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The reason for cellular needing to be off is an FCC regulation (as mentioned in the article. And the reason for that has to do with how the cell system works. If a phone is in the air, the signal will hit too many towers - rather the one or two that it's designed for. That's a very simplistic way to describe it, but I think it covers the basic reason.

Anyway - yay. It's about time. (And, I do understand the engineering behind the decision - being both an engineer and commercial pilot.)
 
Thank god that ugly, overpaid bitter crone can't threaten me with criminal prosecution because I merely put my phone in standby mode rather than yanking the battery as she commanded.

That's it! You hit it on the nose. It's not so much the digital pacifier as the clueless flight attendants with the neo Nazi attitudes.

No more, beoch!
 
People need to realize that until the carriers amend their rules - nothing changes.

Regardless of the FAA's decision to allow this, carriers can (foolishly, IMO) decide to keep their current policies.

It is their airplane, and the FAs and the PIC still have lordship over you.
 
I love the fact that airlines don't allow you to use cellular service (not like you'll be able to 5 miles up anyways) but have wifi built in the plane. Based on regulations, these shouldn't be allowed either.
 
You're being a bit melodramatic. They may not be "scientists of radio interference and electronics" but commercial pilots are very well trained in the use of aviation instruments. I'll take their opinion on electronic interference in an airplane over anonymous internet forum participants. But that's just me...:rolleyes:

Just because you can operate a vehicle, TV, computer, etc does not mean you know its vulnerabilities.
 
So MacRumors got this completely wrong. Below 10,000 is considered take off or landing, so requiring that they're off for that is leaving the rules unchanged.

What is actually happening is that you can use phones, tablets and e-readers with cellular antennas deactivated DURING those times now, and laptops and larger things need to be stowed for simple size concerns. Here's real journalism to clear this up for people:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304527504579169542339497208
 
Outside the USA

Anybody have insights on adoption of this new policy by carriers based outside of the US? What is the expected timeframe for other aviation agencies to approve this policy (if at all)? I'm particularly interested in Canada.
 
Great news

This is terrific news. Flying is annoying from the time you line up through security and have to strip down to the filthiness of the planes themselves (they are flying bacteria farms, aren't they?) to what we all knew was total BS about now being able to use your tablet in airplane mode until we get to 10K feet.

But if the airlines ever allow phone calls on planes, I would probably go postal. It's bad enough to have to sit next to someone who wants to talk your ear off but if some ******* decides to strike up a 30 minute phone conversation sitting next to me, well, alert the TSA cuz I am bound to go medieval on someone. :eek:
 
Welcome to the 21st century FAA. What took you so damn long?

Now every mobile OS needs updating to leave WiFi on when you put your device in airplane mode.

Why? You can already turn WiFi back on after turning airplane mode on. Plus there are other countries apart from the U.S.
 
I'm flying Intenational back to the US and then connecting on a domestic flight. Be curious if I hear anything new. I doubt it.
 
And how does he know? Is he going by "well I've never crashed in a jet so it must not do anything". They have been known to intermittently interfere with radios in the cockpit etc. I'm a radio/radar technician in the Air Force and we constantly have pilots complaining about interferance, because somebody on the ground near the radio position had a mobile phone on and that static buzz noise got transmitted along with the radio, and they would miss vital parts of the transmission.

This is sometimes known as "GSM buzz" and it's very different from actual radio interference. It's a purely inductive effect, and it is not the RADIO frequency you're hearing but the actual pulse frequency of GSM TDMA (time division multiple access) getting induced then carried along the wiring until it can directly drive speakers/microphones near it. Yes, it's annoying as heck. But it won't take down a plane, it's effect is on speakers and microphones, not sensitive instruments.

P.S. It also is an almost non-issue in CDMA and UMTS and a barely-an-issue in Wi-Fi and LTE. GSM was the worst because the frequency was very audible.
 
Regarding the heavy item and magazine clause, basically they're saying you still can't put the tray tables down, so any magazines or whatever have to be held in your hands or in the seat back. I can see most carriers having rules that traditional laptops must be stowed until 10,000.
 
I don't doubt that there have been instances of interference. There's inherent risk in flying anyway, because what goes up, might come crashing down.

I personally believe the rate of occurrence where it could cause a major issue falls within the zone of acceptable risk. And I believe the FAA is finally recognizing that, thank goodness.

An "acceptable risk" is one where all reasonable safety precautions have been taken.

This is more like a political "calculated risk", where managers remove some safety rules, throw the dice, and bet that nothing bad happens. (Like launching the Challenger in the cold.)

Some things to note:

-- The FAA is not the NTSB

This is the same airline-friendly FAA that for years ignored the NTSB's recommendation for smoke detectors and fire extinguishers in passenger plane cargo holds... because the $350 million installation cost to the airlines would be more than double the $160 million (*) in lives that they estimated would be lost to fires.

That is, until ValuJet 592 caught fire inside its hold and mercifully dove into the Everglades at 500 mph. That was 110 lives lost at once in a horrible way, which finally tipped the FAA and airline monetary and political scales into it no longer being an "acceptable risk".

(*) Back then, the FAA used $2.5 million per life as the calculation as to whether or not a safety feature was needed. Now it's $3 million.

-- Critical phase still exists

The FAA covered its butt by adding that "In some instances of low visibility – about one percent of flights – some landing systems may not be proved PED tolerant, so you may be asked to turn off your device."

In other words, for the average 250 US flights a day that must land by instruments, the pilots might have to ask the passengers to turn off their devices anyway.

To which the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) has understandably expressed its concern that passengers will face mixed signals (no pun intended) when pilots ask that devices be turned off in such situations.

-- Age of the fleet

Jet Blue has applied for approval right away. Considering that most of their airliners are fairly new, that's understandable.

Some of the other airlines have planes averaging up to 20 years old. Many have avionics suites that are years old. That is, they were designed before passenger electronics became a big issue.

I think this will be the biggest problem: that allowing usage all the time makes sense in some aircraft, but not others. One day all aircraft in service will be hardened against interference, but we're not there yet.
 
good, i do not have to switch off the ipod during take off, that time when the plane ascent, is the best time to sleep.
 
In the same manner, you please put away your books and magazines and look at the chair in front or at the McDonalds meal that your neighbour is eating next to you for ten minutes as the plane ascends.

It's not about technology or any hypothetical addiction to it. But some people like you are too thick to understand that.

You can't stand few minutes with yourself...
You need a distraction. That's your problem because if you really believe that having to turn off a electronic device for literally few minutes is such a BIG DEAL then you should seek addiction specialist or simply get a life.
Just close your eyes and relax a bit. Works wonders.

PS. Why would you read a book in McDonalds?? Does eating and observing REAL WORLD make you nervous or something? Yep it does.

A quote by John Hughes that fits your issue.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you will miss it."
 
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Thankfully, contrary to popular belief, a cell phone not in airplane mode does not take down a jet. Otherwise, Al Qaeda would've figured that one out and just sent terrorists on planes with phones powered up and transmitting during takeoff.

Every time I fly I can see this isn't true: As we get lower to land and cell phone towers come into range you can hear all the phones on the plane start beeping that they have text messages and voicemails. Clearly these phones were on the whole flight and are now getting into range. The larger downside of leaving your cellular phone on (not in airplane mode) during fight is that it drains the battery more since it's constantly looking for cell phone towers (at least when I'm in areas with no cell phone coverage it sure seems like my battery drains faster).

Gary

----------

.Why would you read a book in McDonalds??

Because I like to read.

People don't like it when I read at work or when I'm driving!

When I'm eating is a nice time to read. It's better than watching TV...

Gary

----------

The reason for cellular needing to be off is an FCC regulation (as mentioned in the article. And the reason for that has to do with how the cell system works. If a phone is in the air, the signal will hit too many towers - rather the one or two that it's designed for. That's a very simplistic way to describe it, but I think it covers the basic reason.

That actually makes a bit of sense, but I'm not sure how many more towers I'm hitting from being in a plane (farther up) than at the top of a tall building floors in a city with a lot of coverage.

Going 500 MPH is making me jump cellular towers a whole lot faster than when I'm in a car. Not sure if that's any kind of issue.

Gary

----------

Also, how are they going to enforce that the devices are in Airplane Mode?

All they have to do is ask you to show them the little airplane icon.

Gary
 
So much for all the "Chicken Little" drama being spread around this thread...

Delta and Jet Blue are allowing passengers to use their electronic devices during take off and landing, effectively immediately.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...ices-on-jetblue-and-delta-starting-right-now/

An "acceptable risk" is one where all reasonable safety precautions have been taken.

This is more like a political "calculated risk", where managers remove some safety rules, throw the dice, and bet that nothing bad happens. (Like launching the Challenger in the cold.)

Some things to note:

-- The FAA is not the NTSB

This is the same airline-friendly FAA that for years ignored the NTSB's recommendation for smoke detectors and fire extinguishers in passenger plane cargo holds... because the $350 million installation cost to the airlines would be more than double the $160 million (*) in lives that they estimated would be lost to fires.

That is, until ValuJet 592 caught fire inside its hold and mercifully dove into the Everglades at 500 mph. That was 110 lives lost at once in a horrible way, which finally tipped the FAA and airline monetary and political scales into it no longer being an "acceptable risk".

(*) Back then, the FAA used $2.5 million per life as the calculation as to whether or not a safety feature was needed. Now it's $3 million.

-- Critical phase still exists

The FAA covered its butt by adding that "In some instances of low visibility – about one percent of flights – some landing systems may not be proved PED tolerant, so you may be asked to turn off your device."

In other words, for the average 250 US flights a day that must land by instruments, the pilots might have to ask the passengers to turn off their devices anyway.

To which the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) has understandably expressed its concern that passengers will face mixed signals (no pun intended) when pilots ask that devices be turned off in such situations.

-- Age of the fleet

Jet Blue has applied for approval right away. Considering that most of their airliners are fairly new, that's understandable.

Some of the other airlines have planes averaging up to 20 years old. Many have avionics suites that are years old. That is, they were designed before passenger electronics became a big issue.

I think this will be the biggest problem: that allowing usage all the time makes sense in some aircraft, but not others. One day all aircraft in service will be hardened against interference, but we're not there yet.
 
You can't stand few minutes with yourself...
You need a distraction. That's your problem because if you really believe that having to turn off a electronic device for literally few minutes is such a BIG DEAL then you should seek addiction specialist or simply get a life.
Just close your eyes and relax a bit. Works wonders.

PS. Why would you read a book in McDonalds?? Does eating and observing REAL WORLD make you nervous or something? Yep it does.

A quote by John Hughes that fits your issue.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you will miss it."

I do not have any issues my friend. Get off of your high horse. I like to spend my time on planes reading. The medium that I do it on doesn't say anything about me.

But I will take one piece of advice. I'm putting you on my ignore list. That will certainly help in getting me to relax and pay attention to what is important. I can do without your self-entitled posts.

Regarding your PS: I was referring to the disgusting habit of some Americans to eat their fastfood lunches on the plane. I'm glad this hasn't penetrated to Europe yet.
 
I was on 2 United flights today in the USA

Both made me turn off my phone.

I didn't want to argue, but clearly some carriers have not yet changed THEIR rules. Wish they would hurry up. These flight attendants are real *******s.
 
I was on 2 United flights today in the USA

Both made me turn off my phone.

I didn't want to argue, but clearly some carriers have not yet changed THEIR rules. Wish they would hurry up. These flight attendants are real *******s.

You can use electronic devices but not phones with cellular reception on.
It's a difference and a significant one.
 
Except ...

I've been on a number of flights, even many years ago, where phones were provided - built into the seat-backs of the seats in front of you. They weren't cheap to use -- but they existed.

I listen to people talking on their cellphones the whole time while I'm on the train or the metro in the DC area. It's one of those things you just learn to tune out, or else you'll go crazy trying to eavesdrop on one half of a conversation going on by you.


I honestly hope Airlines keep throttling wifi so that people don't use it for voice over IP call. Imagine sitting next to somonechatting away on Viber or Skype throughout the flight
 
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