Facetime and talk minutes

[mrblack927]

gainly: Okay, first of all, calm down. No need to get all worked up about it .

The iPhone 4's facetime feature will probably work exactly as advertised, no setup required. How? A database of FT-compatible devices based on phone number. Every FT-capable device has a phone number, and that's a perfectly reasonable unique identifier.

A couple things to note:
1) No setup required means no additional work needs to be done. It is assumed that you already have your friends' phone numbers in your address book. Therefore, it doesn't matter what you NAME the contact, just that the phone number is correct. So unless you're adding a new contact, there really is nothing that you have to TYPE in advance. aka. Zero-setup.

2) No one ever said the iPod touch or iPad or anything else was getting Facetime. Until we hear otherwise, iPhone 4s are the only FT-capable devices in existence. So again, phone numbers are a perfectly reasonable unique identifier for this purpose.

I don't know why you're getting so worked up about it. Does it really matter how it's being done on the back-end? Nothing about it seems "impossible" to me.

 

[Revelation78]

gainly: Okay, first of all, calm down. No need to get all worked up about it .

The iPhone 4's facetime feature will probably work exactly as advertised, no setup required. How? A database of FT-compatible devices based on phone number. Every FT-capable device has a phone number, and that's a perfectly reasonable unique identifier.

A couple things to note:
1) No setup required means no additional work needs to be done. It is assumed that you already have your friends' phone numbers in your address book. Therefore, it doesn't matter what you NAME the contact, just that the phone number is correct. So unless you're adding a new contact, there really is nothing that you have to TYPE in advance. aka. Zero-setup.

2) No one ever said the iPod touch or iPad or anything else was getting Facetime. Until we hear otherwise, iPhone 4s are the only FT-capable devices in existence. So again, phone numbers are a perfectly reasonable unique identifier for this purpose.

I don't know why you're getting so worked up about it. Does it really matter how it's being done on the back-end? Nothing about it seems "impossible" to me.

You're incorrect sir! Apple said that they will sell 10s of millions of FaceTime DEVICES by the end of this year, not 10s of millions of iPhones. SJ was deliberate with his verbiage.

 

[diamond.g]

I still think that for no setup or ids or any of that (just watch the keynote) phone number is the most logical choice. If that is true, then I wonder if they will add data to the iPod Touch much like the iPad WiFi+3G. Every iPad with 3G has a phone number. It seems obvious with the iPad not getting 4.0 this month that there is probably some update that they are not wanting us to know about...

 

[mrblack927]

You're incorrect sir! Apple said that they will sell 10s of millions of FaceTime DEVICES by the end of this year, not 10s of millions of iPhones. SJ was deliberate with his verbiage.

Yes, he was deliberate with his verbiage. He didn't say iPod Touch devices. They could release a new phone before the end of the year for all you know. We simply don't know, and you can't argue based on speculation. So until we hear otherwise, we must assume he mean's 10s of millions of iPhone 4s, because that's the only device that supports Facetime.

 

[Revelation78]

Yes, he was deliberate with his verbiage. He didn't say iPod Touch devices. They could release a new phone before the end of the year for all you know. We simply don't know, and you can't argue based on speculation. So until we hear otherwise, we must assume he mean's 10s of millions of iPhone 4s.

He don't have to assume he meant iPhone 4's; if he meant iPhone 4's he would have said that instead of devices. If he had said iPod Tiuch Devices then the iPhone wouldn't even have FaceTime. Go back an re-read what you typed, you don't make sense and you failed to make a valid point.

 

[mrblack927]

He don't have to assume he meant iPhone 4's; if he meant iPhone 4's he would have said that instead of devices. If he had said iPod Tiuch Devices then the iPhone wouldn't even have FaceTime. Go back an re-read what you typed, you don't make sense and you failed to make a valid point.

Okay, no need for ad hominem attacks. I know what I said, you obviously didn't understand, so I'll try to be more clear:

Steve Jobs said FaceTime devices, which could mean just iPhone 4s, or iPhone 4s and other currently-unannounced products. All iPhone 4s are FT devices, but not all FT devices are iPhone 4s. That means that, if he's talking about just iPhone 4s, he could say either "10s of millions of iPhone 4s" or "10s of millions of Facetime devices". Both statements are completely valid. He most certainly is NOT required to say "iPhone 4s".

Have you ever heard the saying "all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares"? It's the same thing here. For any scenario where I'm talking about squares, I could replace "square" with "rectangle" and it would still be 100% correct.

I brought up the fact that he didn't say "iPod Touches" because its important to note that unless he says "iPod Touch" (or any other device for that matter), there's no reason to believe that "devices" refers to anything other than what we already know.

I'm sorry if I struck a nerve, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I'm trying to explain this as clearly as I can, but I'm not the best at explaining abstract concepts in words so please let me know if you need any further clarification.

 

[Revelation78]

Okay, no need for ad hominem attacks. I know what I said, you obviously didn't understand, so I'll try to be more clear:

Steve Jobs said FaceTime devices, which could mean just iPhone 4s, or iPhone 4s and other currently-unannounced products. All iPhone 4s are FT devices, but not all FT devices are iPhone 4s. That means that, if he's talking about just iPhone 4s, he could say either "10s of millions of iPhone 4s" or "10s of millions of Facetime devices". Both statements are completely valid. He most certainly is NOT required to say "iPhone 4s".

Have you ever heard the saying "all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares"? It's the same thing here. For any scenario where I'm talking about squares, I could replace "square" with "rectangle" and it would still be 100% correct.

I brought up the fact that he didn't say "iPod Touches" because its important to note that unless he says "iPod Touch" (or any other device for that matter), there's no reason to believe that "devices" refers to anything other than what we already know.

I'm sorry if I struck a nerve, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I'm trying to explain this as clearly as I can, but I'm not the best at explaining abstract concepts in words so please let me know if you need any further clarification.

No, I unsterstood where you were going from the beginning. SJ would not have said iPod Touches this soon before they would be ready to release, hence why he said FaceTime devices. Apple is deliberate in their verbiage, that's why SJ didn't say iPhone 4s.

Right now the requirements are iPhone 4 to iPhone 4; if there weren't other FaceTime devices in the works other than iPhone 4s he would have said iPhone 4 instead of devices. Apple also will not sell 10s of millions of iPhones by the end of this year...

 

[mrblack927]

I agree, however;

if there weren't other FaceTime devices in the works other than iPhone 4s he would have said iPhone 4 instead of devices.

and

Apple also will not sell 10s of millions of iPhones by the end of this year...

Neither of those things are facts. They are speculation.

For example, what if Apple announced in September that the iPhone is available on all major US carriers? They could easily sell >20m devices by the end of the year. And Steve Jobs could have said "devices" instead of "iPhone 4s" for marketing reasons.

Remember, my original comment wasn't directed towards you, it was meant for that guy who was having a fit over the weekend complaining about how apple "cannot possibly implement zero-setup Facetime with phone numbers because it has to work for iPod Touches as well". I was just reminding him that he can't complain about something that has never even been confirmed to be real. Will the iPod touch get Facetime? Perhaps. But there's no proof of that right now. So, as of right now, the only question that has to be answered is "How will Apple implement Facetime for iPhone 4s", and the answer is "Phone Numbers".

 

[jclardy]

I think that FaceTime takes over the phone call, so you won't be using the cell tower after initiated. I could be wrong though.

My guess is once FaceTime shows up in apps like iChat or Skype AT&T will count video against your minutes even though it is over WiFi. I mean, AT&T charges extra for tethering on a limited data plan, minutes used on you own wifi with a microcell that you have to purchase, they still have the most expensive text messaging of the other carriers....

Anything to rip off their iPhone customers while they still have them.

 

[Nevasleep]

I could see it working like...

You have your buddy's phone number stored as a contact.
You select facetime.
Then it 'calls' your buddy via the mobile network, and swaps IP address etc.
Then starts up connection via wifi and hangs up the call. -- In 2 to 5 seconds.

 

[iMoo]

I'm pretty sure that Mr Jobs said he was going to try and make this industry standard. Industry standard means the mobile industry as a whole.
He never mentioned that this would be an Apple product and that you had to have an apple product for Face Time.

To me that would mean (if Apple gets cuts or sells the product to other companies i'm unsure) that they hope that by starting this on Apple other companies would start the use of the same tecnology created by Apple.
So in the future you could initiate a Face Time call between say your iPhone and your friends NOKIA or Samsung Phone. They never said that this was Apple only!

At the moment (in the UK anyhow) with the increased volume of customers having smartphones and more data driven apps/features carriers are seeing a strain on their networks, which is prob why companies are now adding caps to their data allowance (even O2 who were unlimited subject to fair usage have scrapped unlimmited for a notable cap)
By Apple offering to roll this out initially over WIFI only, this not only offers the best experiance for connection issues in regards to network availability but also will in the meantime reduce some potential strain of video being used over networks. I say this as already networks are making statments that the use of things like streaming music/youtube/tv is eating away at their strained networks.

I think that (and this is just my thought) the initial call will be charged at standard rate, weather this be a free call or international call, and then as you hit the face time and it is accepted, it will switch to video and a free service.

They said that when issues with operating companies can be worked on that they will eventually roll this out over 3G. By this time i think networks will charge for this and have plans to accomidate this.

How they go about this i am unsure and i think thier could be several approches good and bad:-

1) Have a totally seperate part to contract which states video call say so many mins free then quite a large charge per min.

2) Whichever phones are connected with 3G start to use up their data allowance whilst connected to Video call

3) If two phones are over WIFI the phone that initiated the call would be charged a one time connection fee to connect to the other phone, from then on the video call is free. The connection fee may be split between both companies

All of the above is just my thoughts and am happy to hear your views, but in order for Apple to make this industry standard then Phone companies won't want to loose money by people opting for free WIFI Face Time calls as more devices take this onboard. On the flip side to this, providing companies don't get too gready then more and more would also use this over 3G too as everyone (or a large portion) would be available for Face Time calls no matter where they are.
This may be years to come, but as long as the companies can find some structure as to make money for themselves, but not rip the consumer off, then this is very viable to become an industry standard.

That's my thoughts, thanks if you got this far and please let me know if you agree/dissagree with anything i have said, after all this is just my thoughts,

iMOO

P.s. As an afterthought, with the amount of users that use Skype and as to not compete, maybe this will have some sort of extension or plugin with Skype. So if you are at your PC or someone at theirs, then they could both seamlessly connect to one another using Face Time option. For Face Time to be incorperated like this would be good to see as it would then truely be an industry standard, rather than a direct competition to other programmes like Skype.

This time i'm gone for this post, bye now,

iMoo ;0)

 

[Revelation78]

I agree, however;

and


Neither of those things are facts. They are speculation.

For example, what if Apple announced in September that the iPhone is available on all major US carriers? They could easily sell >20m devices by the end of the year. And Steve Jobs could have said "devices" instead of "iPhone 4s" for marketing reasons.

Remember, my original comment wasn't directed towards you, it was meant for that guy who was having a fit over the weekend complaining about how apple "cannot possibly implement zero-setup Facetime with phone numbers because it has to work for iPod Touches as well". I was just reminding him that he can't complain about something that has never even been confirmed to be real. Will the iPod touch get Facetime? Perhaps. But there's no proof of that right now. So, as of right now, the only question that has to be answered is "How will Apple implement Facetime for iPhone 4s", and the answer is "Phone Numbers".

Don't get me wrong, you could very well be right. Even if the iPhone was available on more carriers, it would still be called iPhone 4. Also the requirements state iPhone 4 to iPhone 4 and WiFi, it makes no mention of a cellular connection; this leads me to believe it won't be based off of a phone number to designate which devices support FaceTime.

If the only devices that support FaceTime end up being cellular connected devices, then you will most likely be dead on. We'll find out soon enough, the debate has been fun.

 

[mrblack927]

Don't get me wrong, you could very well be right. Even if the iPhone was available on more carriers, it would still be called iPhone 4. Also the requirements state iPhone 4 to iPhone 4 and WiFi, it makes no mention of a cellular connection; this leads me to believe it won't be based off of a phone number to designate which devices support FaceTime.

If the only devices that support FaceTime end up being cellular connected devices, then you will most likely be dead on. We'll find out soon enough, the debate has been fun.

Yeah, I agree it's very strange. Believe me, I hope they aren't basing it on phone numbers. I was pulling for an iChat app with support for iPhone 4-to-computer video chats. Unfortunately, Apple could just as easily decide that they want this to be a "phone feature". Kind of like text messages... its just a simple text (data) transfer, but you need a phone number to do it.

And yes, it's been fun . See you on the 24th.