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Farewell Message

This is... still going? Huh... Well, I may as well take some time to clarify my opinion since it was previously bashed.

No, leaking important information about Apple is not legal, nor is it risk-free. However, this website is MacRumors. As in, a website where leaks are crucial for it to exist. If leaks and rumors and photos of prototypes didn't exist at all, this site would slowly fizzle out because rumors are the main theme here.

So, I think that the OP is a good person, and what they did was reckless, not wrong. It is appreciated when people leak things. This person happened to go a little overboard with it. But, what they did was not a total and definite no-no. Had they leaked less information, and not gotten caught, then people would continue to praise their actions and value them as an asset to this site. It has to be at least a little unfair to people to shift from "You're the best! Thanks for the leaks!" to "You are so irresponsible! You had it coming!" instantly.

And then there's the issue of if the OP or the sister should be attacked. My opinion on that: neither. There isn't enough information to rule that one person here is worse than the other. This also means that neither of them are bad. If the sister was feeding the information to the OP deliberately, the sister would be painted as the evildoer and the OP safeguarded from any complaints. If OP was stealing information from the sister via eavesdropping or reading private notes, then the roles would reverse.

But even if one of them was obviously "at fault", I wouldn't hate them an ounce. The contributions that this account made, in my eyes, safeguard any and all parties from public sanction. But, I'm not the public, I'm part of it. So feel free to disagree.
 
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Mockletoy said:
It’s a bit rich, watching all these high-and-mighty bastions of moral virtue preach about how the OP did a bad thing and now is getting exactly what he or she had coming.

Really? In the MacRumors forums, of all places? The very same MacRumors that lives and dies by scrounging up and posting (and reposting) every little scrap of anything that leaks out of Cupertino? So folks come here hungry for the information these leakers provide, creating the very demand they are supplying, and then tsk-tsk-tsk about how icky and immoral the leakers are when they get caught? Really?

It’s like watching a bunch of strung-out junkies celebrate the arrest and punishment of their dealer … right before they shamble off to start looking for their next fix.
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Is any of the “usual leakers” ever going to get shut down by apple? These people aren’t putting their jobs and life on the line by promulgating rumors. Not only that they are probably smart enough to sanitize the information before release. I would think those who get their info from an apple insider are playing a dangerous game. Those who get their info from moles buried deep within the supplier chain not so much.
 
yaxomoxay said:
Breaking an agreement that was signed and executed by two or more competent and free parties IS wrong by definition. The sister probably broke enough NDA and enough anti-espionage agreements between her and apple that I’d be surprised if she can survive this.
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By "wrong" I mean going against this websites purpose. I already stated it wasn't legal and was risky
 
floral said:
By "wrong" I mean going against this websites purpose. I already stated it wasn't legal and was risky
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Respectfully, I still disagree. It seems that she was involved in pre-production development on secret features, and yet she kept leaking the info.

For me a rumor is a 3rd party employee that sees a button and makes a statement. Or someone that at the end of the dev cycle gets in possession of a blueprint for cases. That’s a leak. It shouldn’t happen, but it’s unavoidable and the 3rd party responsibility is minor. An actual Apple employee that keeps leaking internal info to publish it in twitter is on another plane and planet.
 
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yaxomoxay said:
Respectfully, I still disagree. It seems that she was involved in pre-production development on secret features, and yet she kept leaking the info.

For me a rumor is a 3rd party employee that sees a button and makes a statement. Or someone that at the end of the dev cycle gets in possession of a blueprint for cases. That’s a leak. It shouldn’t happen, but it’s unavoidable and the 3rd party responsibility is minor. An actual Apple employee that keeps leaking internal info to publish it in twitter is on another plane and planet.
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Okay, you can disagree.
 
yaxomoxay said:
Breaking an agreement that was signed and executed by two or more competent and free parties IS wrong by definition. The sister probably broke enough NDA’s and enough anti-espionage agreements between her and apple that I’d be surprised if she can survive this.
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It’ll be pretty easy for Apple to prove damages, based on previous similar cases.

At minimum, Apple will win the claim that the marketing work product belongs to them. Apple has the right to market iOS 17 the way they see fit. As a trillion dollar company, there are also big losses associated with social media monetization that Apple would have gained by being first to unveil.
 
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ericwn said:
The OP should give that same lighten up response to Apple and their lawyers.
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I'm mainly just irked by the attitudes of some of the posters here.

Yes OP was reckless and went too far clout chasing. Clearly he's inexperienced as you can tell from the things he admitted in this farewell post. But I don't know him personally and don't really care. I'm not judging him harshly or condemning him like some others here. I'm just here for the leaks, and that he provided tons of. If only he was more careful and smarter about what to post, he wouldn't have gotten caught.
 
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gwhizkids said:
I suspect something like what you describe is what happened (if it happened). The other possibility is that the leaker WAS the employee and invented the sister to try to throw them off his (and he would have to be a man) scent.
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This was my first thought I had after we saw this post copied. That we are still be subjected to misdirection. All you can do with this thread is accept how he appears to want to end this and go on. We didn't expect any of this to be facts put under a spotlight. Rather some vagueness to close this controversy.

c116933050a3f6e0f3de184794d53700.jpg
 
gwhizkids said:
Apple will have no difficulty whatsoever in establishing damages. Moreover, there may be a liquidated damages clause in the employee’s NDA.

Finally, there are ways of getting it out there that the employee was terminated due to failure to adhere to the terms of the NDA. Not saying that no one in Silicon Valley will hire her again (engineers are a scarce and, thus, highly prized commodity) but it may be difficult, especially for a few years.

Trust is hard to rebuild.
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How does one measure the financial loss? The case about the NDA is pretty clear but measurable loss?
 
phrehdd said:
How does one measure the financial loss? The case about the NDA is pretty clear but measurable loss?
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The court will be provided estimates based on expert testimony. It comes down to whose experts are more credible - plaintiff or defendant. With a $1B annual legal budget, I'd bet on Apple's side. It's similar to cases where the plaintiff proves loss due to suffering or disability.
 
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JPack said:
The court will be provided estimates based on expert testimony. It comes down to whose experts are more credible - plaintiff or defendant. With a $1B annual legal budget, I'd bet on Apple's side. It's similar to cases where the plaintiff proves loss due to suffering or disability.
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Given that this is all hearsay and nothing has been published out in the news, don't you think anything long the lines of financial impact is just continuing to discuss this without any facts as this whole story is? ;)
 
Realityck said:
Given that this is all hearsay and nothing has been published out in the news, don't you think anything long the lines of financial impact is just continuing to discuss this without any facts as this whole story is? ;)
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Of course, we could have all been Rick-rolled. But I don't think any of us mind. That's why we keep replying in these forums, isn't it? :)
 
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9to5mac.com

Leaker claims Apple used 'multi-step sting' operation to identify and fire their source ahead of WWDC - 9to5Mac

Over the last several months, a new “leaker” emerged on Twitter claiming to know a broad range of details about...
9to5mac.com 9to5mac.com

Whether or not this story from Analyst941 is true is unclear, and we’ll likely never know for sure. That being said, there are a few things to consider. First, at least one of the account’s claims was partially corroborated by other sources – a revamped watchOS 10 interfacewith a focus on easier access to pieces of information.

Second, the source seemingly knew that Apple was actively working on bringing Final Cut Pro to iPad – they just had the incorrect timeline.

Finally, the source almost exclusively “leaked” information that was clearly traced to software development. While they did share certain “hardware” features, these were all things that would also have a software component.


To me, this entire story reeks of lies and saving face. Still, it’s interesting to think about how seriously Apple takes leaks that come from inside the company. In the case of iPhone rumors, most leaks come from Apple’s vast supply chain. That’s why the iPhone 14 Pro’s Dynamic Island didn’t leak until right before its announcement.

Software leaks, however, are easier for Apple to track and monitor. If this story from Analyst941 is true, it’s just the latest example of Apple’s skillful ability to do just that. If not, the account is gone and we can move on to rumors from more established sources. And of course, WWDC itself is less than a month away, which will further reveal just how much Analyst941 knew about Apple’s plans.
 
yaxomoxay said:
Did he use the same handle on Twitter? If not, I disagree with your point as on MR he would be just a user listing what he heard from somewhere. This very specific post links him to his sister, while his other posts don’t.
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It doesn’t at all matter if they used the same handle on Twitter; Apple is likely already well aware of the existence of both accounts, and it either has the information it needs or can get it. Deleting them or any of the content won’t help at this point. The internet is forever.
 
JPack said:
The court will be provided estimates based on expert testimony. It comes down to whose experts are more credible - plaintiff or defendant. With a $1B annual legal budget, I'd bet on Apple's side. It's similar to cases where the plaintiff proves loss due to suffering or disability.
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First, thanks for the response. I admit I am unsure how one measures loss based on potential sales or creating a competitive edge for competing companies sharing the same product space. Unless one sees a competitor coming up with a counterpart that can be proven to have been inspired, it is unclear this "loss" can be measured. It is somewhat a guesstimate. Seems punitive damages would be more in order based on NDA being broken and since no profit is shown, then hard to collect on that. Obviously I am no lawyer nor have a keen grasp on the law.
 
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phrehdd said:
how one measures loss based on potential sales or creating a competitive edge for competing companies sharing the same product space
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This sort of estimation is well-established with legal and business professionals, with a long tradition in investment banking and consulting interviews of making applicants follow the basic steps in real time.

I would write more but this is a good summary of how it works:

How many gas stations are there in the U.S.?​

Example answer: "First, I must assume that there are roughly 300 million residents in the United States. Next, I need to estimate how many of these people have cars. Let's say there are approximately 200 million residents with a vehicle. Given that a gas station can accommodate roughly eight vehicles at a time, I can only assume there are roughly 25 million gas stations in the United States. This doesn't account for anyone with a motorcycle or other form of transportation that doesn't require gas."



For the purposes of this thread, one could start with the most recent annual sales figures of the product affected by the leak, work through how many purchases might have been postponed and cancelled due to the premature release of information, and make a calculation of the benefits to competitors of obtaining proprietary information using R&D, intellectual property, and marketing values.
 
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phrehdd said:
First, thanks for the response. I admit I am unsure how one measures loss based on potential sales or creating a competitive edge for competing companies sharing the same product space. Unless one sees a competitor coming up with a counterpart that can be proven to have been inspired, it is unclear this "loss" can be measured. It is somewhat a guesstimate. Seems punitive damages would be more in order based on NDA being broken and since no profit is shown, then hard to collect on that. Obviously I am no lawyer nor have a keen grasp on the law.
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I mentioned earlier at minimum, Apple can claim they own the right to market iOS 17 the way they want. With 17 million followers on YouTube alone, they have measurable monetization on social media. Apple can offer a loss estimate based on the various YouTube videos produced using this leaked info.

In terms of sales, Apple can hire a survey company and ask, "based on rumors, iOS 17 will offer performance and stability improvements for older devices, would you be more or less likely to upgrade your iPhone?" Apple can definitely estimate loss here.
 
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anonymous-A.S said:
Hello everyone.

This is my final message to everyone.

I will no longer be around, but you deserve a proper goodbye. I don’t want to share too many details right now because of the legality of things — but a multi-step sting has gotten my sister fired from Apple, and unfortunately I am afraid next is legal action being taken against both of us, separately.

I can’t believe I did this, I’m so sorry to my sister and Apple as a whole. I don’t know what else to say. I know she is destroyed, she also hates me right now, like I don’t even know that I have a sister anymore.

I don’t know if I even have a life beyond this, I don’t know what can happen at this point.

I enjoyed the ride, to any body out there who gets a source, keep the details at a minimum. It could be costly.

The breaking point was multiple, if not almost all who knew about FCP/Logic iPad development was given a unique combination of release dates — unfortunately the combination I shared on Twitter matched the combination given to my sister as the FCP+Logic timeframe, along with other small factors.

I may have shared too much here regarding this situation already, but goodbye. Thanks for taking the time to meet me. Learn from me and don’t let it happen to you or anyone you love.

My PGP key is on my MacRumors posts. Please save it if you ever want to contact me in the future. I will be deleting this account within 24 hours for my safety.

-941
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You needed to be more careful.
 
KaliYoni said:
This sort of estimation is well-established with legal and business professionals, with a long tradition in investment banking and consulting interviews of making applicants follow the basic steps in real time.
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The famous Johnny Depp v Amber Heard trial had many several expert witnesses that talked about damages (how much Depp might’ve lost due to contracts not being renewed). They were used as the basis for the damages Ms Heard will have to pay.
 
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