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Fallout From Apple's Exclusion of Flash-to-iPhone Export Continues

Adobe needs to stop whining and start doing what they do well. Development tools for web creation (in this case HTML5/javascript) and other great creativity tools.

There was a video example of an app created with Adobe's flash compiler and the app seemed ok, but it had a "dialog box" that looked completely different than the host operating systems that it was demo'd on. It was some green box with buttons - looked the same on Windows, OS/X, Android, iPhone and iPad.

I want my OS/X apps to look and behave like OS/X, iPad apps to look and behave like iPad apps. Apparently Apple feels the same way.
 
Aldaris said:
Classic...

Apart from that, how long until microsoft, or palm jet off and start the "they're hurting our business, make them stop"...

Okay so Apple is abandoning flash, they have the right to do that it's their hardware... c'mon.

And I'm sick of the flash sites bringing down my equipment to a crawl... ughhh, I'm ready for a flash-less computing experience.:cool:
Click to expand...

Then by all means turn off flash and allow those of us who have a computer built after 2000 which has zero problems with flash to enjoy our content.
 
kdarling said:
The whole internet is abuzz because the intent _has_ obviously changed. This is clear to any developer.

Translation layers were never targeted before. That's why there have been more and more of them. Any knowledgable developer knows this.
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Nonsense. Read this rejection from the middle of 2009, and the cited sections of last years SDK agreement:


http://nachbaur.com/blog/open-letter-to-apple-iphone-developer-support
" Upon review of your application, cannot be posted to the
App Store due to the usage of private API. Usage of such non-public
API, as outlined in the iPhone SDK Agreement section 3.3.2 is
prohibited:

” An Application may not itself install or launch other executable
code by any means, including without limitation through use of a plug-
in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise.
No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application
except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple’s Published APIs
and built-in interpreter(s).

The PhoneGap API implemented in your application is an external
framework."

To the non imbecile population, the SDK message was clear and obvious. Only native development. Frameworks/interpreters/third party APIs were already off limits before the SDK update.

The people complaining today were never familiar with the previous SDK, or are playing willfully ignorant to stir things up.
 
This just in: Adobe says suck it Apple, no more professional content apps for you; Photoshop users and CS4 design professionals said to be distraught. ... Okay, not really. But this is a pretty big issue and a messy divorce even as a distant possibility makes me cringe. It's already ugly for users: Professional photography portfolios are largely flash based. That people can't view those sites on iPhone or iPad isn't so great for many who now have websites that can't be viewed on Apple products (thanks Apple).

This seems like a control issue for Apple. Apple has always had that to some degree with it's hardware-software integrated model, down to being the gatekeeper in recent days for Apps. But Flash is well established, widely used, to the point that actively blocking it diminishes the web experience for its users. Apple knows that Adobe depends on its software running on Macs at this point and has limited negotiating leverage, but it seems there will be a breaking point where Adobe will decide that Apple appears to be intent on occupying the space where Adobe has done business to date. I'm not keen on that.
 
monke said:
"Apple has timed this purposely to hurt sales of CS5"

To be honest, I hope Adobe's CS5 sales are terrible. They need to start offering more updates to fix problems, then revamp the entire suite on updates. All they're doing is modifying the UI a touch, adding one or two features, and calling it a new suite...
Click to expand...

I agree. And to speed up their development process they need to abandon Mac platform and concentrate on Windows.
 
Azmordean said:
You apple fanboys DO NOT GET IT. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FLASH IN A WEB BROWSER. It is about programming languages. Right now, I have several choices of how to write an iPhone app.

1) Code it in xCode on a Mac in Object-C and compile for iPhone.
2) Code it in Visual Studio .NET in say C# and compile it for iPhone using a translation layer (like Mono?).
3) Code it in Flash and compile it for iPhone using a translation layer (Adobe CS5)

and so on.

ALL OF THESE produce native iPhone APPLICATIONS. None of them have anything whatsoever to do with Flash web sites.

Apple has now said 1 is the ONLY option for creating iPhone apps. 2, 3, and any other related options no longer exist. That is why Apple is full of s*** on this move. And frankly, if it's technologically required, then their technology sucks. So long as an app compiles to a native iPhone app, they should not care what language it's programmed in.
Click to expand...


Do not expect the fanboys to understand logic.
Right now apple can get away with this BS but when they lose the top dog spot they will pay a heavy price. Right now they have the iPod touch and iPhone going for them in apps but right now we are seeing Android really take off, Palm OS is pretty good as an OS and hopefully RIM will get a good dev OS off the ground but the biggest threat will be android.

Apple blocks a lot of cross platform choices. Flash, C#, .Net option 2 and 3) have a lot of cross platform support and quickly can redo an app to work on another platform by just recompiling the code.

Apple could easily be bitting the hand that feeds them. Apple is a master at burning bridges that much we have history to prove to us and when they loss the power house spot which will happen they are screwed. The my way or the highway attitude does not make you friend.
 
epirali said:
IF ADOBE COULD GENERATE lean code from the scripting why wouldn't the flash player itself be a lean and mean runtime environment?
Click to expand...

Well, I won't argue for the Mac Flash player being evidence of Adobe's coding skills (although in fairness it's actually pretty solid on Windows), but that's basically irrelevant. Flash is written in ActionScript, which is essentially Javascript with a different DOM. There's nothing that prevents compiled Javascript code from being lean, efficient, and not interfering with multitasking (something I'm still convinced is a red herring).

Likewise, there's nothing inherent in Objective-C that makes it impossible to write badly-behaving bloated apps with terrible performance. You can write bad code in any language.
 
Winni said:
I disagree with both of your thoughts because you are talking about completely different things that have NOTHING to do with the iPhone SDK and those new restrictions.

If I wrote an application in, let's say, FreePascal, which is as much as purely compiled language as C or C++, I would not be allowed to publish it on the iPhone anymore.
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As well it should be. The foundation for iPhone programming is provided by Apple as a great foundation that makes coding a snap. Yet you still have the power of C behind it if you need to go deeper. Pascal cannot use that foundation, and it is that foundation that gives all apps the critical standard look that users want.

Nobody is forcing anyone to code for the iPhone. But if you do want to, there are standards to follow. Apple makes it very easy to do so. They give you tremendous resources. But that means you cannot use whatever language you want.
 
When is this finally going to be turned into a reality TV show? Seems like the constant developments here would keep one entertained. :)
 
sgibson said:
HTML5 does not specify the format for video. Using H.264 is completely complying with the HTML5 specification and, as an aside, has much better performance.
Click to expand...

WRONG.

The first HTML5 specifications defined that HTML5 video tag must work with OGG formats ("User agents should support Ogg Theora video and Ogg Vorbis audio, as well as the Ogg container format.") It was Apple that forced the W3C to change this.

Here is the email from Apple's Maciej Stachowiak:

http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-March/010392.html

"We think it is a mistake to require Ogg support, even as a SHOULD-level requirement."
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

I agree that the industry needs to move forward; and not backwards. Patching old dated software as a way 'staying in the game' would not represent a good pay-off for Adobe. As one of the strongest proponents of HTML5; Apple have done the right thing by maintaining app quality & user experience, and propelling the industry forward in the use of standardized technologies.
 
Bah, flash sucked from the start anyway. Adobe is clinging on too hard.

Oddly enough I've not visited a web page on my iPhone in the last two plus years that uses flash. Where's flash used anyway?
 
It's always the same, these fights over standards. I'm a user and developer and I just want to create. The Mac always was the Adobe platform of choice, from both sides. Hopefully both parties stay strong. I wouldn't like to see Adobe pull the plug on the Mac platform completely...or some bigger fish (MSoft...ADesk...) eats them...:D
 
Rivix said:
I just wish apple would work more on... osx...
Click to expand...

Oh come on, Snow Leopard wasn't that long ago at all. :p

Personally, I don't see why someone would want to make an iPhone app out of Flash. It seems like it would be extremely buggy and wouldn't really gain anything out of it. And it makes sense that it would eventually conflict with something like multitasking, and makes sense as well that Apple would block the project if it is just going to make the iPhone look bad.

People need to stop over-reacting here. I thought video game fanboys were bad, but holy Christ, Apple fans can't stop bitching about the most worthless things.
 
NebulaClash said:
Yet.

The problem with going with a propriety solution that your users depend on is that vendor can one day pull a Microsoft on you. It makes no difference what current management does or says; a new CEO can come along and make your life difficult.
...
Click to expand...

Actually, replace the word Microsoft with Apple. Because that is what Apple is doing, they have decided to lock things down - just like the app store and the totalitarian decision on what stays and what goes. Now they are changing their policy and saying you can only use the tools they decide you can use. This isn't open development.

Again, as I stated before, I am no Flash fan, but I think Apple is out-of-line here.

Also, I myself am worried, if a war breaks out with Adobe and Apple. I mean what if Adobe just dropped support for Apple or gave us half-assed versions of their software?

I mean I still remembering being in shock at a Photoshop conference when Bert Monroy laid the bomb and said he had switched to a PC, because Photoshop lacked the features he needed on the mac. Ouch!

Seriously, I would have to switch myself if there would not be any further Adobe programs for the mac.
 
Hope they make up soon!

I choose to (and love to) use my Mac, but I HAVE TO use adobe products. Don't make me choose.
 
zacman said:
WRONG.

The first HTML5 specifications defined that HTML5 video tag must work with OGG formats ("User agents should support Ogg Theora video and Ogg Vorbis audio, as well as the Ogg container format.") It was Apple that forced the W3C to change this.
Click to expand...

So you are admitting his statement is true, just that it wasn't true years ago under other circumstances that no longer apply to anything.
 
Great Dave said:
Actually, replace the word Microsoft with Apple. Because that is what Apple is doing, they have decided to lock things down - just like the app store and the totalitarian decision on what stays and what goes. Now they are changing their policy and saying you can only use the tools they decide you can use. This isn't open development.

Again, as I stated before, I am no Flash fan, but I think Apple is out-of-line here.

Also, I myself am worried, if a war breaks out with Adobe and Apple. I mean what if Adobe just dropped support for Apple or gave us half-assed versions of their software?

I mean I still remembering being in shock at a Photoshop conference when Bert Monroy laid the bomb and said he had switched to a PC, because Photoshop lacked the features he needed on the mac. Ouch!

Seriously, I would have to switch myself if there would not be any further Adobe programs for the mac.
Click to expand...

I hear you, but I don't see the danger yet. I see it with Microsoft through every fibre of their corporate being, but with Apple I see restrictions that make sense to me.

Some people hate the idea of living in a gated community. I don't mind it.
 
99.9% of people who use Macs use it for desktop publishing and some graphic editing. For everything else people use Windows.

Apple what are u going to do with no Photoshop or Creative suite for Mac? Creative Suite for Windows is superior to the Mac version anyway.

I hope Apple loses this battle.

Apple has 2 things keeping it's OS alive---MS Office and Adobe Creative suite--even though the Windows version of both is King!
 
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