Because there is no "setup." You click on the person, either in the call or via your address book, and if they accept your FaceTiming. Just like a call.
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Facetime and talk minutes
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Because there is no "setup." You click on the person, either in the call or via your address book, and if they accept your FaceTiming. Just like a call.
How can my address book be aware of who's got an iPhone 4 and is under wifi?
Even if we imagine an itunes_activation-self-generated "facetime account" linked to every iPhone 4 and saved in the apple cloud (waiting to be called when said iphone goes under wifi), how can said account be linked to contacts in the address books of people knowing that person? It cannot be based on names (I could call you "Mickey Mouse" on my address book, plus Apple cannot automatically watch inside my address book), it cannot be based on the phone number of the microsim inserted in the iphone (--> ipod touch has no sim), so how can it possibly be zero setup?
There must be some kind of setup, like assigning to an item in my address book the alias of the facetime account of my friend.....
Those are good questions...
Here's my take on it: (keep in mind - I don't know if this is true or not)
Two scenarios come to mind, the first one being you're supposed to know who has a compatible device and when they are near WiFi. You simply try to initiate a FaceTime chat and if they're connected via WiFi with an eligible device - it just works.
The second scenario, which I hope is the case, when you're on a call or access your address book a little green circle appears by their name if they have a FaceTime compatible device and currently connected via WiFi. It could be a different shape or notification, just something that notifies you.
**EDIT** using the push notification system your iPhone 4 or compatible device could stay up to date as to whom is connected via WiFi.
Now, none of these could exist, there could be something totally different. I do see most FaceTime chats first starting out as calls. I hope there is a notification in there to make things work better, after all Apple is all about the experience.
Both those scenarios answer to the "compatibility/presence" issue, but not to the "setup issue" or "how the will ITEMS in my address book be linked to that particular iDevice I want to call".
In the first scenario, you say "you try to initiate a FaceTime call". You mean, I tap on a contact in my address book. That contact happens to have phone numbers, addresses, email address, birthdate...but nothing else, usually. How is that linked to his iDevice? There must be some kind of setup or itunes activation based on a unique serial number of the iDevice, generating an alias to give out to friends....
If it's not clear, I make an example:
- John is a friend of mine
- In my address book, I call him Mickey Mouse, just for fun
- Tom, another friend of us call him Douchebag85 in his address book
- Both me and Tom have John's phone number and email address registered in the aforementioned address book items (Mickey Mouse and Douchebag85)
- John owns an iDevice, facetime capable
- if I tap on "Mickey Mouse" on my address book, how on earth should the iphone EVEN TRY to initiate a FaceTime call with said iDevice? My iPhone's just got a phone number, an email address and a nickname invented by me. Address books are not universal and centralized, you can only call a NUMBER, not a person, or you can call a nickname (in skype, etc) but that requires a setup. You cannot call a real PERSON or a particular iDevice, without setting up some kind of nickname or the serial number of the iDevice.
- the same if Tom taps on "Douchebag85", or if any of the friends of John taps on the (sometimes) fake name under which they registered John number in their address books
There must be something to link the unique serial number of the iDevice to a unique FaceTime account and people should be link those accounts to their address book items IN ADVANCE. I cannot see how can it be zero setup.
That's why I think there will be a notification of some type that automatically appears in your address book if they have a compatible device. By no setup I think Apple means you don't have to install any 3rd party software, buy any cameras and plug them in etc...
Think of these forums for instance. Under the name at the bottom of a post, the circle goes green when they are online. Did you set anything up to let you know? Of course not. I think FaceTime will work with in a similar fashion.
Maybe your iPhone 4 sends out a notification to all cell numbers in your address book that says "Hey, I have an iPhone 4." Now obviously you never see this message, it's all done "behind the scenes."
Also look at it this way, do you know which friends have an iPhone? I do, I'm pretty sure I will know which one has an iPhone 4 shortly after they get it as well.
Both scenarios could work, I prefer one that notifies me of the devices and WiFi status.
According to Apple's website, all you have to do is go to your contacts, and click the FaceTime button. (Presumably, clicking that arrow on the right first). NO CELLULAR DATA REQUIRED. But if you are already on the call, and want to go Video, then it will be required, but only for the voice-only part.
Thank you and have a nice day.
Thank you and have a nice day.
According to Apple's website, all you have to do is go to your contacts, and click the FaceTime button. (Presumably, clicking that arrow on the right first). NO CELLULAR DATA REQUIRED. But if you are already on the call, and want to go Video, then it will be required, but only for the voice-only part.
Thank you and have a nice day.
Yep, that's all pretty obvious....
What the discussion has been about, if you cared to actually read, as to how you know they have a compatible device without first speaking to them. How do you know they are on a WiFi network able participate in FaceTime.
Thanks, have a nice night....
No they don't. They give you an option not to use your minutes while using the microcell
"They"...who?
My address book could be a bunch of fake or mispelled names, linked to phone numbers and a couple of email addresses.
There must be a common layer to link/notificate/you_call_it_how_you_want the items in my address book to the "list of existing facetime capable idevices" stored in the apple cloud.
That common layer could be some kind of "facetime nickname" linked to the serial of the iDevice.
No way this stuff could rely on mispelled names in my address book and hundreds of other addrress books.
Download the keynote podcast and go to 1:32:30.
Steve: "and there is no set up required, you don't have to find a server, you don't have to type in anything, you don't need a special code, you don't need a buddy list, nothing, you just make a phone call."
You don't have to type in anything in advance. How the hell is my iDevice supposed to be linked to contacts in my friends' address books?
This forum has a CENTRALIZED address book: the users in forum database!
The users of the forums are in the same common layer: the UNIQUE nicknames they choose.
You cannot compare that to a situation in which my person is registered under different nicknames in my friends phone and, more importantly, my iDevice has no link at all with those nicknames. It's not centralized.
There's no such thing as sending notifications to "cell numbers". (not even behind the scenes)
You send notifications to APPS, in which people have already setup an ACCOUNT. (e.g. facebook app).
Of course I could know, but my iPhone will not know until I do some kind of setup to link people names to iDevice serial numbers.
Ok, you gotta look at what I've been typing. For one they are ideas as no one truly knows just yet.
There are notifications that go to other things than just apps. For instance, what do you think the signal strength on your iPhone is to begin with... It's code that goes between your iPhone and some towers to determine signal strength.
Maybe I should have used a term other than push notifications, but it was the first that came to mind. The forum is actually a good example.
Your address book is centralized to your iPhone. Without knowing how FaceTime really works, your device will transmit code that identifies it as being FaceTime compatible. Same as your friends iPhone 4s. Once your iPhone 4 has received the "code" it marks the contact as being FaceTime ready.
So when you go into your address book, you'll see a little icon that means your friend can FaceTime with you. Hopefully there will be a way to know just by looking, via some communications protocol, whether or not they are connected via WiFi.
For all we know you just press the button and hope that it works.
What contact?
For Apple, I'm just an iTunes account. That's the only thing they can associate to my FaceTime capable device serial number. That's the only thing that can be marked as "facetime ready". Fine.
But for my friends, I'm "Douchebag1985", "italian dude", "jack the ripper", "name surname", depending on the address book of every friend. It's not like they know my itunes account and saved my itunes email address under my contact in their address books.
There's no common layer between what Apple knows about me (and could be marked as being FaceTime ready) and what my friends write about me in their own address books.
so if you jailbreak the iPhone 4 and download 3G Unrestrictor, you trick the iPhone 4 into thinking its on Wi-Fi...
No minutes used??? I'm I right here?
No minutes used??? I'm I right here?
OK, after I started typing a reply about how phone numbers stay the same regardless of the name, I saw where you were going with your thought process.
For non-phone devices - I have absolutely no clue. Maybe iChat will be out to take advantage of FaceTime once iPods and iPads get the upgrade. With iChat it would be tied to username.
If that will be the case, there WILL be something to "type in".
You will type in your iChat username and password in your iDevice.
Your friends will type in your iChat address in their address books under your name.
Maybe Jobs meant you have to do this (or something like this) only once so technically you don't have to type in anything everytime....but that also applies to other services....
Upon reading this thread, I have came up with my own idea of how this might work.
SO. You get your brand new iPhone 4.
The first thing you need to do is activate it.
If you buy in-store, this will be done for you.
The moment the iPhone 4 is connected to iTunes or even at first initial boot-up, the necessary components are sent to a FaceTime system.
This system determines who you can FaceTime with and who just simply doesn't have it.
That's how I assume the iPhone to iPhone will work.
As for knowing the other person is in a Wifi area, I assume the FaceTime button would just stay dimmed and you wouldn't even be able to initiate.
SO. You get your brand new iPhone 4.
The first thing you need to do is activate it.
If you buy in-store, this will be done for you.
The moment the iPhone 4 is connected to iTunes or even at first initial boot-up, the necessary components are sent to a FaceTime system.
This system determines who you can FaceTime with and who just simply doesn't have it.
That's how I assume the iPhone to iPhone will work.
As for knowing the other person is in a Wifi area, I assume the FaceTime button would just stay dimmed and you wouldn't even be able to initiate.
The moment you activate your iPhone 4, Apple servers read this:
iTunes account mloffa@gmail.com has just bought a FaceTime capable device (serial number XXXXYYYYAAAABBB); he is ready to be "FaceTimed" when said device XXXXXYYYYAAAABBB connects to our servers, which it will automatically try to do everytime it's on WIFI. (and it's about TRYING, because not all wifi routers are connected to the internet)
So that's what's MARKED as facetime capable in Apple System: your itunes account and the device serial number. Maybe the phone number if a microsim is inserted during the activation, but that wouldn't work for iPods Touch.
But then there's no way for that "central list" of capable itunesUsers+iDevicesSerialNumbers to be "cross matched" with people's (your friends') address books.
very good points. im guessing you will have to call them first. both iphones notify eachother of being facetime compatible from then on out you can activate facetime directly from the phonebook. im sure there is a big long string unique to each phone but the user will never see it the phones just notify eachother of it during the first call.
But it doesn't have to be incorporated with other people's address books?
Using FaceTime is not a call- no minutes. It has nothing to do with AT&T or your address book.
Every time you make a call and click the FaceTime button, the call is put on hold and the "FaceTime server" comes into play.
It will then determine if both users are capable based on the serial/device info/etc.
(This is obviously me guess, I really have no idea..)
1) it DOESN'T have to, IF we imagine a "real time handshaking" based on the the PHONE CALL; but that would mean that:
- iPod Touch cannot facetime
- you have to spend money on the first seconds of a real phone call, imagine doing that for international calls. And that's a pity, a waste, because FaceTime just need a free WIFI connection. Why force you to pay the first seconds of a call?
2) it DOES have to, IF you want to START a FaceTime call without starting a phone call and IF you want the iPods Touch to be part of the game. ("TENS of millions of Facetime devices in 2010").
Or it uses the Cell network for voice and WiFi Internet access for the video. Kinda of like using the knocking video app. This app doesn't have voice, but if you place the call first then knock a person, you will have a video voice call that uses the cell for voice and internet for video.
Except FaceTime's supposed to be "no setup required", whereas Knocking works like this:
Knocking description said:
That's what we're arguing about. The need of setting up an account.
Otherwise, it would be DEAD SIMPLE understanding FaceTime. If, say, there was a FaceTime Account to setup, give to friends and search.
But Steve told us there is not. "No need to type in anything" he said. That's why we're here scratching heads.
I don't want to get back into this because it's way too much to think about BUT
The iPhone is the account. And your "buddy list" is anyone in Apple's servers who has an iPhone 4.