Fair Labor Association Offers Initial Impressions on Foxconn Audit as iPads Used to Collect Survey Data

[justadoc]

work positions highly coveted

Most of the labour condition pundits have no sense of the working conditions from the worker perspective, only from their plush armchair perspective. Chinese workers line up, travel far, invest time and $ into getting jobs relating to Apple associated factories. The pay and working conditions are so far above their alternatives that you see analogous "work-boy" line ups for factory jobs to the "fan-boy" line ups for finished products! Will the conditions be perfect and will there be no illness, accidents or suicides? Of course not! Compare this to garment factory, sewer cleaning, cow tending, rice thrashing or some other alternative employment in China and you'll find negative worker impact rates far, far higher. Supporting Apple is the best way to improve the lives of at least a few thousand Chinese families.

 

[iforbes]

"Three separate Foxconn factories representing 300,000"?!? Is that a typo?

 

[PracticalMac]

Got to remember that most of these employees are uneducated talentless people. They don't have the skills to do much else. Is this really any different then working on any assembly line, anywhere in the world? Sorry but XYZ turning a screw on the production line for Ford or Chevy, is going to experience the same thing, boredom, and repetitive motion; alienation, I don't know.

Even uneducated talentless people have some aspirations and desires.
Something as simple as a pat on the back and job well done can go a long way. Their are many ways to keep a work force happy, and be even more productive then have them drone on.

I'm curious why everyone is singling out Apple when countless other technology companies use the same plant.

I'm also curious why when Apple actually does something while the other companies are still doing nothing, they STILL get criticized.

When people have horrible aim, it is easy to hit a huge target.


Maybe that's why William Tell used an Apple? (runs)

 

[TMay]

I seriously doubt it. It's like me showing up at Foxconn and saying I am here to visit your factory and look at the facilities you have for your workers. Even if I was with the Associated Press or whoever. Chances are I will not be allowed in and if I am I be be shown the areas that are designed for me to see where no one really lives or eats. They know when Apple is coming, Apple probably tells them well in advance and if not there are aways rumors or ways to find out. Just like there are rumors when new Apple products are getting ready to be released And as far as the workers go, these are extremely poor and very humble people, without the work they cannot feed their families, never mind giving their families a better future. They are not going to say anything negative about the working conditions or anything else while they are working there, I guarantee you! I find these audits rather useless.

-Mike

Do you seriously think that Apple doesn't have it's own people at Foxconn all the time? Would any company trust such a huge amount of it's future earning to a manufacturer without having it's own people on site?

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Market and competition are what they are. If you are a young company, or struggling financially, you have to do whatever you can to stay afloat, so long as it is legal, and that includes taking advantage of cheap labor and lenient regulations in China.

But when you're a company like Apple that sits on a huge pile of cash and you're not even using it to pay dividends to your shareholders, I think it's absolutely fair to be openly criticized and held accountable to a higher standard of ethics.

Even more so when said company communicates on and takes advantage of its hip and environment friendly reputation.

So sorry but I don't buy the argument "it's better than most other factories in China." By this reasoning, any complaint is invalid because you can always find something worst. It's like saying, "US workers shouldn't receive any benefit because some US citizens don't even have a job at all."

If a US worker works for a company that can afford better protection than other companies while still retaining comfortable profit margins, why shouldn't he get it? And why should it be any different in China?

Your missing the point. Their was a solar power co on the east cost that needed to stay afloat and moved all the jobs to china and still went out of business. This practice should be illegal.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

"Three separate Foxconn factories representing 300,000"?!? Is that a typo?

No. Foxconn has over 1m total employees in China -- not all work on Apple products, of course.

 

[Thunderhawks]

Just check this out and you'll know that this is the way factory work has always been and always will be.

The only way out is a better education and enough brain capacity and initiative to take charge of your own life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg2D714gn2w


Now my grandfather was a sailor
He blew in off the water
My father was a farmer
And I, his only daughter
Took up with a no good millworking man
From Massachusetts
Who dies from too much whiskey
And leaves me these three faces to feed

Millwork ain't easy
Millwork ain't hard
Millwork it ain't nothing
But an awful boring job
I'm waiting (on) a daydream
To take me through the morning
And put me in my coffee break
Where I can have a sandwich
And remember

Then it's me and my machine
For the rest of the morning
(and) the rest of the afternoon
And the rest of my life

Now my mind begins to wander
To the days back on the farm
I can see my father smiling at me
Swinging on his arm
I can hear my granddad's stories
Of the storms out on Lake Erie
Where vessels and cargos and fortunes
And sailors' lives were lost

(Yeah), but it's my life has been wasted
And I have been the fool
To let this manufacturer
Use my body for a tool
(I'll) ride home every evening
Staring at my hands
Swearing to my sorrow that a young girl
Ought to stand a better chance

So may I work your mills just as long as I am able
And never meet the man whose name is on the label

(it's still)me and my machine
For the rest of the morning
And the rest of the afternoon (and on and on and on...)
for the rest of my life

 

[brdeveloper]

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Labor_Association

WAAKE-UP! was also critical of the Fair Labor Association as much of its funding comes from organizations it monitors, creating a potential conflict of interest.

Everything is fine into Foxconn facilities. Just give some Ritalin to the empolyees.

 

[samcraig]

I love this line "with Foxconn employees being surveyed for the audit using iPads to record their responses. "

Because really - that undermines the audit results to me. What it says (and yes - this could be tin foil hat time - but I'm in PR - so indulge me) is that Apple put iPads in their hands and made sure the press wrote about them. And that could mean a lot of other things are being thrown under the carpet. I sincerely HOPE NOT. But that statement I found incredibly interesting.

 

[JonneyGee]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/9A405)

That's surprising, since some media sites with no first hand experience called it a hell hole.

Spending 3-4 weeks doing an audit is certainly more thorough (and more valid) than a media hit-and-run. Rational trumps passionate. Over weeks it's very difficult for a company to hide problems from on-site auditors. I certainly hope the previously reported abuses have been corrected or shown to be exaggerated or untrue.

Exactly. It's a thorough investigation, not just somebody canvassing the place for an hour. It also includes interviews with employees, so whether they know you're coming or not, the truth will come out in the interviews. Let's face it, haters: the facts simply aren't there to support Foxconn mistreating workers.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I love this line "with Foxconn employees being surveyed for the audit using iPads to record their responses. "

Because really - that undermines the audit results to me. What it says (and yes - this could be tin foil hat time - but I'm in PR - so indulge me) is that Apple put iPads in their hands and made sure the press wrote about them. And that could mean a lot of other things are being thrown under the carpet. I sincerely HOPE NOT. But that statement I found incredibly interesting.

Auret van Heerden is quite respected in the field. I don't smell a sell out here. You are in PR, so you know companies often make innocent situations look sinister because they don't have good PR advice. I suspect that is what is going on here -- they need a PR buffer. In most public companies no exec would be allowed to talk to the media before going through legal and PR.

FLA is likely trying to look "hip," with their spot in the sun not realizing they are betraying their cause even though they are conducting their survey as they have in the past. But ultimately it's an innocent situation. The iPad is a good, reliable device for scribing observations in the field, they just should be leaving that story for someone else to tell.

 

[Will do good]

No, I have never been to China. But going to China and actually living/working like these modern day slaves do are two very different things. I have traveled to many parts of the world and speak several languages fluently so I am well informed about what is going on around the world and where. Besides, don't expect to visit any Foxconn factory or any other Chinese factory and be allowed in or to really see the daily lives of these folks and where they live/eat and what their whole week is like. You visiting a factory in China is similar to me visiting a museum, you are not going to see much besides what everybody else sees!

-Mike

You called them modern day slaves, how are they slaves? Are they being held at gun point to stay to work? Do you know how often these workers jump from jobs to jobs? All the time! I've friends that's having a hard time keeping their employees. Slaves don't have that option.

Besides, if they have better options back home or else where they would go. This is the best option they have given the education and China as a country can offer them. It's so easy for you to judge the world based on your idealized American vision. I suggest you stop buying anything from Asia or the rest of the world where they don't live up to your standards.

 

[farmboy]

Exactly. Do a bit of reading on the subject and you may find that the companies keep two sets of books, threaten workers if they say anything unfavorable, etc. etc. I'm not implying that Foxconn does this, but there have been cases of it in the past. There's no doubt that the facilities are state of the art. They have to be to turn out high quality products in the huge numbers that Apple requires.

No, not "exactly" at all. If you've never been audited or performed an audit, you might think so; you'd be wrong. While unscheduled audits have their place, scheduled or short notice audits are quite effective. Basically auditors can go anywhere and look at anything, including your trash and locked file cabinets. Auditors are not easily deceived and the longer they are there the more they discover. The best approach is not to piss them off.

Keeping a second set of books does nothing in this case, as they are unlikely to keep alternate labor records because the burden of maintaining them is too great and you don't know what the auditors are going to ask for. Over 3-4 weeks the auditors will have plenty of time to explore all the facilities (including locked rooms, remote buildings), look at all the documents, and privately interview workers without oversight.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

You called them modern day slaves, how are they slaves? Are they being held at gun point to stay to work? Do you know how often these workers jump from jobs to jobs? All the time! I've friends that's having a hard time keeping their employees. Slaves don't have that option.

Besides, if they have better options back home or else where they would go. This is the best option they have given the education and China as a country can offer them. It's so easy for you to judge the world based on your idealized American vision. I suggest you stop buying anything from Asia or the rest of the world where they don't live up to your standards.

Problem is they don't teach teach history in high school anymore and most colleges don't require it either. Most people simply have no reference point to it's culture other than the incomplete information online. China is a complex country with a zig zag history but often portrayed one-dimensionally.

People here should pick up an Orville Schell book on China like Mandate from Heaven or China Reader for insight.

 

[mikefla]

Do you seriously think that Apple doesn't have it's own people at Foxconn all the time? Would any company trust such a huge amount of it's future earning to a manufacturer without having it's own people on site?

Do you seriously think these Apple insiders mingle with factory workers, eat and sleep in the same quarters and spend most of the year there like the factory workers? I doubt it very very much! Their job is to make sure the product keeps moving so that we can pay thousands of dollars for it and Apple can make Billions.

-Mike

 

[Shrink]

I couldn't care less about fair labor - I'm an American. Just give me my shiny, new Apple products.

I can only hope that this was intended as sarcasm.

Because if it was not, it ranks right up there with the most disgusting posts I've ever seen.

I'd really like to see the poster clarify his/her intentions.

 

[mikefla]

Problem is they don't teach teach history in high school anymore and most colleges don't require it either. Most people simply have no reference point to it's culture other than the incomplete information online. China is a complex country with a zig zag history but often portrayed one-dimensionally.

People here should pick up an Orville Schell book on China like Mandate from Heaven or China Reader for insight.

China is a communist country that oppresses it's people just like Cuba! People who work at these factories are for lack of better words "modern day slaves" and they work there because they have no better options, if they had better options they would not work locked away in a factory from their families far away for many months making peanuts. If their country/government offered them better options like we have in the US (as bad as things are here right now) they would not be slaves at these factories. I have deep respect for the Chinese people in general but no respect at all for those who explore them for their own self enrichment.

-Mike

 

[AppleScruff1]

No, not "exactly" at all. If you've never been audited or performed an audit, you might think so; you'd be wrong. While unscheduled audits have their place, scheduled or short notice audits are quite effective. Basically auditors can go anywhere and look at anything, including your trash and locked file cabinets. Auditors are not easily deceived and the longer they are there the more they discover. The best approach is not to piss them off.

Keeping a second set of books does nothing in this case, as they are unlikely to keep alternate labor records because the burden of maintaining them is too great and you don't know what the auditors are going to ask for. Over 3-4 weeks the auditors will have plenty of time to explore all the facilities (including locked rooms, remote buildings), look at all the documents, and privately interview workers without oversight.

As I said, do a bit of reading on the subject and also take note that I did not imply that this is the case for Foxconn. And this is China, not the US.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

China is a communist country that oppresses it's people just like Cuba! People who work at these factories are for lack of better words "modern day slaves" and they work there because they have no better options, if they had better options they would not work locked away in a factory from their families far away for many months making peanuts. If their country/government offered them better options like we have in the US (as bad as things are here right now) they would not be slaves at these factories. I have deep respect for the Chinese people in general but no respect at all for those who explore them for their own self enrichment.

-Mike

I neither support nor condone the Chicom gov't, so get off your high horse. Contrary to what you may believe communist China is no more like communist Cuba anymore than democratic, free market U.S. is like democratic, free market India. You gotta get beyond the bumper stickers.

China is a force to be reckoned with, and not one that can be bullied or shamed into submission or contained. Basic Machiavellian principles require one to understand their enemy in order to conquer them by wit, not war. So please read some Orville Schell and learn up on Chinese culture and thinking so you don't sound like such a yahoo.

 

[koruki]

It's very easy to impress someone when you know they are coming! BTW, why doesn't some of these audit fools actually spend at least 1 full week eating/living/sleeping in the same facilities that these people live in? Don't expect anything negative to come out in the open about these audits. It's pure Politics and meant to make Apple look good. The truth is these factories are the equivalent of modern day slavery and people spend most of the year inside them and that is why they kill themselves because they can't even see their families and they are probably not allowed to communicate with them either or their families are too damn poor to be able to afford a computer, internet access or even a telephone.

-Mike

Yes I sure they are waiting to pour the buckets of dirt all over the factory as soon as the inspectors leave. If an approved independent party coming in to inspect is still not enough what more do you whiners want?

 

[i.mac]

China is a communist country that oppresses it's people just like Cuba! People who work at these factories are for lack of better words "modern day slaves" and they work there because they have no better options, if they had better options they would not work locked away in a factory from their families far away for many months making peanuts. If their country/government offered them better options like we have in the US (as bad as things are here right now) they would not be slaves at these factories. I have deep respect for the Chinese people in general but no respect at all for those who explore them for their own self enrichment.

-Mike

What on earth do you know about Cuba? Have you lived there? Were you oppressed in labor camp in Cuba?

China is a totalitarian capitalist regime with nothing to do with what Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels had to say about communism. In fact, China today is similar to what some GOP lunatics want to implement in this old USA, where independent thinking is labeled as 'unpatriotic'.

But I digress.

 

[johnpaul191]

While it is encouraging to see americans worried about worker rights, and to see an american company go to such great lengths to improve working conditions at its plants in china, I find it baffling that the working conditions of Foxconn employees working on Apple products in China has resulted in public outrage across the country while our food is being picked by people in far greater oppression (often literal slavery) right here in our own country.

Where is the national news coverage and public outrage about farm worker working conditions in the United States?

Good point.
I also find it ironic when the people yelling about Apple (meaning Foxconn) are wearing Nike shoes and Diesel jeans.

 

[Will do good]

China is a communist country that oppresses it's people just like Cuba! People who work at these factories are for lack of better words "modern day slaves" and they work there because they have no better options, if they had better options they would not work locked away in a factory from their families far away for many months making peanuts. If their country/government offered them better options like we have in the US (as bad as things are here right now) they would not be slaves at these factories. I have deep respect for the Chinese people in general but no respect at all for those who explore them for their own self enrichment.

-Mike

Based on your reply, I can say the same thing for factory/service worker, oil workers etc. in the US and everywhere else. Who the hell want to do those jobs if there are better options? You sounded like an American grew up in the upper middle class family and read lots of books but don't know what the real world is like. What you want is the ideal "Communist" world where we are all equal and no one suffers. Well, that's not going to happen. - From someone who escaped from a communist country.

 

[hchung]

The over-arching issue here is this: Why do we continue to allow imports of foreign goods with lesser labor standards than we have here(in the US). Whether it's morally or economically, one way or another we are shooting ourselves in the foot.

In general?

1) Because it's typically cheaper that way.
2) Because it might not be manufactured in a first world country anymore, so there's no choice.
3) Because we can't bring manufacturing to a first world country because there's no workers who would be willing to work for so little wages.
4) Because raising prices in order to pay workers more would typically put you out of business because you can't compete.
5) Because sourcing the raw materials is easier in China.
6) Because the time and money to build and ramp up a new factory in the US might already be enough to put some smaller companies at risk.

There's many reasons. But it's not like Apple or anybody else can wave a magic wand or corporate checkbook and suddenly make things better. The only thing that can be done and is being done is to slowly change the status quo.

Those who don't understand, like mikefla, they'll continue to spew nonsense.

Those who do understand, one of the first steps is to find out which products are made in high standards AND BUY THEM. You're not going to be able to find such items for everything, but there ought to be some categories where it's easier. Afterall, this is how buying local and organic food movements took off.

Want an example? For the last 2 years, every time I go buy tools, I look for made in US, Germany, or Japan. Yeah, it sucks to pay $40 for a set of less than 10 screwdrivers. But at the least, they'll last longer and (when possible) support the US.

 

[daxomni]

Good point. I also find it ironic when the people yelling about Apple (meaning Foxconn) are wearing Nike shoes and Diesel jeans.

Wow! Can I have a chance to try out your new i-ray specs? They sound like they'd work great for viewing a world full of phoney irony.