nowadays due to better avionics shielding, or if pilots simply stopped reporting it. (I'd be more worried about it in older commuter turboprops, which also usually have much less experienced pilots.)

 

[TheAppleFairy]

It's not so much the high frequencies that interfere with comms, but the lower audio frequency buzz such as GSM/GPRS phones put out. The phone doesn't have to be near the cockpit to cause this. The signals are not only bounced around inside the metal tube, but also travel via antenna wires that span the aircraft.

GSM buzz used to be cited more in the older anonymous safety reports that pilots give to NASA, so it's uncertain if the interference is less now due to better avionics shielding, or if pilots simply stopped reporting it. (I'd be more worried about it in older commuter turboprops, which also usually have much less experienced pilots.)

GSM buzz is something that easy to shield. I've never worked on aircraft, but I would imagine there is some sort of shielding involved.

 

[kdarling]

No. Devices like tablets and cell phones do not have to be stowed. Only HEAVY laptops and other such items per the new regs.

Devices can now (subject to airline certification) be used from gate to gate. So there is no need for stop at the end of the runway to stow them.

Thanks.

That sounds like heaven for parents with kids. Nothing like an iPad to keep kids busy!