Facebook Says Apple's Upcoming Anti-Tracking Prompt is 'More About Profit Than Privacy' [Updated]

[Lemon Olive]

which can then be used in all the sinister ways that the term “track” implies.

Such as?

 

[TrueBlou]

I'd go so far as to suggest it is impossible for any normal person to read though the T&C of every bit of software they install/use. The other day I say a reference to some software or other which had something like 500 pages of T&C.

And, if you think you could manage that, some company will just keep making it longer and longer until it is impossible.

Remembering that we have to interpret those T&C in conjunction with the law where we are, the law in which the T&C are cast and claimed to be justiciable. And every time there is an update we have to acquaint ourselves with any changes - which might or might not be easy to identify. In fact, every time here is a case which interprets the law anew or differently, we have to add that to the T&C as they apply.

Even restricting yourself to the few things you most use, it is an impossible task.

We need basic model T&C which apply at least across whole countries and do so pretty much automatically.

Couldn’t agree more my friend, speaking as one of the idiots who does trawl through the t&c for any service I have doubts about.

I said much the same thing yesterday, it’s not just that these materials are available to read. It’s that most are written in legalese, or use misleading terms, buried in so much text it would make a supercomputer baulk.

Your average punter doesn’t stand a chance, instead they just hit the - I don’t care, I must share my amusing meme with the world button.

Which is why I’m all in favour of simple, clear, relevant information being presented to people. So long as it is applied universally and fairly.

 

[Steve Adams]

That’s a helluva first post. Good to know, thank you. This needs its own article. I just logged on and have some catching up to do to see what discussion or coverage exists here on this site regarding this unsavory revelation.

Like I said, I am not partial either way, I use windows notebooks now, but I am seriously thinking about a new macbook pro. This is just something that I have read and shared it with the readers here, since we are talking about privacy and apple. I don't know if it's accurate, but I know that notebookcheck is a fairly reliable source of tech information and I doubt they post, dare I say it, "fake NEUZ".

 

[Rafagon]

Will there be a system-wide setting where you can set Ask App Not to Track once and for all? I don't want to be asked multiple times. My answer is always going to be the same: DENY PERMISSION TO TRACK.

 

[Rafagon]

I may have found it already. If I have this set to Off, apps won't even get the chance to ask permission to track, am I right?

So what changes in January? This setting, it appears to me, already pre-emptively denies apps the opportunity to ask me if they can track me.

 

[theotherphil]

Here’s what’s going to happen,
Facebook takes Instagram etc off of iPhones. Forces you to use safari

iPhone users complain. Apple either caves or creates their own social media platform.
Apple does not want to be in the social media business, too much money to invest in it.

I removed the Facebook apps from my phone because they are a huge battery drain....it’s the best thing that I ever did. I only access Facebook now from a Brave Browser with a Facebook isolated profile.

 

[theotherphil]

For anyone in the UK, facebook is now apparently going to relocate all your data to California. Removing it from the protection of EU regulation and opening it up (further) to USA authorities.

Funny how they have not taken out full page adverts to tell us all about this change.

As UK breaks away from Europe, Facebook tells Brits: You'll all be Californians soon​

Boris can’t manage a US trade deal, so antisocial media giant has done it for him​

As Brits wake up to Brexit next month, most will no longer find themselves stuck on an island in the Atlantic but ensconced in sunny California, courtesy of Facebook.

The social media giant has decided that, legally speaking, it makes much more sense for UK residents to stop officially residing in Europe and will pile all British Facebook souls onto a boat and ship ‘em to the Golden State, as it has with others in the world.

Why? Privacy, of course. European citizens are covered by the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), which prevents Facebook from gathering and selling their personal information without explicit permission. But Facebook loves selling people’s personal data – so much in fact it has built the entire company’s business model around it. And so, you leave Europe, you end up in California.
https://www.theregister.com/2020/12/16/facebook_uk_users/

And it’d be pretty easy for the UK to pass a law saying that all that data regarding UK Subjects must reside on servers in the UK.

 

[polyphenol]

And it’d be pretty easy for the UK to pass a law saying that all that data regarding UK Subjects must reside on servers in the UK.

We'd need a government with the will and ability to do that.

And, until we know how brexit falls (or falls apart), we cannot know if anything agreed with the EU could cause problems in implementing the UK server requirement.

 

[Tech198]

The fact that Facebook is desperate to prevent users from opting out of targeted tracking tells you everything you need to know about their business model.

There's nothing wrong with Apple pursuing its profit motive. The key distinction is how Apple and Facebook generate profit. Only one of these companies generates 99% of its profit from advertising. The other is a hardware company.

Ya, but that won't change users behavior who are already being tracked.... Its just a popup,,, all you gotta do is say "Allow tracking", just one extra tap..

but that's not good enough. Facebook probably sees it as "if users KNEW, they would be more likely to not allow tracking"

one sided dice. Info should be more forefront, and Apple is doing that..

 

[v3rlon]

Really? Every post on here is that Apple is perfect and its ok for them to track. They can track all they want and targets users because Apple is just, and righteous, and good. BUT the big but is no-one else can track because they aren't Apple. And yea they don't have $2T in the bank, fine they are worth over $2T and they use that net worth to get what they want from other companies.

Really? Because I get the sense from your post that you do not think Apple is perfect, and I out and out said it, so "every post on here.." is disingenuous at best. There are quite a few posts that imply Apple can do no right (and really, why come here if you feel that way? but I digress).

Apple says they hold themselves to the same standard they hold third parties with regard to tracking. Now, you can CHOOSE not to believe that if you like. But, (and this is a big BUT) if you want to CLAIM they are lying, you need to bring some proof. "It's obvious that..." or "Rumor has it.." or "Everyone else does.." is not proof. Bring real proof.

Yeah, companies worth a ton of money leverage that to get what they want. People who have money use it to buy what they want. That is what you do when you have money. If you are planning to not buy from entities that use money for leverage, you need to sell everything and start farming somewhere. You might not even be able to buy from YOU.

Certainly, you cannot buy Apple, Samsung, LG, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Kraft Foods, General Mills, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Any telco anyone has heard of (How DO you connect to the internet?) including AT&T, Spectrum, Comcast, Google, Verizon, T-Mobile, and a whole host of others. So you are looking for a reason to be outraged at Apple. I can't even say good for you because that outrage is actually, measurably, bad for you. Best I can do is advise you to get over it.

 

[v3rlon]

Oh really? So when you open up an apple app will you get the popup to allow or decline tracking. NOONONONONONOONO you will not. That popup will only come on third party apps. If you want to turn off Apple's tracking, you have to manually go into the settings and find the toggle to turn it off, which the vast majority of users will never do.

Hmm... "Do you want to allow garage band to access the microphone?"

"Do you want to allow Maps to use your location?"

"Do you want to allow Facetime to use your Camera?"

Looks like those popups happen for Apple Apps too.

 

[v3rlon]

I'm not defending Facebook. I am calling out Apple. Apple is not some kind of messianic company. They are tracking and targeting their users for billions of dollars. Everyone likes to throw stones at not just Facebook but google and all the other social media companies. BUT they don't realize that they are using all those social media apps and video apps for free. BUT they gave thousands and thousands of their dollars away to Apple. So who's worse in this scenario. We are in the middle of a pandemic for almost all of 2020 and people are hurting financially. Apple charges $1000 for their phones, but Google and Facebook give you platforms you love to use FOR FREE. Apple lets you into their ecosystem after you part with thousands of dollars. Google and Facebook et all do it without touching your wallet. They just target you with ads. OH THE HUMANITY!

No one is giving you anything FOR FREE. If you aren't paying $$, you are selling yourself, and quite probably getting less than market value sense you can't really negotiate.

Apple charges $1000 for their phone. Buy it or not. If you are hurting for cash, then don't. Buy used even. Apple will still work if you pick up last years model or even a 4 year old model if you choose.

And you miss the MUCH more nefarious picture of how all this tracking data can be misused. With just your birthdate and zip code, I can de-anonymize you with 95% accuracy. Write 1500 pages of data about yourself in a 12 point font, and how hard do you think it would be to pick you out? If we don't fight for privacy, but you keep on defending FB (and you ARE defending FB, you are just doing so by trying to point out how Apple is just as bad, which is completely preposterous).

 

[SRLMJ23]

"If we don't, they will block Facebook from the App Store...”

One can only dream. Facebook is a disease.

Amen to that comment, I agree 100%!

Facebook has caused a massive decline in personal social interaction, especially effecting a lot of the younger generation as they do not engage with people in face-to-face conversation, and if they do it is very awkward for them and they feel very uncomfortable. It is awkward for us that are older (and hell I am only 35) because when they do try and have a face-to-face conversation they cannot keep eye contact, they look down a lot, give one word or extremely basic answers to questions, end the conversation quickly, etc, and just feel "out of their element".

It is like trying to have a conversation with that very, very, very, VERY shy person you went to high school or sometimes college with. This younger generation, and to clarify I am talking ages around thirteen to mid-twenties in a lot of cases (obviously there are exceptions and there are a lot of younger kids/young adults that can and are happy to speak face-to-face) has been ravaged by social media and would much rather text direct message you when you are sitting at the same table with them! It has ruined the dating scene, like when my friends and I go out to nice restaurants/bars it is so hard for us to talk with women in their lower to mid-twenties because as I explained it is so awkward for both of us, however, talking with women generally around twenty-eight(ish) and up is generally rather easy.

I can only imagine what it is like to be a teenager in high school these days (not counting the COVID-19 shutdowns, which in my opinion will cause even more social situation issues, and many more) trying to date and whatnot. Maybe they are just so used to it that they just direct message all day and that is how they date now, kind of taking the physical part out of dating?

Whatever the case, it is sad.

Everyone have a Merry Christmas (if you celebrate - if not Happy Holidays) and a Happy New Year, Godspeed!

 

[SRLMJ23]

Love this kind of thinking. Facebook is bad because they provide a service I use for free, but they generate 99% of their income through advertising. Apple is good because I give them thousands and thousands of dollars for all my gadgets which become obsolete in a year, but they still had a ad platform which is not subject to any regulation. It's ok that Apple does it because they don't generate as much of their income from advertising as Facebook does. Damn do the cultists on here even stop and think about their rationalizations before they type them out?

What Apple device that you have bought has become obsolete in a year? Apple actually supports its products much longer than almost any other tech company, and that is a fact, and I am no Apple cultist.

 

[waveman]

I have a small business as a side job. When I post on Facebook from my business page Facebooks algorithms are setup so basically no one ever sees it, even if they have liked my page. They made this change a few years ago as a HUGE money grab. Don't even get me started on the way they treat small businesses on Instagram.

Exactly that. I remember investing small amounts of money to promote some posts, and all I got was likes from fake FB profiles of non existent people who never respond to messages and who have over 2000 friends and like everything that exists on the platform. And of you want to complain? Well, there is no customer support and never will be. This platform is to make money, and only for that. So, FB is not a Santa Klaus trying to help small businesses, they're only trying to help themselves.

We're only trash cans for their ads.

 

[44267547]

You can't even pay to not see ads. Get a subscription to NYT and guess what, still ads and tracking

False. I currently have a subscription and that does not apply where I have ads or tracking. [And yes, I double checked my source to make sure neither of which apply.]

Oh, you don’t have to pay to not see ads, there’s plenty of ways around that if you’re versed in some simple tactics that will prohibit tracing.

 

[Covfam]

Love this kind of thinking. Facebook is bad because they provide a service I use for free, but they generate 99% of their income through advertising. Apple is good because I give them thousands and thousands of dollars for all my gadgets which become obsolete in a year, but they still had a ad platform which is not subject to any regulation. It's ok that Apple does it because they don't generate as much of their income from advertising as Facebook does. Damn do the cultists on here even stop and think about their rationalizations before they type them out?

Your apple gadgets are obsolete in a year? .wow my 4 year old apple tv still runs everything, my iphone x is still running ios 14 fine, my 4 year old ipad pro still runs everything my 3 year old airpods work fine...if your buying an i device every year then you are buying into their magic fairy dust campaign every year, buying apple device every release cycle is for addicts.

 

[Abazigal]

Someone remind me who the liars and the manipulators are again?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1343985841153175562

 

[smallcoffee]

False. I currently have a subscription and that does not apply where I have ads or tracking. [And yes, I double checked my source to make sure neither of which apply.]

Oh, you don’t have to pay to not see ads, there’s plenty of ways around that if you’re versed in some simple tactics that will prohibit tracing.

I employ ad blockers and the like. The point is that you have to even do that even if you pay for the product.

And you're wrong about NYT, at a minimum they are using tracking and targeting cookies even if they don't display ads. I don't have a subscription so I can't confirm the ad part of it, but the point wasn't about NYT specifically. Others like the WSJ show ads in the WSJ app, for example, even if you pay for a subscription.

 

[Steve Adams]

Your apple gadgets are obsolete in a year? .wow my 4 year old apple tv still runs everything, my iphone x is still running ios 14 fine, my 4 year old ipad pro still runs everything my 3 year old airpods work fine...if your buying an i device every year then you are buying into their magic fairy dust campaign every year, buying apple device every release cycle is for addicts.

That is one thing that apple does in the iOS side of things. Updates. On the pc side of things, not so much. Which is weird. My son has my old iphone 6s and it's running 14.4 like a champ. However, macbooks are paperweights in 5 or 6 years when they can, quite easily run MacOS for years beyond that if they just allowed updating. I have a 2007 acer that is running windows 10 20H2 perfectly fine.