facetime is pointless because.....

[truciet]

You guys know that FaceTime App is WiFi only. However, it's OPEN API. Which means Skype, AIM, ANYONE can write a video chat app...

3G video chat will be here within a month or 2 soon if not sooner...

Skype has already expressed interest in adding video chat...

 

[andiwm2003]

i do understand that aspect of it, but its just not like people cant video chat without an iphone 4, you can get cheap webcams anywhere now.

you are missing his main point. of course Facetime is great for some people and you gave a great example of your situation.

However the business success of Facetime as a standard depends on a broad user base. With the current limitations mentioned by the OP Facetime will fail.

I expect Skype or similar services to take that market and become the videochat of choice as long as you are limited to WiFi because skype has a huge userbase already and it is not limited to Macs or iPhones.

Again your situation shows that for some it is a success but as a whole it might still fail.

 

[WoodNUFC]

I dk why you weren't video chatting with your gf already, that seems like a pretty standard thing for long distance relationships these days. For those who want to be limited to wifi and iphone to iphone video chatting, then this is a viable solution. Though that also limits the amount of communication you can have. Fact is there are better mobile options out right now that don't inhibit you at all...

We've done the video chat thing, and being tied to a computer sucks. If I'm out, and I want to talk to my gf I would have to either A) carry a laptop with me to use skype, or B) not go out so I can sit at home with my computer and webcam.

Since we are both upgrading to the iPhone 4 it will be dead easy to communicate with her. Now all i have to do is find a wifi hotspot and call her. It may not be the best option for others out there, but for me it's perfect.

 

[Cougarcat]

No, video chatting isn't really influencing my decision at all. i rarely video chat on the computer and I'll probably only use it on a phone every once in a while. It's just another example of how Apple limits the overall utility of their products. And some people may say it's AT&T, not Apple. Well it's Apple's business model, they chose AT&T and whatever negatives come with it.

It's *all* of the carriers. FaceTime is a new open protocol, and they have to work with all the carriers so that it will work properly over their 3G networks. Harping about Apple being too restrictive can be valid, but this is just a silly example.

I think it is a bit restrictive that you can't use it with your Mac yet, but I imagine Apple is working on an iChat update. And if not, it's an open API, so skype, fring, AIM, etc. will be able to use it.

If there's already a phone just as good, if not better, than their new phone, how can they possibly wait a year and watch the competition pass them by?

It takes time to design a good phone. They've been working on this one for 18 months, 6 months prior to the release of the 3GS.

 

[austinjw]

It's *all* of the carriers. FaceTime is a new open protocol, and they have to work with all the carriers so that it will work properly over their 3G networks. Harping about Apple being too restrictive can be valid, but this is just a silly example.

I think it is a bit restrictive that you can't use it with your Mac yet, but I imagine Apple is working on an iChat update. And if not, it's an open API, so skype, fring, AIM, etc. will be able to use it.



It takes time to design a good phone. They've been working on this one for 18 months, 6 months prior to the release of the 3GS.

what do you mean it's all the carriers? You can video chat on sprint right now over 3g, no issues whatsoever. It's most likely AT&T's crappy network restricting the iphone's ability to video chat over 3g. If the iphone was on sprint, then you would be able to video chat right now. I feel like that's a completely valid example of Apple's restrictiveness. If they were open, and allowed more carries to sell the phone, then you wouldn't be stuck on wifi only video chatting.

And just because they've been designing for a while doesn't make it the best phone out there. Before you really couldn't argue that there were phones as good as or better than the Iphone. Now there are 3 or 4 phones that are out right now that are arguably better. Imagine how much better phones could possibly be in 6 months.

 

[austinjw]

We've done the video chat thing, and being tied to a computer sucks. If I'm out, and I want to talk to my gf I would have to either A) carry a laptop with me to use skype, or B) not go out so I can sit at home with my computer and webcam.

Since we are both upgrading to the iPhone 4 it will be dead easy to communicate with her. Now all i have to do is find a wifi hotspot and call her. It may not be the best option for others out there, but for me it's perfect.

Well i'm glad it'll work out for you two. I've been in a long distance relationship before, and they're hard. The new iphone, and mobile video chatting in general, will be great for situations like that. As long as phone carriers here allow you to video chat without charging you beyond your data plan, I feel like it could become decently popular in the states.

 

[WoodNUFC]

Well i'm glad it'll work out for you two. I've been in a long distance relationship before, and they're hard. The new iphone, and mobile video chatting in general, will be great for situations like that. As long as phone carriers here allow you to video chat without charging you beyond your data plan, I feel like it could become decently popular in the states.

thanks. It has been hard. Been a couple for 17 months, 8 of which were spent 4,000 miles apart. Come September we'll have to spend 3 months apart, and after the new year, it will likely be another 3. It's difficult, but worth it

 

[Cougarcat]

what do you mean it's all the carriers? You can video chat on sprint right now over 3g, no issues whatsoever. It's most likely AT&T's crappy network restricting the iphone's ability to video chat over 3g.

I mean that no carriers anywhere in the world will support FaceTime this year, no matter how crappy or not crappy they may be. It's a new protocol that Apple has to work with the carriers to get up and running. If the iPhone were on Sprint today, FaceTime still wouldn't work on 3G.

And just because they've been designing for a while doesn't make it the best phone out there.

I never said it was the best phone out there. I was just saying that development cycles take time. If there are much better phones six months from now, it's not like Apple would be able to respond immediately. They will have only just gotten started on the iPhone 5.

Although, I don't think Apple has anything to worry about, even if the iPhone 4 remains unchanged for 2 years with only a speed and space bump. Many phones may rival or beat the iPhone in some specs, but it's the design and software that makes it.

 

[vanmacguy]

Has no one seen UStream for iPhone? It supplies a pretty decent video stream over 3G.

Facetime will eventually work over 3G and given the likes of UStream, it'll work well. Apple has probably done a lot of work with compression.

Disclaimer: I didn't read all the responses to this original rant about Facetime, so apologies if someone already made this point.

 

[bradl]

Based on your previous posts, it seems that you live in America. If that's the case, then the article you quoted is completely irrelevant. I'm pretty sure only one phone, the Evo, currently uses video chat here and the ability to use it over 3g/4g is included in your data plan. No extra costs for video chat minutes. If you buy the phone, then you're able to video chat whenever and wherever you want.

Yes, I live in the US. I have also lived in France and Australia. I travel to Canada occasionally, and will be headed back overseas soon (Australia, New Zealand, UK, Brazil, and Bora Bora). You know.. places that actually use GSM, and not a dead piece of tech like CDMA?

So the article I posted is quite relevant, as other carriers, and not just the ones that you limit yourself to by assuming I will only be in the US, charge per minute for features like this. All the more reason why this and WiFi makes more sense. Perhaps when you head overseas and see what there is outside the US, you'll get a greater appreciation of it.

And no, I'm not a parent, but if it's so important for your parents to see your son, then why make them wait another 2 weeks? You can buy a webcam for less than 20 bucks right now and your dad could see your son in less than an hour. I'm not saying that apple isn't providing a solution for your problem, all I'm saying is that if the problem was so dire, then you would've solved it already with any number of much better solutions out there right now. Yea the new iphone will give you added mobility, but it's still very restricted. The evo, out right now, will give you the added mobility without any restrictions at all. And, like I said before, a webcam attached to a computer will give you the best overall video quality. I just fail to see how the new iphone provides a better experience than anything else out right now. I mean that's just my opinion, obviously you disagree though.

If the problem were dire, we'd be on a plane right now. But what you seem to have trouble with is that this gives someone mobility to see their parents and friends while they are talking to them. You aren't stuck with what you think they are wearing or look like while you're tlaking to them; you can actually SEE them. Obviously when you become a parent, you will understand it, but that means a LOT to people. And something like this makes it that much easier, while not limiting you to the peripheral range of a webcam, nor the length of its USB cable.

what do you mean it's all the carriers? You can video chat on sprint right now over 3g, no issues whatsoever. It's most likely AT&T's crappy network restricting the iphone's ability to video chat over 3g. If the iphone was on sprint, then you would be able to video chat right now. I feel like that's a completely valid example of Apple's restrictiveness. If they were open, and allowed more carries to sell the phone, then you wouldn't be stuck on wifi only video chatting.

Absolutely wrong here. But I'll bite: From http://shop.sprint.com/en/stores/popups/simply_everything_popup.shtml

Sprint Premier qualifying plan: This plan qualifies you for perks like upgrade benefits beginning at 12 months of service for the primary line, anniversary gifts, six-month plan check-ups, and "just because" extras. Learn more at sprint.com/premier.
GPS: Unlimited maps, turn-by-turn directions and more with Sprint Navigation for Sprint and PowerSource phones, or TeleNav™ for Nextel phones. GPS reliability varies by environment.
Sprint Mobile Email: Access multiple personal email accounts in a single application on featured phones. Providers include: AOL, Windows Live (including MSN/Hotmail), Yahoo! and Gmail.
Sprint Mobile Email Work: Access to corporate email on feature phones (non PDA devices) through Outlook Web Access (OWA) or a desktop redirector. If your company uses Lotus Notes Domino, you can obtain access to that email on your phone through redirector software that can be downloaded and then direct mailed to your phone.
Receive corporate email on Microsoft ExchangeSM 2000, 2003 and 2007 and on Lotus NotesSM Domino versions 6.0, 6.5 and 7.0 through a desktop redirector software.
BlackBerry® Internet Service (BIS): Manage up to 10 different accounts with a simple three-click email setup, and IM on the go with Yahoo!® Messenger, AIM®, Google Talk and BlackBerry Messenger. Please note: BlackBerry Enterprise Server (BES), which provides secure corporate email access and access to corporate IT administration, is not included and available for an additional cost.
Sprint Radio: Indulge yourself with even more radio channels in addition to discounts on wireless music downloads. View the full Sprint Radio line-up at www.sprint.com/radio.
Sprint TV: Watch shows, sports, news, movies and more, choose from: exclusive content, short clips or full-length episodes. For the full line-up, visit sprint.com/tvguide.
Messaging: Unlimited nationwide, text, picture and video messages to anyone on any network.
Direct Connect® and Group Connect®: Unlimited instant connections, nationwide and at the push of a button. Group Connect is limited to 20 participants on the same network.
Mobile to Mobile: Minutes may be used when directly dialing to or receiving calls from any other Sprint and Nextel devices (excludes roaming, voicemail, 411 and other indirect methods).
Call Forwarding: Unlimited forwarding of incoming calls to the phone number you specify.
Phone as modem or tethering: not included.
Corporate, government or special discounts: Do not apply. Includes promotions, special offers and invoice credits.

And that is their best plan for smartphones. Not a single thing listed there for Video Chat. Their meaning of video is to watch it on your phone, as it is streamed to you. In short, TV. Nothing more. The closest they get is IM with Yahoo or MSM.

Second, you are very limiting in your definition of 'open'. Like it was mentioned in the AppleInsider article, every protocol and specification Apple used for Facetime conforms to an open standard. Meaning, there is an RFC out for each one of those:


RFC 3984 - RTP Payload format for H.264/AVC
RFC 3261 - SIP protocol
RFC 3489 - Session Traversal Utilities for NAT
RFC 5766 - Traversal Using Relays around NAT
RFC 5245 - Interactive Connectivity Establishment
RFC 3550 - Transport Protocol for Real Time Applications
RFC 3711 - Secure Real-time Transport Protocol

All of these IETF standards, which ANY application on ANY carrier can use. That means ATT, Sprint, Verizon, Rogers, T-Mobile, US Cellular, Orange, O2, Optus, Telstra, Vodafone, Softbank, Metro PCS, BT, Telia, SingTel, Bell Canada, Fido, and others can develop apps that adopt those standards, and produce something to interact with this. Any other developer could do the same and interface with it. That means Skype, Fring, and others.

By comparison, speaking of Skype, Skype's protocol is completely closed. Microsoft, with your aforementioned webcams? WMV is closed. Real Networks? RTSP has been closed since 1996. Yet Apple needs to be more 'open'...

Keep in mind, that you're talking to a Unix Sysadmin here, who deals with these, and other IETF standards on a daily basis.

And just because they've been designing for a while doesn't make it the best phone out there. Before you really couldn't argue that there were phones as good as or better than the Iphone. Now there are 3 or 4 phones that are out right now that are arguably better. Imagine how much better phones could possibly be in 6 months.

So we wait for 6 more months to get something arguable 'better', instead of waiting for 2 more weeks to get something that would beat the others to the game? That logic doesn't make sense.. But as they say, to each his own...

BL.

 

[austinjw]

Yes, I live in the US. I have also lived in France and Australia. I travel to Canada occasionally, and will be headed back overseas soon (Australia, New Zealand, UK, Brazil, and Bora Bora). You know.. places that actually use GSM, and not a dead piece of tech like CDMA?

So the article I posted is quite relevant, as other carriers, and not just the ones that you limit yourself to by assuming I will only be in the US, charge per minute for features like this. All the more reason why this and WiFi makes more sense. Perhaps when you head overseas and see what there is outside the US, you'll get a greater appreciation of it.



If the problem were dire, we'd be on a plane right now. But what you seem to have trouble with is that this gives someone mobility to see their parents and friends while they are talking to them. You aren't stuck with what you think they are wearing or look like while you're tlaking to them; you can actually SEE them. Obviously when you become a parent, you will understand it, but that means a LOT to people. And something like this makes it that much easier, while not limiting you to the peripheral range of a webcam, nor the length of its USB cable.




Absolutely wrong here. But I'll bite: From http://shop.sprint.com/en/stores/popups/simply_everything_popup.shtml



And that is their best plan for smartphones. Not a single thing listed there for Video Chat. Their meaning of video is to watch it on your phone, as it is streamed to you. In short, TV. Nothing more. The closest they get is IM with Yahoo or MSM.

Second, you are very limiting in your definition of 'open'. Like it was mentioned in the AppleInsider article, every protocol and specification Apple used for Facetime conforms to an open standard. Meaning, there is an RFC out for each one of those:


RFC 3984 - RTP Payload format for H.264/AVC
RFC 3261 - SIP protocol
RFC 3489 - Session Traversal Utilities for NAT
RFC 5766 - Traversal Using Relays around NAT
RFC 5245 - Interactive Connectivity Establishment
RFC 3550 - Transport Protocol for Real Time Applications
RFC 3711 - Secure Real-time Transport Protocol

All of these IETF standards, which ANY application on ANY carrier can use. That means ATT, Sprint, Verizon, Rogers, T-Mobile, US Cellular, Orange, O2, Optus, Telstra, Vodafone, Softbank, Metro PCS, BT, Telia, SingTel, Bell Canada, Fido, and others can develop apps that adopt those standards, and produce something to interact with this. Any other developer could do the same and interface with it. That means Skype, Fring, and others.

By comparison, speaking of Skype, Skype's protocol is completely closed. Microsoft, with your aforementioned webcams? WMV is closed. Real Networks? RTSP has been closed since 1996. Yet Apple needs to be more 'open'...

Keep in mind, that you're talking to a Unix Sysadmin here, who deals with these, and other IETF standards on a daily basis.



So we wait for 6 more months to get something arguable 'better', instead of waiting for 2 more weeks to get something that would beat the others to the game? That logic doesn't make sense.. But as they say, to each his own...

BL.

Dude, you can video chat right now on sprint's network using Qik or Skype via Fring. There are videos of it all over youtube if you don't believe me. Use it on 3g/4g or wifi, so it does everything Facetime can do and more.

And I understand that CDMA doesn't work overseas, I'm actually overseas right now and can't use my Sprint phone, it sucks. But if I was really concerned about it, I would just buy one of their world phones. Maybe if AT&T wasn't a dead technology in major cities, I'd give them a try. But switching to a subpar network right now just so I can use my phone on the occasional overseas trip would be silly. Truth is, it is still prohibitively expensive for most people to actually use their cell phones overseas for anything besides an emergency, unless it's covered by their employer. If I wanted to video chat while i was here, I'd just use wifi as well. Just because I can do it over 3g doesn't mean wifi wouldn't work too, they're not mutually exclusive.

And i wasn't saying wait six months for something as good, those phones are out right now. I was saying in 6 months apple will likely be truly surpassed in the phone market for the first time since the iphone came out. Seems perfectly logical to me. The only logic that doesn't make sense to me is waiting another 2 weeks for a phone that delivers severely hampered video chat capabilities. I'm sure the phone will work well for your father to be able to see his grandson, but it's far from the best option out right now, especially considering it actually isn't out yet.

 

[austinjw]

I mean that no carriers anywhere in the world will support FaceTime this year, no matter how crappy or not crappy they may be. It's a new protocol that Apple has to work with the carriers to get up and running. If the iPhone were on Sprint today, FaceTime still wouldn't work on 3G.



I never said it was the best phone out there. I was just saying that development cycles take time. If there are much better phones six months from now, it's not like Apple would be able to respond immediately. They will have only just gotten started on the iPhone 5.

Although, I don't think Apple has anything to worry about, even if the iPhone 4 remains unchanged for 2 years with only a speed and space bump. Many phones may rival or beat the iPhone in some specs, but it's the design and software that makes it.

Lol, how can you say that? Qik was a new protocol, yet they worked together with sprint and htc to make it work from day one. Either Apple doesn't want work with AT&T, severely doubt that, or AT&T is trying to find a way to charge for it, or they know their network can't handle it. Neither of us can say with certainty that the iPhone would be hampered like this on other networks, but the recent launch of the Evo points to sprint being a little more willing to allow phones to actually work on their network.

 

[mysticbluebmw]

Lol, how can you say that? Qik was a new protocol, yet they worked together with sprint and htc to make it work from day one. Either Apple doesn't want work with AT&T, severely doubt that, or AT&T is trying to find a way to charge for it, or they know their network can't handle it. Neither of us can say with certainty that the iPhone would be hampered like this on other networks, but the recent launch of the Evo points to sprint being a little more willing to allow phones to actually work on their network.

This is just pointless bickering. All you can do is guess as to the reason why it's not on 3G and then do some AT&T bashing based on your alleged supposition. You can't produce a cogent argument because you have NO facts to back up your claims.

There will be millions of iPhone 4's soon enough, and with many, many more people wanting to video chat because of the shear ease of it in iOS4, it will FAR outnumber the quantity of people doing this on Sprint. I don't know how many times this has to be said 'there is no magical unlimited bandwidth fairy'. AT&T, as will other carriers in the near future must prepare for these bandwidth eating technological advancements. Yes, video chat is nothing new, but the way it is implemented in iOS4 IS new, and it will be en mass. There may even be an iPhone 5 before things are sorted properly. I'd rather have it over wi-fi than not at all, and make us wait while the carriers work to implement the protocols into their network as efficiently as possible. It WILL come.

 

[DIABLOW]

Sorry for a noob question. Can we use the cam to cam over with skype with iPhone 4?

 

[Compile 'em all]

Sorry for a noob question. Can we use the cam to cam over with skype with iPhone 4?

If Apple has APIs for developers to access the front facing camera AND Skype releases an update to use these APIs, then yes. However, with the speed Skype are doing things, I won't expect anything from them before 2011.

 

[austinjw]

This is just pointless bickering. All you can do is guess as to the reason why it's not on 3G and then do some AT&T bashing based on your alleged supposition. You can't produce a cogent argument because you have NO facts to back up your claims.

There will be millions of iPhone 4's soon enough, and with many, many more people wanting to video chat because of the shear ease of it in iOS4, it will FAR outnumber the quantity of people doing this on Sprint. I don't know how many times this has to be said 'there is no magical unlimited bandwidth fairy'. AT&T, as will other carriers in the near future must prepare for these bandwidth eating technological advancements. Yes, video chat is nothing new, but the way it is implemented in iOS4 IS new, and it will be en mass. There may even be an iPhone 5 before things are sorted properly. I'd rather have it over wi-fi than not at all, and make us wait while the carriers work to implement the protocols into their network as efficiently as possible. It WILL come.

You start by telling me that I can't reason that AT&T is the cause for the lack of vid chat over 3g, then you go and assume the same thing saying that they don't have enough bandwith to support it. Of course I can't prove to 100% certainty that it's AT&T's fault, but based on past evidence, it's pretty definitely beyond a reasonable doubt. AT&T's network isn't developed enough to support the 3g service it does have in major cities and it doesn't even have 3g in a large portion of the country. If they can't support data coverage in cities right now, then they obviously can't handle increased bandwith with video chat. I mean you can ignore AT&T's past performance and say there's some other reason that is largely responsible for the lack of 3g video chat, but that would require you to ignore a lot of facts. It will come, but probably not until the iPhone goes to a different carrier or AT&t finds some way to rip people off for it, like the new data plans. The iphone really is too nice of a phone to be partnered with such a crappy company. Usually apple's restrictive approach enhances the end user experience, but this is far from the case here.

 

[hellomoto4]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but:

3G Unrestrictor, anyone?

 

[Deako]

Has anyone considered the fact that you could use a MiFi router on 3G and have a permanent WiFi connection on your iPhone to always be able to make video calls?

 

[msavwah]

To tell you the truth, with the new att data caps, I'm glad FaceTime won't work on 3G. I also won't care for uploading those HD vids over 3G either.

People would be complaining about being gouged by AT&T on the data plans.

This probably wouldn't be an issue if Apple would just spread the damn load across other carriers, that's what really continues to bum me out about the iPhone.

 

[Bdubb]

Thank you very much. I wouldn't have truly realized the importance of a feature like this if I didn't have a child myself. Something like this would go a long way for someone like, say, grandparents who couldn't make it to see their grandchild or great-grandchild..

Or better yet, someone in the military serving half way around the world, and getting the chance to literally see everyone in their family while saying hi to them on Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Yet the OP thinks that Facetime would be pointless...

BL.

BL.[/QUOTE]

Your blind optimism and sheer excitement about this feature come June 24-25 is pretty Naive, I agree with the post before you, #24. It's definitively a good feature but it's nowhere near where it should be at launch. And probably wont really be useful until said options and features come into play.

By all means if you are buying an iPhone 4 for yourself, one for your father, for your bro overseas and one for your wife etc. than I guess you got your corners covered, but not everybody is going to do that come June 24. Most likely people will just get an iPhone 4 for themselves and most likely their closest friends or loved ones wont...

Laptops and cameras on computers have been around for ages, people have been IMing , Skype video calling for ages...Not everyone's going to switch to this method to remotely Video chat with each other once iPhone 4 launches, You're assumption that everyone is gonna have an iPhone 4 this year and use this feature is equally ridiculous and as naive ( if not more) than blaming the OP's assumption of everyone having laptop's or iphone 3Gs etc. Don't you think? At least those devices have been around for years.

Just many posts before me stated (including the OP) if Facetime was compatible with iChat and other Pc based video chat software right out of the box, then we really got a gem here, but that's not the case is it?

I have no doubt this thing will eventually go on 3G and go multi-platform/ multi-device (hopefully not just idevices) but I guarantee you for the most of the calendar year 2010. only (bulk purchasing) people like you and their family will make full use of this feature...hell if you really want your point to be valid, ship me an iphone 4 too come last week of June, then I will totally agree with your optimism, otherwise just shuuuuuuuud up!

 

[ValenR]

lol what is wrong with you guys ?

Just because it's perfect for him doesn't mean it's perfect for you guys. Yet.
As aforementioned, the iPhone 4 will surely get apps (god knows when) or features that will make full use of the camera over any network that supports video chat.
But yes, I also think that FaceTime should be more...open to other devices right at the launch. But it still doesn't make FaceTime pointless.

Just remember guys, what applies to you might not apply to someone else.

 

[twowinns]

My main hope is face time goes onto the apple tv and into iChat. My bigger hope is still iChat on the iPhone, but I don't know if that'll work out.

That's my wish, too. Most of my family has a Mac with iChat, but very few of them will upgrade to the iPhone 4 any time soon. It would be nice though to have a video conference from my phone to their computer.

 

[InsightsIE]

Wow people ever hear of MIFIs. Guess what i'm doing No really a Paygo iPhone with a MIFI but iPhone 4 on wifi could talk to skype, iChat, IM clients and everything just not iphones so I'm gonna rephrase your post:

To do video calls you will need

1 iPhone connected to a WIFI hotspot (Either a MIFI or a Wireless AdHoc connection on your mac Laptop connected to the internet some how)

And either another iPhone connected the same way or a Laptop, Net book or some sort of computer running Skype or ichat thats connected online. Because obviously Skype will soon support the camera over wifi and so will a IM client for aim like Fring.

And the possibilites out there like I go to lunch/shopping with my aunt occasionally so when my moms at home or in my grandparents or at a friends house with wifi and I'm in like the middle of Dublin in a Restaurant or shopping for stuff connected to my MIFI i can face time her and we can talk and show her stuff like what i'm eating, stuff i'm buying and if she wants me to pick her something up. I can point the camera at it and ask is that it?

 

[LegendKillerUK]

Some of the scenarios given are not gonna happen.

That one of the soldier chatting to his wife and kid back in America wouldn't happen as the troops aren't allowed their own phones when out.

The last scenario where a deaf man was 'talking' to his friend was very nice and perhaps a better use for getting everyone connected.

 

[bradl]

Dude, you can video chat right now on sprint's network using Qik or Skype via Fring. There are videos of it all over youtube if you don't believe me. Use it on 3g/4g or wifi, so it does everything Facetime can do and more.

Which this goes against your comment complaining about Apple's lack of "openness", though they are using open standards applying to not just smartphones or carriers, but any company out there that wants to use said standards. Qik? closed source. Skype? closed source. From the aforementioned AppleInsider article:

The iPhone (and the Mac desktop) already support video calls via Skype. Apple even added support for Skype to run in the background on iOS 4 and enabled Skype to run over the 3G network in addition to WiFi. So why is Apple introducing its own Skype competitor, and one that doesn't work over 3G?

For starters, Apple wanted a video calling app deeply integrated with iPhone 4 features, making full use of both cameras, being uncluttered and "one touch simple," and highly optimized to deliver great picture quality. It also wants to push open standards. Unlike iChat AV and FaceTime, Skype is not open standards-based. It uses an entirely closed, proprietary protocol owned by Skype.

Officially sanctioned client apps that Skype approves for use on its network are closed source. Skype solves the NAT problem and addresses message encryption security in an entirely opaque way. It essentially does not trust the router and uses its own mechanisms for getting through the network.

It claims to use an entirely decentralized system of connected users in a peer to peer network that shares the load between users, rather than being a point to point system like iChat, where a user calls another user to initiate a session. But none of this technology is open to peer review for security vetting nor openly implementable by others.

That makes Apple's alternative to Skype, both on the desktop with iChat and on iPhone 4 with FaceTime, a strategy much like its positioning of open MP3/AAC audio against Microsoft's proprietary Windows Media Audio, or its support for H.264 over WMV, or its support for HTML5 over Adobe Flash for interactive content. In every case, Apple was working to build open interoperability over creating dependance upon a closed standard pushed by one vendor.

Other iPhone VoIP apps, such as Fring, support both Skype's proprietary protocol and can support alternative open network protocols such as SIP. That makes it likely that Fring or other companies could actually create multiple-network VoIP apps that support both Skype and the standards-based FaceTime.

So.. How is it that Apple isn't 'open' enough?

And I understand that CDMA doesn't work overseas, I'm actually overseas right now and can't use my Sprint phone, it sucks. But if I was really concerned about it, I would just buy one of their world phones. Maybe if AT&T wasn't a dead technology in major cities, I'd give them a try. But switching to a subpar network right now just so I can use my phone on the occasional overseas trip would be silly. Truth is, it is still prohibitively expensive for most people to actually use their cell phones overseas for anything besides an emergency, unless it's covered by their employer. If I wanted to video chat while i was here, I'd just use wifi as well. Just because I can do it over 3g doesn't mean wifi wouldn't work too, they're not mutually exclusive.

Yet you're the one saying that my logic fails in the fact that I don't want, need or desire a webcam to chat to my father, especially if I may be 1500+ miles away from that webcam.

And you do realize that that same 'dead technology' you say ATT has is the same one that you could have used where you currently are overseas, right? Last I was in Sydney, you could by a sim card out of a vending machine, pop it into your GSM phone (since everything there is GSM), and boom, you have a working phone. Make some calls. Worked for me on my Nokia 7250i that I had at the time. Currently everywhere in the world, save China and possibly N. Korea, all use GSM, yet you say it's dead..

And i wasn't saying wait six months for something as good, those phones are out right now. I was saying in 6 months apple will likely be truly surpassed in the phone market for the first time since the iphone came out. Seems perfectly logical to me. The only logic that doesn't make sense to me is waiting another 2 weeks for a phone that delivers severely hampered video chat capabilities. I'm sure the phone will work well for your father to be able to see his grandson, but it's far from the best option out right now, especially considering it actually isn't out yet.

Of course it isn't the best option; the best is flying over there with him. But that isn't possible yet. But what this does get us is the ability to chat with him, over an openly supported standardized protocol (nothing against Skype, but read up on that protocol. you'll see how proprietary it is), while having the mobility to be anywhere there is WiFi.

In short, With Sprint, you're screwed once you leave the country, or you pay an exhoribant amount of money for that feature. I could just JB/unlock the iPhone and do this from anywhere on the planet with Facetime.

Can you do that with Sprint and an Evo? If so, you may just want to stick with them. It has nothing to do with ATT or Apple, but it's beginning to sound like you're happy with your Sprint phone and want another reason to stick with it over what the iPhone can offer. So by all means, please do.

BL.